Legalise some drugs, outlaw others?

[Gringotts Bank]

I just saw one of the new season 'Two and Half Men' episodes. We've jumped the shark I'm afraid.

Charlie has definitely lost his Sheen. The show doesn't work without his confidence and charisma. I guess that's the cocaine. Hard to watch now.

 

[Sean K]

I just saw one of the new season 'Two and Half Men' episodes. We've jumped the shark I'm afraid.

Charlie has definitely lost his Sheen. The show doesn't work without his confidence and charisma. I guess that's the cocaine. Hard to watch now.

Haven't sheen it yet. Just watching re-runs. It was a funny show. With the added edge that you knew Charlie was playing Charlie.

He'll be back.

 

[bandicoot76]

like it or not people are going to use illicit drugs no matter what the law is, some people will try it then never touch it again, others will be occasional "social users" while there are always people with addictive natures who will become full blown addicts.
those of us who dont touch the sh*t will make no difference to this equation wether we dis-agree with drug use or not. while ever it remains illegal however, the huge amounts of money involved will fuel drug crime & violence. my thoughts are legalise all drugs BUT if the user's commit a crime under the influence of these drugs then when they go to court their sentance is automatically double that of someone 'clean' who committed the same crime, as a deterant.
wether or not its illegal, these drugs are already freely available in our community, my view is we have to manage the situation by incentives & deterants... mandatory tax levy for users to pre-pay health/medical expenses for the futue, non eligable for social security if mandatory weekly test is positive, increased pre-employment drug testing, increased premiums for insurance/rego, not eligable for drivers liscence, taking the profits away from manufacturers & dealers, just make it "not cool" and putting a financial sting on the users might be a way to combat it.
a blanket ban on it sure hasnt done anything positive except make the crims rich! abit like prohibition didnt stop ppl drinking only made the mob wealthy.

 

[Logique]

Yes I think you're on the right track Bandicoot.

I think tobacco provides the model.

Tobacco is a legal drug, but it's use is in decline, through strong public education campaigns, backed up with some govt regulation via smoke free areas.

 

[Logique]

Mexico, at the mercy of drug cartels, funded by Western desire, is on it's knees.
Something has to change.
The desire will not go away.
Nuevo Laredo police chief gunned down, Mexican authorities say
By Mariano Castillo, CNN
February 3, 2011 -- Updated 2146 GMT
(CNN) -- The director of public security in the border city of Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, was gunned down Wednesday night, officials said, though details of the incident remained scarce.
Gen. Manuel Farfan Carreola, who served as police chief, was shot near his office by unknown assailants, said Everardo Sanchez, a spokesman for Mexico's attorney general's office. He had been in the position since a new administration assumed city leadership on January 1...

Indeed K. I saw 'No Country For Old Men' the other night. All that murder and lawlessness for a case of white powder. Urgent policy change is required.

 

[Mofra]

a blanket ban on it sure hasnt done anything positive except make the crims rich! abit like prohibition didnt stop ppl drinking only made the mob wealthy.

... and the decriminalisation experience in other countries has shown a decline in usage rates, whilst government revenue from usage soured, and police resources can be diverted to actual crime prevention & investigation.

It seems so obvious - unfortunately we seem beset by an era of political cowardice so we can't expect real change anytime soon.

 

[DB008]

... and the decriminalisation experience in other countries has shown a decline in usage rates, whilst government revenue from usage soured, and police resources can be diverted to actual crime prevention & investigation.

It seems so obvious - unfortunately we seem beset by an era of political cowardice so we can't expect real change anytime soon.

This is the point that l was trying to make.
As bandicoot76 said,

like it or not people are going to use illicit drugs no matter what the law is, some people will try it then never touch it again, others will be occasional "social users" while there are always people with addictive natures who will become full blown addicts.
those of us who don't touch the sh*t will make no difference to this equation whether we dis-agree with drug use or not. while ever it remains illegal however, the huge amounts of money involved will fuel drug crime & violence. my thoughts are legalise all drugs

+1

Netherlands to close prisons for lack of criminals

The Dutch justice ministry has announced it will close eight prisons and cut 1,200 jobs in the prison system. A decline in crime has left many cells empty....

http://vorige.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals

 

[DB008]

From the UN website...

