Legalise some drugs, outlaw others?

[DB008]

I think I've done my dough on this thread.

Unless something happens in the near future (ie, Medical Marijuana, further relaxation of the laws or decriminalisation), I'll leave this.

‘War on drugs a lost cause’

By Luis Feliu

The Australian Crime Commission’s (ACC) Illicit Drug Data Report says a record number of illicit drugs was seized in 2010–11. The bulk of that, or more than 70 per cent, was cannabis, which accounted for 70 per cent of all arrests.

...

‘What an incredible waste of police resources. Chasing a herb that has been used for as long as human records exist and still never managed to kill anyone – unlike the war declared on it.

http://echonetdaily.echo.net.au/crime-data-back-drug-reform-call/

• Australian Crime Commission Website (Link here)
  
  Report by Chapter Index
• Link to relevant data (here)
  
• http://www.crimecommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/files/IDDR/2010-11/iddr-2010-11-cannabis.pdf

(Screen Shot from Report)

 

[Sean K]

This is pretty much as expected. Drug does less harm to people and society than alcohol, and many others, yet it lands you in jail.

Dancing with Molly
December 4, 2012
Eileen Ormsby

Health experts say it is less harmful than alcohol, so why is ecstasy illegal?

HAVE you seen Molly? She makes me want to dance. The posters plastered on walls around Melbourne are often met with a nudge and a wink by club goers. "Molly" is the slang term for MDMA, better known as ecstasy. And it makes a great number of Australians want to get on the dance floor.

Taken mainly as a party drug, ecstasy causes the user to be more energetic and alert. It lowers aggression and anxiety, leads to euphoria and creates increased empathy and a sense of intimacy with others. According to a 2010 government report, one in 10 Australians over age 14 has used it, the highest per capita rate in the world.

At first glance, this seems alarming – hundreds of thousands of people using a drug that carries the same classification as heroin or crystal meth. But is this alarm warranted? If ecstasy were a legal and available alternative to alcohol, would the social and moral and health consequences be cause for concern?


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dancing-with-molly-20121203-2ar04.html#ixzz2E1Kg2Ryi

 

[prawn_86]

Great artivle kennas. Particularly love the quote:

"these issues have no credibility among young people when we preach about them on moral grounds".

I know of a lot of people who enjoy MDMA and know it doesnt harm society in anyway (except by supporting organised crime) so don't view it as bad or illegal. How can somehting with no recorded fatalities (pure MDMA) be considered worse than alcohol or other illegal drugs?

If drugs policy was based on scientific evidence then you would have a much more open debate

 

[DB008]

Ireland

THE legal use of cannabis in medicines is to be introduced next year.

The Irish Independent has learned that the Department of Health is bringing in legislation to legalise medicinal cannabis.

The move follows applications from drugs companies to sell cannabis-based medicines in Ireland.

However, a spokesperson for the department stressed that the change would not apply to recreational use of the drug.

Many countries allow medicinal cannabis for the treatment of illnesses such as multiple sclerosis.

Irish law rules out even medicinal cannabis, except for research, but the Government has taken a different approach from the previous administration, when former health minister Mary Harney was reluctant to loosen controls.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/medicinal-cannabis-available-here-in-the-next-year-3311517.html

 

[Julia]

"7.30" this evening - report on how dealing via online drug site "The Silk Road" is flourishing.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3648415.htm

Sounds fantastic for drug fans, but how do they know what they're actually consuming?
I suppose the same question is valid for local purchases.

There seems to be a very cavalier attitude toward the potential harm of consuming god knows what.

 

[DB008]

"7.30" this evening - report on how dealing via online drug site "The Silk Road" is flourishing.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3648415.htm

Sounds fantastic for drug fans, but how do they know what they're actually consuming?
I suppose the same question is valid for local purchases.

There seems to be a very cavalier attitude toward the potential harm of consuming god knows what.

Julia, this stuff is related to the PM I sent you some time ago, re; Silk Road.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-05/dark-internet-linked-to-drug-seizure-spike/4410872

To protect its illegal trade, the site uses complex masking software and money exchanges.

Users have to download an encryption network, and the only money allowed is Bitcoin - an online currency that also hides purchasers' identities.

Computer expert Chris McDonald is not a Silk Road user but has studied the technology behind it and believes it is unbeatable.

"We're talking about tens of thousands, if not millions of years to break into these algorithms," he said.

"So for a small piece of data we have the traditional problem where if you spend more effort trying to break into an encrypted piece of data, then by the time you've successfully broken into the data, the data itself has no value."

Silk Road is only able to be visited by using the TOR browser.
(TOR browser)
...and the address for silk road, l'm sure you can work the rest out....

Funny how these guys who are part of the TOR network and onion, are also Assange supporters.

 

[prawn_86]

Sounds fantastic for drug fans, but how do they know what they're actually consuming?
I suppose the same question is valid for local purchases.

There seems to be a very cavalier attitude toward the potential harm of consuming god knows what.

My understanding is that it has an ebay style feedback rating for sellers. There are quite a few articles online about it if you have a search around.

