Labor's carbon tax lie

[Julia]

Any poll conducted by any given media outlet is imo less than valid.
They all represent the readership of that outlet.

The only surprise in the above result from the left leaning SMH is that the pro response was not greater.

The only polls I'll be interested in on this fraught topic will be those conducted by the genuine research organisations, e.g. Nielsens. et al.

 

[Smurf1976]

Any poll conducted by any given media outlet is imo less than valid.
They all represent the readership of that outlet.

The only surprise in the above result from the left leaning SMH is that the pro response was not greater.

The only polls I'll be interested in on this fraught topic will be those conducted by the genuine research organisations, e.g. Nielsens. et al.

Lots of ways to manipulate opinion polls...

Even if it is done by a supposedly reputable organisation, it still comes down to the actual question being asked. There's also the point that without knowing the details of what is proposed, nobody can comment on the actual proposal. All they can comment on is an in principle view.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Lots of ways to manipulate opinion polls...

Even if it is done by a supposedly reputable organisation, it still comes down to the actual question being asked. There's also the point that without knowing the details of what is proposed, nobody can comment on the actual proposal. All they can comment on is an in principle view.

...and depending on the sampling where it takes place.

Anyone watch Q & A tonight, I thought Turntable presented his views quite articulately. The GG's son-in-law didn't look as comfortable.

 

[-Bevo-]

It does have the side effect of financially killing major energy intensive industries who deal directly with the generators (not distributors) however.

Looking ahead, the miners etc won't suffer too much but downstream processing (steel production etc) will be killed off by the carbon tax. The incentive now is to dig it up here, process it overseas, then import the finished product (at far higher price than the exported raw materials). Doing it that way, emissions are exported to non-carbon tax countries.

I work in one of these energy intensive industry's alot of cost cutting going on were I am atm they can make the same product significantly cheaper at there overseas plant on a cost per ton basis even though the concentrate can be sourced at mines within Australia this Carbon tax will probably see them ramp up production in there overseas refinery since electricity is far and away the single biggest cost, in saying that its more likely to increase emissions as it takes nearly double the concentrate say 2 ton to make 1 ton of product so you need to ship double the tons overseas for what you would get back as final product if that makes sense.

 

[Calliope]

Gadaffi is raising his lying to a new level in an attempt to match our Julia. He says there is no revolt in Libya and that all his people love him. Julia says industry wants a carbon tax as it will give them certainty. The only certainty is that they will be screwed.

 

[Mofra]

...and depending on the sampling where it takes place.

Anyone watch Q & A tonight, I thought Turntable presented his views quite articulately. The GG's son-in-law didn't look as comfortable.

Turnbull is possibly the Libs' best performer and their smartest cookie so it's not surprising to see him perform well.

I did have to laugh at Bill Shorten's comments to Piers Akerman when crazy Aker's kept talking over the top of him; "sorry to keep interrupting your questiopns with good answers".

The part about Abbott renegging on the per-election promise was enlightening - the seems Greens wouldn't have had the bargaining power if Abbott didn't backflip as well.
And people still try and argue one party is more honest than the other

 

[GumbyLearner]

It looks like Gill"tard" and Bob Gay"tard" Brown don't have to worry about Tony Abbott running any scare campaign. The major retailers are letting everyone know the reality of this fallacy. A woman with no kids to feed and a man with no kids to feed.

Groceries to carry the cost of carbon tax, warn supermarkets
By Simon Benson

http://www.news.com.au/business/its...es/story-e6frfm1i-1226013885074#ixzz1FIq3JYiW

FOOD prices are set to rise under the Federal Government's carbon tax, with some of the nation's largest food retailers expected to be hit with potential carbon bills of millions of dollars a year.

A national survey of 500 food and grocery retailers also revealed 83 per cent intend to pass on the cost of a carbon price in higher prices, reports the Daily Telegraph.

The survey follows the release of the Department of Climate Change and Environment's national greenhouse reports showing leading companies' carbon emissions.

Even though a carbon price is yet to be determined, Woolworths could be faced with a potential annual carbon bill of about $10 million a year, based on a carbon price of $26 per tonne, which industry experts and the Opposition are using as a rough guide.

The Federal Government has admitted prices will rise, but vowed to compensate families for any price rises associated with a carbon price, including groceries.

 

[Calliope]

Ms Gillard has certainly delivered certainty to industry on carbon tax. Heather Ridout, whom I always thought was in Gillard's pocket, now has the certainty that it is a fraud.

But Ms Ridout, the Australian Industry Group chief executive, last night declined to back Ms Gillard's proposal to introduce a fixed carbon price from July 1 next year and an emissions trading scheme three to five years later.

"The jury is very much still out on the introduction of a carbon price in Australia, with industry very concerned about the competitive impacts," Ms Ridout said.

"In this regard, all options should still be on the table, including that of rollback until the final shape of the government's proposal is clear.

"While certainty is important for decision-making around major long-term investments, this certainty should not come at the cost of a loss of competitiveness that sends jobs and emissions offshore or risks the continuity of energy supply."

Read more

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...r-heather-ridout/story-fn59niix-1226013808402

 

[GumbyLearner]

Gadaffi is raising his lying to a new level in an attempt to match our Julia. He says there is no revolt in Libya and that all his people love him. Julia says industry wants a carbon tax as it will give them certainty. The only certainty is that they will be screwed.

Well I suppose when you put your head in the sand and don't really give a **** about ordinary Australians, then that old Queensland Cop isn't that far off in his assessment.