World Drug Report 2010

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/WDR-2010.html

Link to the PDF
http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_2010/Executive_summary.pdf
(Executive Summary ^17 pages PDF ~1.23mb)

 

[Timmy]

"We had a police officer shot in crossfire on a drug raid, and he went into a wheelchair for life, and I'm thinking, 'Wow, this guy's like this because he was trying to keep an addict from getting his heroin?' We had another cop killed in a buy-bust.... He shot him in the face. And this weighs on you, and you ask, 'What is the value of what we're doing?' "

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0617-lopez-drugs-20120617,0,7270973.column

Dead police officers.
Wheelchair-bound police officers.
Police officers shot in the face.

All to combat supply and demand?

 

[prawn_86]

Cant find the link, but last week one of Canada's highest health officials came out and tried to dispel some of the myths around ecstacy and pushed for legalisation of MDMA.

MDMA (which was originally the only active ingredient in ecstacy) is a very stable, pure chemical compound, and taken by itself in pure form, is virtually impossible to overdose on. There are no recorded fatalities from MDMA and every 'exstacy' death has been due to impure pills sold as ecstacy. If MDMA was available over the counter then one would assume no-one would die from tainted street ecstacy (even though the deaths are extremly low PA (less than 100 globally i think) anyway)

 

[DB008]

This will stir the pot...

Decriminalise cannabis, ecstasy to curb addiction: report

A national report into illicit drugs has recommended decriminalising ecstasy and cannabis under a government-controlled program to help curb addiction.

It comes as Australian Federal Police reveal there has been a massive increase in the amount of illegal drugs and criminal assets seized in the past year.

The 52-page report on alternatives to prohibition, by the Australia 21 group, was released in Adelaide today.

One of the report's proposals is to establish a government supplier for cannabis and ecstasy.

The drugs would be available to people over 16, who would then be supported by counselling and treatment programs.

The report also recommends similar programs for heroin and cannabis use.

Co-author Professor Bob Douglas says it is clear prohibition is not working, and Australia needs to have a serious debate about legalising controlled drug use.

"It's been a political benefit for people to pretend they're tough on drugs, but lots of politicians in Australia recognise now that this has to be changed," he said.

Professor Douglas says similar programs are being used in Europe with proven positive results.

He says criminal gangs have a monopoly on the black market, but a government regulated drug program could help to safely curb usage.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-09/decriminalise-drugs-to-curb-addiction-report/4251256

16 is too young to be taking pills (or any form of drugs)!

 

[Julia]

Yet another kite flying exercise from academe. Governments won't have a bar of it. It would be political suicide.

 

[Tink]

Is it working with alcohol and cigarettes?

The dutch are having their own problems with people flocking over the border.

 

[DB008]

Great article

ABC - The Drum - Australia's pointless and deadly drugs crackdown

Australia's crackdown on drugs has been pointless and devastating, writes Greg Barns. What are we trying to achieve?

Every weekend, thousands of young Australians take drugs when they go partying, clubbing or sit around chilling with their friends.

And every weekend, police around Australia try to do the impossible - clamp down on that use of those drugs with sniffer dogs, bag searches and other time-consuming methods.

While a handful of young people might be caught by police, the vast majority will not. For those who are caught, the consequences can be devastating.

Australia 21, a think tank headed by former Defence Department secretary Paul Barratt, yesterday released its second paper on drugs policy dealing with the issue of young people and drugs policy.

The subtitle of the paper Alternatives To Prohibition sums up the policy dilemma neatly: "Illicit drugs: How we can stop killing and criminalising young Australians."

The bottom line is, and it comes as no surprise to those of us who see drugs policy through rational and empirical eyes rather than via vision that is clouded by prejudice and fear, those countries which treat drugs usage as a health and social issue, rather than a criminal justice one, have more success in reducing drug overdoses, HIV and crime.

The Netherlands, Portugal and Switzerland are examples of the former approach; Sweden, the latter.

Dr João Goulão, a leading Portuguese drugs expert, says that a combined strategy of decriminalisation and a major investment in the health system have allowed Portugal to stem the growth of drugs in that country.

Fears that Portugal would become a drug trafficker's playground have not been borne out. Importantly, there is 70 per cent community support for the Portuguese policy settings, a consequence of the reforms being driven by a bottom-up approach rather than imposed by government without consultation.

