Labor's carbon tax lie

[noco]

So what you are saying is Tony's right. It's just a great big tax on everything.

Just like putting up the G.S.T? without actually doing it.

I would much preferred to have had the GST raised to 12.5% or even 15%. At least one would know how much tax we are paying but of course the Labor Party does not have the fortitude to do it that way. They use the rhetoric that the carbon dioxide tax will reduce global warming and save the world that it is in the best interest of the Nation and WOOOORKING FAMLIES . YEAH YOU WILL ALL BE BETTER OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a lot of rot.

With the carbon dioxide tax we do not know how much extra it will add to the cost of living, bearing in mind there will be unscroupulous business who will take advantage of this impediment.

 

[Smurf1976]

The GST is a tax on consumption in Australia whereas the carbon tax is a tax on production in Australia.

The GST acts to reduce consumption, since consumers can afford to buy less after paying the tax.

The carbon tax acts to reduce production, since it becomes relatively more expensive to produce in Australia thus encouraging relocation offshore.

One hits consumers' wallets in a moderate fashion, 10% to be precise.

The other devastates Australian industry by further tilting the "level playing field" against local industry and in favour of production overseas. Hence why the USA and others don't want a bar of it.

 

[drsmith]

I would much preferred to have had the GST raised to 12.5% or even 15%.

To me, governments should have to justify any rise in any tax.

With the GST, any reform should focus on broadening the base before modifying the rate.

 

[drsmith]

The other devastates Australian industry by further tilting the "level playing field" against local industry and in favour of production overseas. Hence why the USA and others don't want a bar of it.

And there's Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan giving the Europeans a lecture on economics.

Their words will come back to haunt them, and us.

 

[sptrawler]

The GST is a tax on consumption in Australia whereas the carbon tax is a tax on production in Australia.

The GST acts to reduce consumption, since consumers can afford to buy less after paying the tax.

The carbon tax acts to reduce production, since it becomes relatively more expensive to produce in Australia thus encouraging relocation offshore.

One hits consumers' wallets in a moderate fashion, 10% to be precise.

The other devastates Australian industry by further tilting the "level playing field" against local industry and in favour of production overseas. Hence why the USA and others don't want a bar of it.

Agree 100%, but the chances of the government getting an increase on the gst nill. So introduce another consumption tax, a tax on electricity which everyone uses.
It is actually insidiously nasty because it is like a pyramid scheme with the government at the top.
They hit all the suppliers at the top, then the suppliers pass the costs down. The ones at the bottom, the consumer has no where to go, they require electricity and the suppliers can't avoid the gov't at the top.
It is unbelievable, just amazing that people aren't jumping up and down about it.
But hey, they accepted retirement age being lifted etc without a murmer.
That is the way unions run, most members are apathetic and say nothing, so why not carry that through to running the country.

 

[sptrawler]

I would much preferred to have had the GST raised to 12.5% or even 15%. At least one would know how much tax we are paying but of course the Labor Party does not have the fortitude to do it that way..

So would I

 

[Julia]

And there's Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan giving the Europeans a lecture on economics.

Their words will come back to haunt them, and us.

Hearing Ms Gillard lecture the G20 meeting today about how the rest of the world should emulate Australia because Australia has struck the perfect balance between austerity and stimulus was just embarrassing.
The woman's skin is so thick and her self belief so intractable, she appears to have absolutely no idea how inappropriate her patronising was. Just awful.

Agree 100%, but the chances of the government getting an increase on the gst nill. So introduce another consumption tax, a tax on electricity which everyone uses.
It is actually insidiously nasty because it is like a pyramid scheme with the government at the top.
They hit all the suppliers at the top, then the suppliers pass the costs down. The ones at the bottom, the consumer has no where to go, they require electricity and the suppliers can't avoid the gov't at the top.
It is unbelievable, just amazing that people aren't jumping up and down about it.

Not sure why you think people aren't jumping up and down about it?
Everyone i know is angry, frustrated, but feel powerless. What can anyone do about it? Nothing.
It's law until there's a change of government.

