Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

It's Time To Tell China To Get Nicked

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I find what the US is doing around the world pretty confronting. But I wouldn't advocate attempting to destroy our trade relationships with them because of these behaviors.

We have to manage a relationship with China. We are also discovering that the wonderful world of free trade also creates its own problems in terms of undue dependence on other countries. So yes we need to ask ourselves how we can restore some balance in our economy.

But deciding that China is "the big bad enemy" (and largely on the demands of Donald Trump...) seems like a way to seriously undermine all our relations in Asia. What is the end game of this campaign ?
 
basilio said:
I find what the US is doing around the world pretty confronting. But I wouldn't advocate attempting to destroy our trade relationships with them because of these behaviors.

We have to manage a relationship with China. We are also discovering that the wonderful world of free trade also creates its own problems in terms of undue dependence on other countries. So yes we need to ask ourselves how we can restore some balance in our economy.

But deciding that China is "the big bad enemy" (and largely on the demands of Donald Trump...) seems like a way to seriously undermine all our relations in Asia. What is the end game of this campaign ?
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Vietnam, India, Philippines, Indonesia all have issues.
Its a very tricky spot. I'm all for trading with China and keeping a good relationship. But we can't keep our heads in the sand to the reality of the situation.

Trump has nothing to do with the situation.
 
Oh, we are villains alright.

Oh and they are villains too.

But given the choice between our villains and their villains I will choose our villains every time. FWIW
 
basilio said:
But deciding that China is "the big bad enemy" (and largely on the demands of Donald Trump...) seems like a way to seriously undermine all our relations in Asia. What is the end game of this campaign ?
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I'm not sure we are undermining all our relations in Asia.

Indonesia and Malaysia must have concerns about China's treatment of fellow Muslims ie the Uighurs , but are too cowed to speak in public about it. We should look to strengthen our relationships with them on the basis of a common threat.

Japan and India have no love for China, so there is more opportunity for strengthened relationships.

The end game I suppose is to let China know that we won't be bullied and if that means losing some of our markets, so be it. India has the same population as China, so we should look for trade expansion there among other places.
 
basilio said:
I struggle to see the sense of this "Tell China to get nicked" discussion.

Our agriculture, mining, manufacturing, retail and tertiary industries are all integrated into China as a critical element of their operations.
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Selling these things is profitable most certainly.

Whether or not we should turn a blind eye in the pursuit of that profit is the question.

Same with anything. Eg did asbestos mining companies do the right thing or the wrong thing decades ago? Was their duty to maximise profit? Or was public health a greater concern? A moral dilemma there.

Same could be said for many industries where there's a clear downside to the activity and the point is acknowledged in the financial industry to some extent via "ethical" funds and so on as well as some individual investors consciously choosing to not invest in certain activities they find unacceptable.

I'm not preaching, only highlighting the dilemma. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
Selling these things is profitable most certainly.

Whether or not we should turn a blind eye in the pursuit of that profit is the question.

Same with anything. Eg did asbestos mining companies do the right thing or the wrong thing decades ago? Was their duty to maximise profit? Or was public health a greater concern? A moral dilemma there.

Same could be said for many industries where there's a clear downside to the activity and the point is acknowledged in the financial industry to some extent via "ethical" funds and so on as well as some individual investors consciously choosing to not invest in certain activities they find unacceptable.

I'm not preaching, only highlighting the dilemma. :2twocents
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Your digging into an interminable can of worms their Smurf :eek:

I focused my comments on the trade and business relationship with China because on any analysis Australia is on weaker side of the trading ledger.

On a bigger perspective I think the rapid breakdown of international trust and respect is incredibly dangerous. Put simply it is the road to war. If we think things are bad with COVID 19 and every other environmental/social problem a shooting war between nuclear powers will destroy everyone.

On that basis alone diplomacy not personal abuse and war drums needs to be our direction.
 
basilio said:
On that basis alone diplomacy not personal abuse and war drums needs to be our direction.
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China is pushing into Mongolian land.
There was a violent skirmish in India where Chinese soldiers ambushed then bludgeoned about 40 Indians to death (Over land that China sees as strategic).
Myanmar, Cambodia, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Vietnam, Japan among many others.

They even claimed they had found Australia first and that they have rights. This is CCP ideology not the Chinese people.

I find it strange you condemn trump and yet when a true monster like the CCP is involved, you go to smoke. Is it a communist thing? I'm honestly perplexed.
 
Click on the Twitter link and then select Show this thread. Worth a read. Maajid is one of the most moderate and open minded Muslims I have come across in the media and has always spoken out against Islamic extremism. Those of you who are UK citizens may wish to consider signing the petition (look for the post with the big green box a bit down) or even forward it to others who may not be aware of it. It need 100k signatures to get the UK government to respond and to allow Maajid to drop his hunger strike.

 
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bellenuit said:
Again repeating what I have said many times. The Left's outrage only applies to wrongdoings of the West.
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True, but I don't see the Muslim "community" either in this country or other Muslim countries holding rallies or protest meetings either.

Has Indonesia or Saudi Arabia offered to give Uighurs refugee status like the UK has done with Hong Kongers ?

If they don't care why should we ?
 
How about some perspective on the roles of the US and China in terms of wars and foreign interventions around the globe ?

In our recent past past the US invaded Iraq on trumped up lies (weapons of mass destruction..) and proceeded to totally destroy a nation. Cost them 2 Trillion dollars and rising.

Afghanistan was the next disaster. Overall the US history of interventions in foreign countries, overthrow of governments and projection of US global power has been unparalleled.

Does the US see China a threat to it's hitherto military/economic supremacy in SE Asia and is therefore determined to clip its wings ?

