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Labor's carbon tax lie

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At a rough guess I'd say the punters don't like it. Yeah, I know, it's a News Ltd poll.:dunno:

Should Australia have a carbon tax?
Yes
23.3% (1198 votes)

No
76.7% (3944 votes)
Total votes: 5142

Will the carbon tax change your energy consumption

Yes, I’ll make cuts to save money
21.73% (1025 votes)

Yes, green is the way to go
13.17% (621 votes)

No, I’m being compensated – why change?
20.08% (947 votes)

No, climate change is a myth
45.02% (2123 votes)
Total votes: 4716

How will the carbon tax change your vote at the next election?

No change
15.29% (766 votes)

More likely to vote Labor
8.88% (445 votes)

More likely to vote Coalition
66.43% (3329 votes)

More likely to vote Green
4.79% (240 votes)

More likely to vote independent
4.61% (231 votes)
Total votes: 5011

How would you describe the compensation measures?

Terrific, it won't hurt me at all
11.11% (441 votes)

Fair, but I'm still worried about price rises
13% (516 votes)

Inadequate, more needs to be done for families
3.73% (148 votes)

Disgraceful, we shouldn't have this tax at all anyway
72.15% (2863 vote


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/features/env...ou/story-e6frflp0-1226090776139#ixzz1Rfzp8ahS
 
Another stupid figure was that it will cost average $9.90 per week with carbon tax and we get $10.10 to compensate. Those bean counters are smart hey.

"On average, food will go up by less than $1 a week for households," Ms Gillard said.
Click to expand...
A comedian too?
 
Calliope said:
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/features/env...ou/story-e6frflp0-1226090776139#ixzz1Rfzp8ahS
Click to expand...


Here's an update on that poll from the Herald Sun - has the same questions as the one you posted, Calliope:

UPDATE 7.10pm: ANGRY Australians have vowed to vote Julia Gillard from office at the next election after today's controversial carbon tax announcement.

Scores of voters rejected the plan soon after details of the $24.5 billion package to tackle climate change were revealed, with more than 80 per cent who voted in a national online poll saying Australia shouldn't have a carbon tax.
Click to expand...


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ca...nne-carbon-price/story-e6frf7jo-1226091428949
 
noco said:
Yes dutchie, and this Green/Labor socialist left Gillard government are trying to stifle Lord Monckton from speaking at forums through devious means.

Why are they so frightened of Lord Monckton and Prodessor Bob Carter?

Where has freedom of speech gone?
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Free speech will never harm a truly worthwhile cause. If someone is trying to silence something or someone then that in itself speaks volumes.
 
trainspotter said:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ca...nne-carbon-price/story-e6frf7jo-1226091428949

I can't pay my electricity bill with Tim Tams. Not that I could afford Tim Tams in the first instance.
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Three examples of how the compensation math is fundamentally flawed:

1. Electricity generation will be taxed (which is accounted for) and increasingly shift to gas (sort of accounted for).

But completely ignored is that greatly increased demand for gas in SE Australia will require the construction of long distance pipelines to new supply sources, thus significantly increasing the cost of gas. Not only will the gas-fired electricity cost more than presently assumed, but your gas bill will rise as well (with flow on effects to every business that uses gas).

2. Inflation impact will be a one off.

True maybe, but what about the RBA's response with interest rates? And what about the dilution of capital for self funded retirees etc? There seem no plans to compensate for this at all, with only current wage earners or those on a pension having any chance of breaking even.

3. Different households have markedly different energy usage. We are told that electricity will rise $3.30 a week and gas by $1.50 a week.

Quite clearly there are big differences between typical households in Brisbane (moderate electricity use, no gas), Melbourne (low electricity use, very high gas use), Adelaide (moderate electricity and gas use) and Hobart (very high electricity use, no gas use).

Given that the Australian Constitution precludes (at least it does to my understanding) differences in Federal taxation rates, welfare payments etc between the states there is virtually no prospect of matching compensation levels to regional consumption patterns.

Now throw into the mix the prospect of a working couple with no kids (low energy use) versus a retired couple (high use of heating / cooling) and a large family with children (high use of hot water) and it gets even more complicated.

And now add in those who use LPG for heating or hot water, have a wood heater, or are using heating oil. And since you can in fact buy the stuff, I'm sure there's someone out there burning coal at home for heating or hot water too. And then there's a few out in the country with wood ovens...

Those $3.30 and $1.50 figures don't reflect reality for most given the huge variation in consumption levels.
 
Calliope said:
I feel a bit sorry for Bob. Christine Milne has certainly got him by the short and curlies.
Click to expand...
What? Sorry for Bob Brown??? Why on earth would you be sorry for this rabid socialist?


On average, food will go up by less than $1 a week for households," Ms Gillard said.
Click to expand...
(from a post by Wysiwyg)
I just can't see how it's possible to produce any meaningful 'average' given the huge difference in what even like households spend on food.

And I'd like to see someone who understands this sort of modelling to assess the government's assertions here, both in terms of costs to households of the tax and the reasonable levels of compensation. Hopefully the Coalition will get someone on to this.
 
I think I read that the average Aussie electricty bill was $1551 per annum. LOL ... My average per 56 days is over $500 (summer bill , not winter) to run my house. Times this by 6 to make it per annum and I am looking at electricity over $3000 per year. This is an average from the people I talk to in similar circumstances/demographic/modelling.

