Labor's carbon tax lie

[medicowallet]

Well look, imagine this. You are at a parents and teachers meeting in a school, where some parent gets up, and starts adamantly demanding that the flat earth theory be taught in science. I don't know about you, but I would remove such a parent from the meeting with haste.

I do not know what circumstances you were in obviously, but I would suggest they saw the situation very similar to the one I described.

I dunno,

In my experience as a student, and a parent. School teachers have very little clue about science, and are often 25+ years out of date (representing their education and the age of textbooks) or do not understand the concepts.

This is EXACTLY what happens with AGW and GLOBAL WARMING and CARBON TAXES.

I can honestly say, as a qualified research experienced scientist, that AGW science needs to be analysed VERY thoroughly, which is a hobby of mine.

SCM, the cafe late sipping new age save the planet type just believes the tripe fed to him, and no doubt has no thought for himself. A follower no doubt.

 

[sptrawler]

Actually starcraftmazter, have you ever put yourself out in an unselfish way and helped someone financially, just to help them out.
Never expecting a return or financial restitution, just helping someone who was not in a position to help themselves and I am talking $1000's not a $20 donation.
I doubt it.

 

[sptrawler]

Australia's only solar panel manufacturer. Moving the plant to China, what isn't that one of our new jobs in the renewable revolution, the new world that is going to open up opportunities for us.
What an absolute joke.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/c...t-hits-par-with-coal-fuel-20110817-1iybc.html

 

[noco]

Yes, they are all heading to Canberra. No kidding the APF WILL NEED plenty of back up to control this protest.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...f-working-people/story-e6frgd0x-1226116943715

 

[sptrawler]

From the Australian article:
" Added to this failure to reveal the true cost of a carbon tax is the other big lie, pointed out by my colleague Henry Ergas (among numerous other failings in the scheme), that the carbon tax "job growth" does not exist.

The jobs growth as such is not a result of the Treasury model; it is an assumption of the model. It relies on lower real wages to make good the assumption of full unemployment.

All other things considered, the real outcome of the carbon tax will in fact be both job losses and real wage decline. Treasury knows this and the Treasurer knows this, or at least he should ".

The loss of jobs and lower real wages with the resultant loss of living standard, is the real issue this lousy government is covering up.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

I have never, ever seen the other side even try such a stunt and I wasn't the only person to suffer the same fate. I remember quite well another individual who dared suggest that encouraging business (without mentioning any specific business) might be a good idea. They were shouted down pronto.

Typically encouraging business somehow involves making things worse for the taxpayer and employee. Regardless, I cannot judge without being there.

Agreed that this would represent bias.

But if the same publication presents nothing but positive stories in relation to the same program then that also represents bias.

Sure.

Actually starcraftmazter, have you ever put yourself out in an unselfish way and helped someone financially, just to help them out.
Never expecting a return or financial restitution, just helping someone who was not in a position to help themselves and I am talking $1000's not a $20 donation.
I doubt it.

Of course you would - people on this forum do nothing but make stupid personal assumptions and insult others. Very few people are able to discuss and debate things in a civil fashion, so I would not expect better. Your assumption is once again false.

 

[drsmith]

people on this forum do nothing but make stupid personal assumptions and insult others.

Bit of a generalisation there.

It's past your bed time, again.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

Bit of a generalisation there.

It's past your bed time, again.

Great irony.

 

[sptrawler]

Bit of a generalisation there.

It's past your bed time, again.

Obviously touched a nerve.
Its very easy when young and idealistic to shout loudly for your cause, it takes time to realise that your cause isn't necessarily right or what the majority want.
Just because it furthers your ends doesn't make it right, especially when it financially impacts on the majority.
Oh sorry I forgot, you said, the majority a stupid. That is probably why you are pushing for them to pay for your ridiculously expensive N.B.N. rather than your company.

 

[Smurf1976]

Typically encouraging business somehow involves making things worse for the taxpayer and employee.

I fail to see how turning an unemployed person into an employee is making things worse, unless of course we are talking about people who would prefer not to be employed or to otherwise work.

 

[drsmith]

But the Minister for Climate Change, Greg Combet, has insisted the climate policy deal is done, and the only changes to iron out technical glitches will be made to the legislation before it is introduced to parliament next month.

Dear Mr Combet,

The only deal you have done is with the Greens and the "legend in their own lunch time" independents.

The deal Labor did with the Australian people was not to introduce a carbon price this term, a deal Labor has reneged on to satisfy the above and maintain power.

It is well past time you, and Labor in general, listened to some common sense,

BIG business is demanding the Gillard government include economic ''safety valves'' so carbon tax legislation can be ''scaled down'' if its core assumptions of indefinite economic growth and steady progress in international climate negotiations turn out to be wrong.