 

[Glen48]

Good to seethe feds are doing their bit:
Carbon Tax
But where is this money really going? And are our carbon tax bureaucrats practicing what they preach?We did a little digging, and discovered what many long suspected: While Aussie families are struggling, bureaucrats are living the high life and travelling to exotic destinations at our expense.Documents released to the Australian Taxpayers’ Alliance under Freedom of Information laws revealed that bureaucrats in the Department of Climate change flew 6,528,616km last financial year, costing us a staggering $3,274,286.40!And while these very people are lecturing us to act like we’re back in the dark ages the carbon emissions of these flights equal over 1000 tonnes!The hypocrisy is staggering – it’s one rule for them, and another rule for us. No wonder they are happy to slug airlines with the carbon tax – they don’t have to pay the bill! So where were they flying to?None other than the holiday resorts of Cancun, Vanuatu, Maiami, Fiji, The Maldives, Grenada, Maimi, Barcelona… Must be tough having to travel to places like the Caribbean & South Pacific all the time!The actions of Department staff make one thing clear: the carbon tax isn’t about the environment, it’s about squeezing taxpayers for their own benefit. And of course, it’s only the best in luxury travel for our bureaucrats – no expense is spared! Many of these flights cost the taxpayers up to ten times what an online economy class ticket would cost.A round trip from Sydney to Bali cost for one person $15,311!!!!! I had a look on Jetstar just now, and you could get economy flight for under $700! Then there’s the flight to Seaul ($15,688.57), Thailand ($13,093.74pp for two people), Chile ($12,805.46)…And this doesn’t even include accommodation: From $21,115.69 for a 5 star hotel in Thailand to the whopping $265,000 for the delegation in Durban.We asked who took these flights, but they refused to answer. It is no wonder that the department of climate change refused to reveal who took these flights – I’d be ashamed too if this was found out. We shall be appealing this decision, because the Australian public has a right to know whose holidays they are paying for!


​

 

[sptrawler]

Hearing Ms Gillard lecture the G20 meeting today about how the rest of the world should emulate Australia because Australia has struck the perfect balance between austerity and stimulus was just embarrassing.
The woman's skin is so thick and her self belief so intractable, she appears to have absolutely no idea how inappropriate her patronising was. Just awful.



Not sure why you think people aren't jumping up and down about it?
Everyone i know is angry, frustrated, but feel powerless. What can anyone do about it? Nothing.
It's law until there's a change of government.

Yes I suppose I am just like the majority of the Australia's population, stand in line untill you are called.
That's our way and that is why we are being hammered, it is really sad having to wait for a time to elapse before you can have your say.
I think the longer this goes on, the bigger the backlash against labor will be.
That also causes a problem, what if labor don't win a seat? That doesn't bear thinking about, but I tend to think it will happen.

I don't think labor realise how bad they are going, it is truly amazing, Bob's jumped ship.
The goon show is going to put labor into the wilderness for at least three terms and that is sad.

 

[Smurf1976]

Not sure why you think people aren't jumping up and down about it?
Everyone i know is angry, frustrated, but feel powerless. What can anyone do about it? Nothing.
It's law until there's a change of government.

It's the same with everything these days and I think it comes about at least partly due to the perception of it being a lost cause.

A point not lost on me at least is that during the 1970's and 80's Queensland, Victoria and especially Tasmania had fierce mainstream debates which were effectively about keeping the cost of electricity down.

Queensland with the big union battles and blackouts. Victoria with union struggles in the Latrobe Valley and the environmental fight over Newport power station. And of course Tasmania where the issue topped the agenda from 1979 until into the early 2000's with what at times became almost war over hydro dams and more recently the import of coal-fired power from Victoria.

30,000 people marched through the streets of Hobart to oppose a dam. A similar number marched in favour of it. A referendum was held. Two premiers and a state government were destroyed in the process. All in the pursuit of cheap electricity. Do a bit of research into the history of Newport (Vic) and it's somewhat similar, albeit concerning a different resource and location.

Partly I think people have just become disinterested in politics generally and somewhat dumbed down. That plus I think the masses just don't get how pivotal energy, which for the most part means electricity, liquid fuels and to some extent reticulated gas, is to everything we do. The memories of Victoria's decades of power rationing are gone. Likewise not many remember the Tasmanian power emergency in 1967-68 (which ultimately lead to the revival of daylight savings by the way, but that's another story). Not many even realise that there was a big panic in SA 30 years ago about the state running out of fuel to fire the boilers at Torrens Island (SA's largest power station). The great heating oil panic of 1979 is equally forgotten by most as is the impact the oil crisis back then had on industry. And most in WA would be blissfully unaware that fuel supply for power generation was even a problem in the past.

What was that line about those who forget the mistakes of history being doomed to repeat them?

 

[sptrawler]

This is where I think labor have lost the plot smurph.
Most inforned voters, which are those who have internet access, realise the rort side of the carbon tax.
Labor readily accept the tax will be passed on, to counteract this they pay compensation to the poor, for a limited time. Then the poor also pay the the increased tax. Like I said only fools would swallow the $hit butties this govn't serves up.
A bunch of losers that want to back fill the holes they've dug. Sad just very sad.

