Labor's carbon tax lie

sails · 12 October 2011

Here is more information on what this tax means in this country. What about all those being compensated for their $391 per man, woman and child, all the extra fat cat salaries for the dozen or so new departments to administer and all the money to be send overseas in abatements? How much is each working and tax paying Australian supposed to carry? And that is on top of boat arrivals coming in droves for a free ride courtesy of the Aussie taxpayer.

...the Australian Carbon Tax is a freakishly large sacrificial offering: Australians will be hit for $391 for every man, woman and child, and that’s just the first year (according to the government estimates). Compare this to the EU. There in the land-of-exploding-economies, each good citizen has had to fork out the vast grand sum of (wait for it) … one dollar fifty cents each (yes, $1.50). And, it gets worse, (how do you satirize this?) ”” that’s the cumulative total since the EU started trading in 2005.

Source: http://joannenova.com.au/2011/09/ar...need-to-go-through-this-carefully/#more-17168

And a snapshot from this PDF shows graphically how burdened Aussies will be under this new tax compared to other countries:

http://www.mineralscouncil.com.au/f...ubmission_CEF_legislation_Minerals_sector.pdf

Julia · 12 October 2011

LostMyShirt said:
So it has been passed... Damn.

I wonder how this will affect the markets, but most of all how i will affect the household budgets for so many people. Those companies will just pass the tax on, and these "tax breaks" are a headache and utter garbage.

Here is yet another bill the Australian people will have to fit, and the loss of parlimentary seats is not enough compensation.

Agree. Further, many small businesses which are already struggling and which will receive no compensation under the carbon tax will go under.

joea said:
Hi.
Well there are 74 MP's who think they are heroes.(or have been told they are).
In a democracy, that is enough to pass the legislation.
The point is, will the Australian people respond to the benefits of this legislation?
After all 74 MP's who represent the so called majority, believe they will.

I doubt that these 74 believe any such thing. They're simply toeing the party line whilst dreading the backlash in their electorates.

IFocus · 12 October 2011

robusta said:
Why dont we ring Allen Jones?????????

C'mon what can you do until the next election?

Whinge, whinge, moan, moan.

LOL usual hysteria, the test is now will Abbott remove the tax.............

drsmith · 12 October 2011

IFocus said:
LOL usual hysteria, the test is now will Abbott remove the tax.............

Labor would like the electorate to forget they lied about it in the first place.

That's not going to happen.

"There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead" will haunt Julia Gillard to her political grave. She's dug the hole for herself and Kevin Rudd, without a doubt, will now be sharpening the knife.

IFocus · 12 October 2011

drsmith said:
Labor would like the electorate to forget they lied about it in the first place.

That's not going to happen.

"There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead" will haunt Julia Gillard to her political grave. She's dug the hole for herself and Kevin Rudd, without a doubt, will now be sharpening the knife.

Possible in fact likely but it wont change the lies Abbotts sprouting either............

drsmith · 12 October 2011

You're clutching at straws IF.

In the eyes of voters, Tony Abbott's responses will pale into insignificance compared to Labor lying to the electorate on such a major policy area.

Rubbing voters noses in it won't help Labor's cause either.

Julia Gillard says she broke her word on the carbon tax because of political necessity and for a higher ideal - healing the planet. If we take that as a given, then a smart politician would look to pass the measure more in sorrow than triumph.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-not-a-good-look/story-fnaj184i-1226165077227

Wysiwyg · 12 October 2011

Compare this to the EU. There in the land-of-exploding-economies, each good citizen has had to fork out the vast grand sum of (wait for it) … one dollar fifty cents each (yes, $1.50).

Have to consider the populations in comparison. Obviously more people will lessen the cost per capita.

Calliope · 13 October 2011

IFocus said:
LOL usual hysteria, the test is now will Abbott remove the tax.............

The tax will be there while the Greens control the Senate. It will be years before they are ousted, if ever. The tax will be firmly embedded by then.

Logique · 13 October 2011

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...crisis-in-europe/story-e6frg6xf-1226165308636

Market price for carbon sags on crisis in Europe

"THE European market for carbon has slumped far below the Australian government's carbon tax price of $23 a tonne as distressed companies in Britain and Greece cash in permits while investors wait for the outcome of next month's climate summit in South Africa.
The carbon price in Europe has fallen to about E10 ($13.70) a tonne during the past week, its lowest level since the depths of the financial crisis in February 2009.

This is below the level set in the new carbon tax and the intended floor price of $15 a tonne when Australia switches to a carbon-trading system in 2015..."

kavla1970 · 13 October 2011

drsmith said:
Labor would like the electorate to forget they lied about it in the first place.

That's not going to happen.

"There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead" will haunt Julia Gillard to her political grave. She's dug the hole for herself and Kevin Rudd, without a doubt, will now be sharpening the knife.

I was personally against a GST(because once a tax is implemented then future Governments rarely withdraw it(ie Payroll tax)) but at least the electorate voted on the issue.

Surly · 13 October 2011

kavla1970 said:
I was personally against a GST(because once a tax is implemented then future Governments rarely withdraw it(ie Payroll tax)) but at least the electorate voted on the issue.

The electorate did vote on this. 144 of the 150 lower house members stood for a party that was not going to introduce a Carbon Tax.

According to Wikipedia
5,365,529 people voted Coalition with no tax
4,711,363 people voted for the ALP who promised no tax
2,325,471 people voted for a party that may or may not have had a carbon tax on their platform.