Liberal frontbencher compares Labor minister Craig Emerson to Libyan leader Gaddafi

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n-leader-gaddafi/story-fn59niix-1226013996753

LIBERAL frontbencher Peter Dutton has compared Labor's Craig Emerson to Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi in an on-screen sledge branded as "offensive" by the senior minister.

In a fiery exchange on Sky News this morning, Mr Dutton likened the Trade Minister's claims of support for Labor's proposed carbon tax to Gaddafi's claims that “everybody's in favour of me, nobody's rising up against me”.

Colonel Gaddafi is clinging to power in Libya, insisting today that “all my people love me” despite the seizure by pro-democracy forces of vast areas of his country and global outrage at his brutal crackdown on opponents.

Mr Dutton also compared Mr Emerson to “Comical” Ali, aka Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf - Saddam Hussein's former information minister who became famous for his fanciful propaganda statements during the 2003 Iraq war.

Dr Emerson was outraged by the comparison.

“I think that's pretty offensive,” he said.

“I would rather you not use comparisons with a killer in Iraq and me, alright.

“You might think that's flippant and funny, I think it's bloody disgraceful, you understand that, I think that is bloody disgraceful, and there is a line here Peter, which you have crossed which you should not pass.â

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I must admit that Gillard is a liar.

However i do not like radio jocks like Jones , dressing her down for being late. She is PM after all, just.

It is a lie.

She is a liar.

gg

 

[IFocus]

The numbers continue to be better than expected

Also interesting to see Abbott take hits over the issue. Malcolm on Q&A is one of the few who can match Labor on the discussion

Dutton's attempt is at best bottom feeder level politics you attack at a personable level when you don't have an argument.

Bishops attempt yesterday was a joke shot down on fire by Gillard.

: Where do you stand on a carbon tax?
Poll form

1. Please select an answer. For it
2. Against it
3. Need to know more detail before deciding
4. View results

For it

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/c...dful-for-business-pm-20110301-1bc9h.html#poll

37%
Against it

52%
Need to know more detail before deciding

11%

 

[moXJO]

The numbers continue to be better than expected

For it

37%

Against it

52%
.

That’s on 'hug a whale' smh, and they still don't support it. How are they better than expected? I would have thought worse given the tilt to the left following of the paper.

Libs are floundering trying to score points. They need to be very careful imo.

Personally I don't want an ETS if it achieves next to nothing on global pollution. Honest truth I don't really want it in at all.
Bit early to call until there is more detail.

NZ already has it in, anything we can learn from that?

 

[Julia]

That’s on 'hug a whale' smh, and they still don't support it. How are they better than expected? I would have thought worse given the tilt to the left following of the paper.

Right. I made this point earlier.

Libs are floundering trying to score points. They need to be very careful imo.

It's pretty difficult for them. They need to be seen to be taking an alternative position but if they think they will repeal the tax (how will they even do this with the Greens controlling the Senate?), they need to be mindful of the frustration such a promise will invoke in business who will not know where to go.
If there is uncertainty now, isn't this going to be magnified if the tax is legislated, but then the Libs say they will wipe it?
Imo they need to set out exactly how they would go about removing it, given the changed situation in the Senate should they get back into power.
Stupid and useless to make promises if there is no way they can execute them.

Personally I don't want an ETS if it achieves next to nothing on global pollution. Honest truth I don't really want it in at all.

I think this comment would be typical of many Australians. If we were to be part of a global scheme which included the US, UK, China, India et al, then it would perhaps make some sense. But in the present global situation it will simply put Australia at a disadvantage. Many of our industries will simply move their operations off shore.

 

[IFocus]

That’s on 'hug a whale' smh, and they still don't support it. How are they better than expected? I would have thought worse given the tilt to the left following of the paper.

Supposed to be a peoples revolution / anger attack remember this is a tax and no one wants to pay more tax? The numbers should be horrific!

Libs are floundering trying to score points. They need to be very careful imo.

They look ordinary in fact they look like rabble which is what they are.

Personally I don't want an ETS if it achieves next to nothing on global pollution. Honest truth I don't really want it in at all.
Bit early to call until there is more detail.

NZ already has it in, anything we can learn from that?

Exactly Australians don't want to pay for anything, just a bunch of free loaders particularly the eastern states.

 

[todster]

I must admit that Gillard is a liar.

However i do not like radio jocks like Jones , dressing her down for being late. She is PM after all, just.

It is a lie.

She is a liar.

gg

Are all your predictions on here lies or just plain wrong GG

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Are all your predictions on here lies or just plain wrong GG

I'm not the PM and I didn't win a close election forming a coalition with lunatics by saying one thing and now 6 months later doing the exact opposite.

She is a liar.

gg

 

[noco]

I'm not the PM and I didn't win a close election forming a coalition with lunatics by saying one thing and now 6 months later doing the exact opposite.

She is a liar.

gg

GG, the simplist way for all this rot to stop, of offensive name calling on both sides, is for Juliar to go to an election with the carbon tax as her policy.
That is the only way to settle all arguments for and a against. I say let the voters decide. It is known as democracy.

 

[todster]

I'm not the PM and I didn't win a close election forming a coalition with lunatics by saying one thing and now 6 months later doing the exact opposite.

She is a liar.

gg

Pity you would make a good PM and an even better GG

 

[Calliope]

Julia, (my people love me ) Gillard is on a slippery slope. The only thing that can save her is another back-flip.

 

[white_goodman]

i think this is quite fitting