The result is similar with Natural gas (albeit approximately about half the cost of electricity) Once again similar to people I talk to with the same size house and family.

Am I using too much energy to run my house? If so why is it that the people I am comparing to are similar in their uptake? How is it that the "general" populace can survive on such limited amount of consumption of power?

I am using a LOT less in water than my counterparts even though I am sitting on near double the size of their properties? I also have 2 kitchens and 4 bathrooms in the one house. Slightly more than average comparison. I do not have any solar HWS or rely on any sort of solar panels on the roof for electrickery.

This is done by only using the water we consume (showers and toilets) are restricted to a time limit for showering and my WC's are 6 star rated. My garden has sensors for moisture in the lawn and in the gardens so the reticulation only comes on when required. I am saving close to $600 a year in water compared to my neighbours. (A more precious commodity IMO)

During summer I use the outdoor BBQ for cooking (LPG is insanely epensive but I do not have to run lights inside the kitchen area) and we have TAKEAWAY once a week.

Is my water usage an offset for power output? Should I increase my TAKEAWAY consumption to decrease my power collective due to cooking and heating from my house? Should I take up the life of a Philistine Monk and become "Keeper of the Ark" to survive these dismal days of energy costs before me?

Ohhhhhhhhhh the indecisiveness of it all !!!!!!!

Wait peoples ....... It is the Holy Grail ........ Julia Gillard has thusly spake to the bretheren. She will compensate me for 20 cents a week. HALLELUJAH !!!

I am saaaaaaaaaaaaaaveeeeeeeed ! :rolleyes:
 
Thanks Springhill, an excellent and comprehensive paper from Terry Caldwell. I hope it is widely read. I know our own Smurf will enjoy it.

Great to see someone stick up for coal-fired power stations, in the face of the campaign of lies about them. Terry Caldwell: "...with my many years of practical experience in the power generation industry I knew that all of the claims of 'pollution' from thermal coal-fired power stations are based on untruths.

I suffered still more frustration at the lies being told (particularly during the last Federal election) about 'global pollution', and the stupidity of using pictures of power station cooling towers in the media as an example of supposed 'pollution'. (The condensation coming from those cooling towers is water vapour as pure as that which comes out of any kettle!)." (Terry Caldwell, link in post above).
 
springhill said:
This is a letter from Terry Caldwell, 25 years experience working in the Electricity Commission of NSW.
It's good to hear from those with practical experience.

http://www.climatesceptics.com.au/documents/on-coal-fired-power-electricity-generation.pdf

This is not a letter to the website, but a local newspaper, and was picked up by climatesceptics.com
Click to expand...

Yes, a great letter which points to the greatest CON JOB any Australian Government has ever tried to pull on the tax payers.

SHAME! SHAME SHAME 0n Gillard, the greatest liar of all times.



http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ews-ltd-websites/story-e6freooo-1226091387866
 
noco said:
Yes, a great letter which points to the greatest CON JOB any Australian Government has ever tried to pull on the tax payers.
Click to expand...
John Hewson should read it.

He has doubts the carbon dioxide tax will rise beyond $29 when it becomes an ETS in 2015.

Does he seriously think that we will have renewable alternatives at that cost relative to fossil fuels by 2015 ?

No wonder he had trouble with the GST on a birthday cake.
 
Julia said:
No, and why would they! I heard Mr Combet on the radio this morning suggesting that the Coalition would fall into line here and I just snorted.
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Labor is kidding itself if it thinks it has snookered the Coalition here. The simple reality is that they are the ones who have taken ownership of a carbon tax what was not going to be introduced under a government Julia Gillard leads.

The Greens have infact snookered Labor into a no-win situation.
 
IF oil hits $150-220 a barrel as predicted millions of internal combustions engines will cease to run, less aircraft flying, less shipping, less trucking etc.
More un-employment less usage of electricity, less needs for power stations.

Less manufacturing of Oil related products ... plastic's for a start ... all up less carbon being produced this will have a bigger impact on Carbon reduction than any C/Tax.

Methinks you should pack up and move overseas.
 
drsmith said:
Does he seriously think that we will have renewable alternatives at that cost relative to fossil fuels by 2015 ?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't invest in renewables just yet.. A big chunk of the money will go to The Green's pie in the sky schemes. The Clean Energy Finance Corporation is a child of the Greens. It was Milne who announced it.

TAXPAYERS will pump $10 billion over five years into green power and clean technology.

And they'll become part-owners and financiers of wind, solar and other renewable energy projects.

The unprecedented investment comes despite the Productivity Commission calling on the government to scrap renewable energy subsidies because they were an inefficient way to slash emissions, and warnings from Reserve Bank board member Warwick McKibbin that it could drive up the costs of abatement.

The Clean Energy Finance Corporation will start operating in 2013-14 with more than double the seed capital of its overseas counterpart, Britain's $4.5bn Green Investment Bank.

And green power projects -- excluding nuclear, biofuels from native forest woodwaste, and carbon capture and storage -- will take up at least half the fund's capital, after lobbying by the Greens.

Greens deputy leader Christine Milne said the dedicated funding represented the biggest single investment in renewable energy Australia has ever made.

"With a legislatively guaranteed stream of funding outside the budget, no future government will be able to undermine it without changing the legislation," she said.
Click to expand...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...renewable-energy/story-fn99tjf2-1226091910294
 

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