And yet here it is!

cheers
Surly

trainspotter · 13 October 2011

COALITION MAINTAINS 58-42 LEAD

Key Findings

Two-party vote: Coalition 58% (steady) lead ALP 42% (steady) [based on 2010 election preferences]
First preferences: Labor 27% (down 1), Coalition 48% (steady), Greens 13% (up 1)
Ms Gillard’s approval at 32% (down 6); disapproval at 62% (up 5)
Mr Abbott’s approval at 43% (steady); disapproval at 52% (steady)
Preferred PM: Abbott 48% (up 1), Gillard 40% (down 4)

The Gillard Government would be defeated in a landslide if an election were held now, according to the latest Nielsen Poll.

http://au.nielsen.com/news/200512.shtml

Who voted for a "Carbon Tax" ???????????

Julia · 13 October 2011

Surly said:
The electorate did vote on this. 144 of the 150 lower house members stood for a party that was not going to introduce a Carbon Tax.

What's the time frame for this claim?
Presumably you're reverting to John Howard's statement about no GST some years before he actually changed his policy and went to an election to allow the electorate to decide, at which stage he effectively received a mandate for introducing the GST?

According to Wikipedia
5,365,529 people voted Coalition with no tax
4,711,363 people voted for the ALP who promised no tax
2,325,471 people voted for a party that may or may not have had a carbon tax on their platform.

And yet here it is!

Again, the above is only meaningful if you offer a date for such a vote and whether it was some opinion poll between elections or the actual figures at an election.
It would be good to see what the actual questions were that were asked, as with any polling.

sails · 13 October 2011

Julia said:
What's the time frame for this claim?
Presumably you're reverting to John Howard's statement about no GST some years before he actually changed his policy and went to an election to allow the electorate to decide, at which stage he effectively received a mandate for introducing the GST?

Again, the above is only meaningful if you offer a date for such a vote and whether it was some opinion poll between elections or the actual figures at an election.
It would be good to see what the actual questions were that were asked, as with any polling.

Julia, those figures were the primary votes from the 2010 election - so they do mean something. The 144 is the 72+72 of Lib-Nat + Labor, although Crooke is a WA Nat, so it probably should be 73+72 as his voters would have thought they were voting for coalition and not him as an independent.

On that basis, there were 145 MPs who represented "no carbon tax". Windsor's and Oakeshott's voters may not have had any idea what they stood for and Wilke got in on the back of lib preferences. So, all in all, there was probably only one MP (the green) where voters knew they were voting for a carbon tax.

5,365,529 Lib-Nat 43.3% 72
4,711,363 ALP 38.0% 72
1,458,998 Greens 11.8% 1
866,473 Other 7.0% 5

http://abcdiamond.com.au/2010-australian-federal-election/

Julia · 13 October 2011

sails said:
Julia, those figures were the primary votes from the 2010 election - so they do mean something. The 144 is the 72+72 of Lib-Nat + Labor, although Crooke is a WA Nat, so it probably should be 73+72 as his voters would have thought they were voting for coalition and not him as an independent.

On that basis, there were 145 MPs who represented "no carbon tax". Windsor's and Oakeshott's voters may not have had any idea what they stood for and Wilke got in on the back of lib preferences. So, all in all, there was probably only one MP (the green) where voters knew they were voting for a carbon tax.

http://abcdiamond.com.au/2010-australian-federal-election/

OK. I'd thought Surly was talking about the GST because his post appeared to be a response to one which discussed the GST. My apologies for misunderstanding.

sails · 13 October 2011

Julia said:
OK. I'd thought Surly was talking about the GST because his post appeared to be a response to one which discussed the GST. My apologies for misunderstanding.

lol Julia, I didn't see the bit about GST and assumed it was about carbon tax as the primary vote seemed pretty close to what had happened in 2010.

Maybe Surley can confirm...

Surly · 14 October 2011

Julia,

I was responding to having a vote on Carbon Tax as we did with the GST.

Gillard was clearly given a mandate not to introduce a Carbon Tax in this term and I hope the disdain she has shown the electorate puts ALP in the wilderness for a decade or more.

cheers
Surly

kavla1970 · 14 October 2011

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/6/Epw5Tpo4j2I

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel?blend=1&ob=5#p/u/5/YdgKFqrtM-s

An overseas take on the Aussie Carbon Tax.

wayneL · 14 October 2011

And another http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100110321/australia-commits-suicide/

Australia commits suicide
By James Delingpole World Last updated: October 12th, 2011
935 Comments Comment on this article

One of the worst aspects of living in these apocalyptic times is that whenever you look around the world, wondering where you might escape to, you begin to realise that everywhere else is just as bad if not worse.
Take Australia, an island built on fossil fuel with an economy dependent on fossil fuel. What would be the maddest economic policy a place like that could pursue as the world tips deeper into recession? Why, to introduce a carbon tax, of course.

Logique · 15 October 2011

From that source:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100110321/australia-commits-suicide/
Australia commits suicide By James Delingpole World Last updated: October 12th, 2011
What's that you say, Skip? They've all topped themselves?

"...What must be particularly galling to all the Australians (the majority) bitterly opposed to this lunatic measure is the unutterable feebleness of the arguments the [Gillard minority govt] Coalition is using to justify it.

Here, for example, is its Chief Scientist Ian Chubb in action:

"With respect to this cooling stuff, I have seen the claim, but the evidence that I have seen is that the last decade has been the warmest decade that we have ever had on this planet, so I do not know what this cooling stuff means.”

Let's just run that one by you again, in case you thought you'd been overdoing the Cane toad juice. The man who came up with that scientifically inaccurate, historically ignorant, Greenpeace-like enviro-hysteria drivel is AUSTRALIA'S CHIEF SCIENTIST..."

Labor's carbon tax lie

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