Basically if a seller was to sell dodgy goods then they would receive negative feedback and people would no longer buy from them. Obviously there would be some fraud etc due to anonymous nature of the whole system.

To me it seems safer than buying it off some random guy that is a dealer for a friend of a friend of a friend and has no accountability or intent for repeat business.

With regards to your second comment, if things were legalised then people wouldn't be consuming 'god knows what'

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Great artivle kennas. Particularly love the quote:


I know of a lot of people who enjoy MDMA and know it doesnt harm society in anyway (except by supporting organised crime) so don't view it as bad or illegal. How can somehting with no recorded fatalities (pure MDMA) be considered worse than alcohol or other illegal drugs?

If drugs policy was based on scientific evidence then you would have a much more open debate

I think if we were starting from scratch, we'd make alcohol illegal and MDMA legal (prescription only). It's much safer and less costly to society. But you can still come to grief with MDMA. When the brain and nervous system is flooded with serotonin, the body can overheat to the point of causing organ shut down and death. I know that doesn't happen frequently, but it's a drug and people respond very differently. Then how do you sell it when it's potentially lethal?

MDMA was used very successfully by a couple of psychiatrists in the US in the 80's (in session only - couples therapy). Maybe that's the way it should be used now - to fix broken relationships.


You can see this drug shouldn't be publicly available outside of prescription.
(from wikipedia)

Upon overdose, the potentially serious serotonin syndrome, stimulant psychosis, and/or hypertensive crisis, among other dangerous adverse reactions, may come to prominence, the symptoms of which can include the following:

Psychological
Disorientation and/or confusion
Anxiety, paranoia, and/or panic attacks
Hypervigilance or increased sensitivity to perceptual stimuli, accompanied by significantly increased threat detection
Hypomania or full-blown mania
Derealization and/or depersonalization
Hallucinations and/or delusions[34]
Thought disorder or disorganized thinking
Cognitive and memory impairment potentially to the point of retrograde or anterograde amnesia[35]
Acute delirium

Physiological
Myoclonus or involuntary and intense muscle twitching
Hyperreflexia or overresponsive or overreactive reflexes[36]
Tachypnoea or rapid breathing and/or dyspnea or shortness of breath
Palpitations or abnormal awareness of the beating of the heart
Angina pectoris or severe chest pain, as well as pulmonary hypertension (PH)[37]
Cardiac arrhythmia or abnormal electrical activity of the heart
Circulatory shock or cardiogenic shock
Vasculitis or destruction of blood vessels[38]
Cardiotoxicity or damage to the heart[39]
Cardiac dysfunction, arrest, myocardial infarction, and/or heart failure[40][41][42]
Hemorrhage and/or stroke[43][44]
Severe hyperthermia, potentially resulting in organ failure[45][46]
Syncope or fainting or loss of consciousness
Organ failure (as mentioned above)
Possible brain damage
Coma or death

 

[prawn_86]

When the brain and nervous system is flooded with serotonin, the body can overheat to the point of causing organ shut down and death. I know that doesn't happen frequently, but it's a drug and people respond very differently. Then how do you sell it when it's potentially lethal?

Do you know of any cases of this happening with pure MDMA? My understanding is that the above, and serotonin syndrome, occur when taking ecstacy and other other adulterants in the pill (caffeine, speed, pcp, piperazines etc) combine to create this over-heating

A lethal dose of MDMA is about 50 grams if i remember correctly, which would be impossible to consume unless done at once.

The above list of side affects could be given to just about any drug

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Do you know of any cases of this happening with pure MDMA? My understanding is that the above, and serotonin syndrome, occur when taking ecstacy and other other adulterants in the pill (caffeine, speed, pcp, piperazines etc) combine to create this over-heating

A lethal dose of MDMA is about 50 grams if i remember correctly, which would be impossible to consume unless done at once.

The above list of side affects could be given to just about any drug

I think it's quite rare, but the case of Anna Wood was very public when it happened. ( I know you're going to say it was the water, which is true, but was she trying to cool down an over-heated body?)

Most of those others drugs you mention don't increase serotonin levels directly... maybe PCP does, don't know enough about it.

Say it's legal. Now those 13 year old delinquents who pass out from alcohol binging on a weekend... they get onto this and their immature nervous systems don't cope.

edit: In general I'm in agreement that as far as mind altering drugs go, it's probably pretty harmless so long as it's pure, taken infrequently, and in the correct dosage.

 

[Tink]

I feel sorry for the emergency services having to put up with this daily - whether its legal or not, it would still be a problem.

 

[DB008]

Mariujana is now legal in Colorado and Washington, USA.

 

[Julia]

Mariujana is now legal in Colorado and Washington, USA.

With various conditions.

 

[DB008]

With various conditions.

Better than what we have here at the moment....

 

[McLovin]

( I know you're going to say it was the water, which is true, but was she trying to cool down an over-heated body?)

I think blaming ecstasy for overheating is like saying you died of hypothermia after getting drunk. They both affect body temperature but it's rare that that change causes death. The reality is that thousands of people do drugs every single weekend and there are few purely ecstasy related deaths. Go to a festival this Summer and see just how "healthy" drugs are. Something like cocaine is far, far worse for you.