 

[Logique]

One can only imagine the aghast leaders at the G20.

If only they would follow little Australia's lead, all would be well. Their countrees, could have just as good ecomomees, but they ought to have a carbon tairx. Sorry that's carbon 'pricing'.

Yes a model economy, which unlike the former Coalition govt's time, owes little to the mining boom, nor to the inherited national surplus. But naggingly, this apparent ongoing need to collect more tax..

 

[Logique]

...A point not lost on me at least is that during the 1970's and 80's Queensland, Victoria and especially Tasmania had fierce mainstream debates which were effectively about keeping the cost of electricity down...

But Smurf, you've got all those Green Jobs now, so it's all worked out for Tasmania.

 

[noco]

Hearing Ms Gillard lecture the G20 meeting today about how the rest of the world should emulate Australia because Australia has struck the perfect balance between austerity and stimulus was just embarrassing.
The woman's skin is so thick and her self belief so intractable, she appears to have absolutely no idea how inappropriate her patronising was. Just awful.



Not sure why you think people aren't jumping up and down about it?
Everyone i know is angry, frustrated, but feel powerless. What can anyone do about it? Nothing.
It's law until there's a change of government.

She is already a joke with European Nations. What an embarrassment to Australia.

 

[dutchie]

She is already a joke with European Nations. What an embarrassment to Australia.

She is willing to embarrass Australia for her own political gain......look at moi look at moi look at moi

 

[DB008]

There was a very interesting interview on 2GB around midday today (on the Chris Smith show).
Barnaby Joyce and a Tip/Recycling plant boss (possibly CEO, l was in the car and missed parts of it) talking about the new CO2 tax. Begins in 11 days.

l've called 2GB and this interview be put up as a podcast later on this afternoon. I seriously recommend listening to it. Probably 10-15 minutes. I'll post links to the podcast when it's up.

 

[DB008]

There was a very interesting interview on 2GB around midday today (on the Chris Smith show).
Barnaby Joyce and a Tip/Recycling plant boss (possibly CEO, l was in the car and missed parts of it) talking about the new CO2 tax. Begins in 11 days.

l've called 2GB and this interview be put up as a podcast later on this afternoon. I seriously recommend listening to it. Probably 10-15 minutes. I'll post links to the podcast when it's up.

Ok, got it. Please listen. 10 minutes in length. 2:20 mark it gets very, very interesting.

Waste industry readies to be hit by carbon tax

Chris Smith speaks with Nationals Senator Barnaby Joyce about the looming tax.

http://podcasts.mrn.com.au.s3.amazonaws.com/chrissmith/20120619-bj.mp3

 

[joea]

Who can we blame? Kevin Rudd right?
And it goes on.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/carbon-millions-squandered-20120616-20h4x.html

joea

 

[Smurf1976]

Given that we're actually getting this tax and it is just a week away, some questions regarding what others think.

1. Do you think that a Coalition government would actually repeal the carbon tax? Or is the promise to do so simply politics that will never be implemented?

2. Is it likely that any major impacts will occur prior to the next election? By "major" I mean things like one or more large manufacturing operations actually closing, the closure of a coal-fired power station and/or commencement of construction of a direct replacement, work actually commencing to export brown coal or something like that? I don't mean that your bills simply go up etc, but I mean "big" effects that are for practical purposes irreversible?

Both are ultimately related to the same thing. Firstly, does the Coalition really intend removing the tax? And secondly, could they actually do so without already incurring effectively permanent costs (avoidance of which is the only real point of removing the tax)?

My own opinion is that yes, a Coalition government would remove the tax but also yes, there will be some impacts "set in stone" prior to the next election. Depending on what those impacts are, particularly if it involves closure of a major power station, reversing the tax could end up involving compensation being paid I would think.

Not directly related to these questions, but the lady 2 doors up from me doesn't seem too happy. She's on the pension and can only afford $100 per fortnight for power. That means she can't heat the bedroom during winter. Needless to say, she's not too happy.

 

[joea]

Smurf1976

I believe by the time the coalition get in (if they get in), they will have do some sort of audit.
I think Australia is like a ship listing to one side at sea. Just walking to the other side may not "right the ship."
The list of things to change or adjust will be very long.
If a new government is to be effective quickly, it has to have some sort of priority to get "bang for our buck".

So , although I have not answered your question directly, I think the time between now and a new
government will in fact be the deciding factor in how they make the adjustments.
joea