Business Council of Australia chief executive Jennifer Westacott told the Herald the carbon tax bills had been ''drafted so all the environmental elements can't be stopped but the business protections can be eroded.''

''We think it is just commonsense, in this environment of economic volatility and no binding action by other countries, that the government should be able to review and adjust what it is doing in response to what happens,'' she said.

''We are concerned the legislation as written, starts with too high a price and then automatically ratchets that up … we want to see a capacity to properly take into account what is happening in the world economy and what other countries are actually doing.''

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/c...-carbon-tax-escape-clause-20110818-1j045.html

 

[wayneL]

Once again, there is no ETS. What is being proposed is a carbon tax.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Let's say you've already argued it countless times with the person, shown them satellite images, they know that 99.99999% of the world's scientists discredit their theory...and yet they still persist.

I am patient, but I would not be able to deal with that level of ignorance.

As everyone (including the Government itself) has correctly termed it a tax except you, what you have argued for here is no less than your own ejection from this forum.

But as the forum doesn't share the Green's Stalinist ideology of removing dissent, censoring media or executing (yes this has been suggested) those who disagree, we allow you to state your "flat earth-like" opinion that the tax is an ETS.

Just one example of several cognitive dissonances you have displayed here.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

I fail to see how turning an unemployed person into an employee is making things worse, unless of course we are talking about people who would prefer not to be employed or to otherwise work.

Well if it's for example by abolishing company tax...

Just one example of several cognitive dissonances you have displayed here.

Again, the government has been cornered into calling it a tax. Media is stupid and biased; especially any commercial media. Just because they call it a tax doesn't make it a tax. Broadly, just because anyone or any group of people refer to something by a specific term - doesn't make it so.

Unlike you I seem to be capable of making my own judgements.

 

[moXJO]

Again, the government has been cornered into calling it a tax. Media is stupid and biased; especially any commercial media. Just because they call it a tax doesn't make it a tax. Broadly, just because anyone or any group of people refer to something by a specific term - doesn't make it so.

Unlike you I seem to be capable of making my own judgements.

You quoted some random guys blog to prove it wasn't a tax

 

[noco]

Well if it's for example by abolishing company tax...



Again, the government has been cornered into calling it a tax. Media is stupid and biased; especially any commercial media. Just because they call it a tax doesn't make it a tax. Broadly, just because anyone or any group of people refer to something by a specific term - doesn't make it so.

Unlike you I seem to be capable of making my own judgements.

If it looks like a DUCK, if it walks like a DUCK, if it quacks like a DUCK, it is DUCK!!!!

 

[joea]

Well if it's for example by abolishing company tax...



Again, the government has been cornered into calling it a tax. Media is stupid and biased; especially any commercial media. Just because they call it a tax doesn't make it a tax. Broadly, just because anyone or any group of people refer to something by a specific term - doesn't make it so.

Unlike you I seem to be capable of making my own judgements.

I am just wondering what planet you originated from?
The reason I ask, is you still have not cottoned to the english language and politics yet.

It appears what you call a judgement, is then to infer that all people should accept your judgement. We live in a democracy and the last time I looked, if the majority
says its a tax, its a tax.
joea

 

[sptrawler]

Well if it's for example by abolishing company tax...



Again, the government has been cornered into calling it a tax. Media is stupid and biased; especially any commercial media. Just because they call it a tax doesn't make it a tax. Broadly, just because anyone or any group of people refer to something by a specific term - doesn't make it so.

Unlike you I seem to be capable of making my own judgements.

It is not a carbon trading scheme it is a tax that the government can decide what it spends it on. That is why a percentage is being used to compensate lower income earners(for now). At a later date the government can change the allocation as it desires.

 

[wayneL]

Again, the government has been cornered into calling it a tax. Media is stupid and biased; especially any commercial media. Just because they call it a tax doesn't make it a tax. Broadly, just because anyone or any group of people refer to something by a specific term - doesn't make it so.

Likewise, not calling something a tax, doesn't NOT make it a tax, "levies" for instance.

Unlike you I seem to be capable of making my own judgements.

And unlike you, I do not have to add an ad hominem insult to bolster a spurious argument.

 

[sptrawler]

Likewise, not calling something a tax, doesn't NOT make it a tax, "levies" for instance.



And unlike you, I do not have to add an ad hominem insult to bolster a spurious argument.

Excellent wayneL, this forum is like our own episode of "letters and numbers", Hominem what a fantastic seven.
I had to go to the dictionary to find out what it meant, then I realised I am definitely punching above my weight.

 

[drsmith]

Again, the government has been cornered into calling it a tax.

Is that the world's smallest violin I hear playing for this government ?

As children, the dog would have eaten their homework as well.