Waste of money trying to stop people accessing drugs. The proof: We see all those high profile drug busts on TV and yet the street price hasn't changed in years. 12 years ago pills were $50 now they're $25-30. Cocaine was $300, now it's $300. How much of my tax money has been wasted in the interim?

 

[Sean K]

Rethinking our attitude to drugs

Focusing on health rather than criminality is the best way forward.

Michael Short
10 Dec 12

ILLICIT drugs are widely viewed with fear and loathing. Parents, in particular, are understandably terrified their children will become addicted to headline-grabbing horrors including heroin and methamphetamine and crack cocaine. Alcohol and other drugs are known to be extremely hazardous to the developing brains of young people.

The apprehension is endlessly fuelled by stereotypical images of dishevelled, desperate drug users roaming the streets.

While the fear of addiction is rational, the widespread demonisation of drug use is often hypocritical and borders on collective hysteria. The reality is that most people who use drugs - legal and illegal - do so recreationally and relatively safely.

The issue is further blurred by the arbitrary distinction between permitted and prohibited substances. This can create a false sense of security - for example, alcohol is legal, but can cause enormous damage.

Beyond that, the burgeoning misuse of, and trade in, prescribed drugs, particularly pain medications and tranquilisers, is potentially overtaking illicit drug misuse as a social and health concern.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/rethinking-our-attitude-to-drugs-20121209-2b3dn.html#ixzz2EaUbHdTc

 

[DB008]

Rethinking our attitude to drugs

Doesn't help when the media outlets are biased and skew their own articles for ratings.


Go to YouTube, and search for -

Drivers On Cannabis: Fox News Caught Faking Again

I would provide the link, but I'm in Hong Kong at the moment using a clapped out old mobile, lol.

 

[DB008]

WOW

Outrageous HSBC Settlement Proves the Drug War is a Joke

Breuer this week signed off on a settlement deal with the British banking giant HSBC that is the ultimate insult to every ordinary person who's ever had his life altered by a narcotics charge. Despite the fact that HSBC admitted to laundering billions of dollars for Colombian and Mexican drug cartels (among others) and violating a host of important banking laws (from the Bank Secrecy Act to the Trading With the Enemy Act), Breuer and his Justice Department elected not to pursue criminal prosecutions of the bank, opting instead for a "record" financial settlement of $1.9 billion, which as one analyst noted is about five weeks of income for the bank.

The banks' laundering transactions were so brazen that the NSA probably could have spotted them from space. Breuer admitted that drug dealers would sometimes come to HSBC's Mexican branches and "deposit hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, in a single day, into a single account, using boxes designed to fit the precise dimensions of the teller windows."

This bears repeating: in order to more efficiently move as much illegal money as possible into the "legitimate" banking institution HSBC, drug dealers specifically designed boxes to fit through the bank's teller windows. Tony Montana's henchmen marching dufflebags of cash into the fictional "American City Bank" in Miami was actually more subtle than what the cartels were doing when they washed their cash through one of Britain's most storied financial institutions.


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213#ixzz2F1gwYP1f

 

[DB008]

It's like the Berlin Wall over in the USA regarding marijuana prohibition....

The Next Seven States To Legalize Pot

Why Oregon, California and more are likely to follow Colorado and Washington toward legalization

The Berlin Wall of pot prohibition seems to be crumbling before our eyes.

By fully legalizing marijuana through direct democracy, Colorado and Washington have fundamentally changed the national conversation about cannabis. As many as 58 percent of Americans now believe marijuana should be legal. And our political establishment is catching on. Former president Jimmy Carter came out this month and endorsed taxed-and-regulated weed. "I'm in favor of it," Carter said. "I think it's OK." In a December 5th letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont) suggested it might be possible "to amend the Federal Controlled Substances Act to allow possession of up to one ounce of marijuana, at least in jurisdictions where it is legal under state law." Even President Obama hinted at a more flexible approach to prohibition, telling 20/20's Barbara Walters that the federal government was unlikely to crack down on recreational users in states where pot is legal, adding, "We've got bigger fish to fry."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...states-to-legalize-pot-20121218#ixzz2FStHQAhs

 

[DB008]

Interesting

MDMA could be effective in treating post-traumatic stress disorder – study

Illegal drug commonly known as ecstasy reduces PTSD symptoms, doesn't harm memory and concentration, or induce drug abuse, researchers find

MDMA (the illegal drug ecstasy) may provide long term benefits as a treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder, according to a study which looked at its use alongside psychotherapy.

The research was a follow up to an earlier study published last year in which a group of 12 patients with chronic treatment resistant PTSD were given MDMA, and compared with another group of eight patients who were not, during and after psychotherapeutic treatment for their PTSD.

The new paper, which is published in the Journal of Psychopharmacology, has followed up all but one of the original participants, up to six years after they were treated with MDMA. The researchers found that their PTSD symptoms remained reduced, they didn't go on to abuse drugs, and there was no harm to memory and concentration after the treatment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/dec/27/mdma-ecstasy-post-traumatic-stress-disorder