The way in which drugs are viewed by a community is important in reducing the appeal to young people, as the Netherlands shows. Since the 1970s and 1980s, it has run a decriminalised policy in relation to cannabis. As the Australia 21 paper notes:

[Since] the mid-1980s, the Netherlands has reported declines in the number of drug-related problems including dependent opiate use, injection drug user-related HIV Infections and drug-induced deaths. For all drugs with the exception of ecstasy, reported use by Netherlands youth is below the European average.

In Switzerland, while drug use and possession has not been decriminalised, there has been two decades of policy focussed on health and harm-minimisation strategies which are strongly supported by the community.

By contrast, in Sweden, where a tough on drugs policy remains in place, drug usage and deaths from overdoses remain worryingly high, but even the law enforcement and welfare agencies are now working together with young people in a therapeutic way, because throwing the statute book at a young person simply does not work.

Australian drugs policy is still focussed on law enforcement and zero tolerance. When Australia 21 released its first paper in April, Prime Minister Julia Gillard dismissed it with a patronising line about drugs killing people and so forget about policy change.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4249070.html

 

[prawn_86]

It will take even more time, but i remmeber a few years ago articles like this wouldn't have even had a chance in the mainstream media. People are slowly opening their eyes at least. Now we just need politicians to take notice to their constituents (cause they do that so well... )

 

[DB008]

It will take even more time, but i remmeber a few years ago articles like this wouldn't have even had a chance in the mainstream media. People are slowly opening their eyes at least. Now we just need politicians to take notice to their constituents (cause they do that so well... )

As much as l would like to have some drugs legalised, it won't ever happen here in Australia (I hope l eat my words!)

 

[Tink]

I dont think it will be long before cigarettes go on the banning list the way its been going.

Did you see the imperial smoking company put the -- its whats on the inside that counts --- on their plain label packaging?
They will try every measure to get it through to their customers, was a good marketing ploy -- got them lots of advertising.

There is more than enough information out there regarding drugs, we dont need to legalise -- Mental Health is full -- my opinion.

 

[DB008]

Uruguay takes ‘war on drugs’ in new direction: state monopoly over the production and distribution of marijuana

Uruguay has long been at the vanguard of social reform in Latin America. Today, it is on the verge of passing into law one of its most radical ideas yet.

The Broad Front – the center-left coalition that holds power – is proposing a state monopoly over the production and distribution of marijuana, making Uruguay the first national government to sell cannabis directly to citizens. The government says the measure is necessary to combat rising drug-related crime, decrease health risks for users, and counter ineffective US policies on drugs. But within Uruguay, interest groups have labeled the legislation totalitarian, while some international bodies argue it breaches global conventions.

“We’re putting this forward as international policy,” says Sebastian Sabini, president of the parliamentary commission created to debate the bill. “The war on drugs has failed. There are more consumers and more violence.”

“Uruguay is opening up a new path,” he says.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/20/uruguay-takes-war-on-drugs-in-new-direction-state-monopoly-over-the-production-and-distribution-of-marijuana/

 

[ZergPrince]

Might as well legalise them all and let people make their own decisions no matter how stupid..


1rd post

hi guise!

 

[DB008]

Due to the underground drugs market and drug wars going on in South America, the Uruguay Government is trying to control/regulate the pot market, get some money out of it (tax on sales I guess) and stop the flow of money to the drug gangs. Oh, and they don't give a rats what the US thinks.

Uruguay's Drugs Policy: Regulating Market For Pot

Increasing drug use and narcotrafficking has made some Latin American countries among the most violent places on Earth. But tiny, progressive Uruguay, where it's always been legal to use marijuana, is leading the way with an alternative drug policy.

The government of President Jose Mujica has proposed a law that would put the state in charge of producing and selling marijuana to registered users.

In the capital Montevideo, Adrian Gonzaga and Felipe Castro have a business together and usually work outside installing fiber-optic cables. But on a recent stormy day, like almost everyone else in the city, they're taking the day off: having tea with friends, eating toast with strawberry jam and smoking a joint.

http://www.npr.org/2012/10/02/162092271/uruguays-drugs-policy-regulating-market-for-pot