U.S. Wars and Hostile Actions: A List
threat-world-peace.jpg

There is a reason that most countries polled in December 2013 by Gallup called the United States the greatest threat to peace in the world, and why Pew found that viewpoint increased in 2017.

https://davidswanson.org/warlist/
 
SirRumpole said:
True, but I don't see the Muslim "community" either in this country or other Muslim countries holding rallies or protest meetings either.

Has Indonesia or Saudi Arabia offered to give Uighurs refugee status like the UK has done with Hong Kongers ?

If they don't care why should we ?
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I agree. But I do not judge us by their standards. The petition is just to get the UK to debate imposing sanctions on China and a debate will draw some focus on their plight. I certainly do not think it the responsibility of any western country to offer them refugee status, as it is impossible for the west to solve the problems of every ethnic minority in the world. But letting China off scot free may let them think they can do anything without consequences.

I don't know why most Islamic countries are so silent. It was the same with Syrian refugees. The Saudis were happy to have Germany do the heavy lifting and their contribution would have been to build mosques.

The lack of response from many Islamic countries may be related to the brand of Islam practised. As you know, Muslims are not the best at getting on with others of the same fate but a different sect. This is what I gleaned from Wikipedia....

Their language is related to Turkish and also shares similarities with Uzbek, Mongolian, Kazakh and Kyrgyz. Islam is an important part of their identity. Most practice a moderate form of Sunni Islam, while some are followers of Sufi sects. It is not uncommon for Uighurs to drink alcohol or for women to work

Anyway the main purpose of the post was to draw attention to the double standards of the Left who are quick to shout out anything bad associated with the West, but not anyone else. It is quite noticeable that not one of those who frequent these boards that I see as fairly far to the left of centre has made a single comment. Which sort of proves my point.
 
basilio said:
How about some perspective on the roles of the US and China in terms of wars and foreign interventions around the globe ?

In our recent past past the US invaded Iraq on trumped up lies (weapons of mass destruction..) and proceeded to totally destroy a nation. Cost them 2 Trillion dollars and rising.

Afghanistan was the next disaster. Overall the US history of interventions in foreign countries, overthrow of governments and projection of US global power has been unparalleled.

Does the US see China a threat to it's hitherto military/economic supremacy in SE Asia and is therefore determined to clip its wings ?

U.S. Wars and Hostile Actions: A List
threat-world-peace.jpg

There is a reason that most countries polled in December 2013 by Gallup called the United States the greatest threat to peace in the world, and why Pew found that viewpoint increased in 2017.

https://davidswanson.org/warlist/
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Iraqi already had numerous breeches before the weapons accusations.

Afghanistan was housing al Qaeda via the Taliban. I suppose you thought ISIS was a peaceful hugs movement.

Deflection of "the US is worse" with half baked facts isn't cutting it.

How many millions died under mao 35 million plus and that's their own people. Including the massacres and you could add another 5 million.
 
basilio said:
Your digging into an interminable can of worms their Smurf :eek:
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Most certainly.

I don't have the answers but it's much the same as any situation where someone's doing something "unacceptable" isn't it?

There are numerous situations where violation of some law is ignored since the conflict resulting from enforcing it is seen as worse than the offence being committed. The problem though is how far is too far?

How much can we tolerate in the name of avoiding consequences before it's too much?

I don't know the answers but I can see this being pushed until that point is reached. :2twocents
 
As bellenuit pointed out in Post #245, is this history repeating itself?

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Interestingly, there aren't any protests over this, anywhere?


China's ambassador challenged on treatment of Uighurs
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London: China's ambassador to Britain says he cannot rule out cases of Uighur women being sterilised in the Xinjiang region, after being confronted with footage of blindfolded and handcuffed prisoners being herded onto trains in Xinjiang on live television.

Liu Xiaoming appeared on The Andrew Marr Show on Sunday, to warn Britain that it would face a "resolute response" if it followed in the footsteps of the United States in sanctioning Chinese Communist Party officials over human rights abuses in Xinjiang, where more than one million Uighurs are thought to be imprisoned in re-education camps.​
 
President Xi Claims Uighurs Were Being Loaded Onto Trains For A 'Surprise Trip To Disneyland'

BEIJING—China has responded to allegations that Uighurs are being loaded onto trains and taken to concentration camps.


President Xi said Monday that the Uighurs are being rounded up, blindfolded, and loaded onto trains for a "surprise trip to Disneyland." According to the president of the Communist country, the minority group was corralled and put into trains and then taken to Shanghai Disneyland Park, where they got to ride the Peter Pan ride, Dumbo, the carousel, and more.

But, per order of President Xi, all Winnie the Pooh rides and references have been removed from the park.

"We just wanted to surprise them with a trip to the happiest place on earth," Xi said at a press conference. "Is that a crime? Well, I will have to check. It might be. But still, it would not be a crime for us. I mean, we write the rules. That means we cannot break them. That is science."

Ten frightened-looking scientists were then brought on stage to confirm Xi's statement. Nine out of ten said he was correct. The tenth has since gone missing, reportedly on a trip to Disneyland.

Disney also backed China's claims, saying that "whatever President Xi said is 110% true."

https://babylonbee.com/

Don't buy made in China.
 
China is commercialising, buying (by private individuals) into large areas of farmland and other businesses in Australia. Many of their students here are marrying Australians (have two relations have done that recently) flocking our universities, down a bit of late due to virus and Aussie Govmint being influenced by the Seppos.

However as America continues to prop up everything with money printing and little if any productivity behind it will soon be broke and a third world country.

We need to take care not to push China too hard in my opinion, Britain is too far away and just about broke also.
 
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