Is there a GOD?

[2020hindsight]

1. With our glut of wine, I wish he would com back and turn wine into water.
2. we are a manifestation of God loving God,
3. We can also use a positive construct - we can only know what life if like without a divine figure if we have had a divine figure.
4. The notion, which might be too convenient for some, is that a punishing God, or hell, disappears.
5. SATAN BE GONE.

1. Hek $20 - even I can turn wine into water !! (sadly undrinkable, but good enough for the cabbages out the back)

2. Are you saying that God is a narcissistic mystic statistic?
while at the same time is holistic, fatalistic, and futuristic,
occasionally seen as a simplistic, optimistic ballistic
even anachronistic, sensationistic, moralistic
or even a paternatistic, opportunistic idealistic
who doesnt like materialistic, sadistic hednoistics
or chavenistic, feudalistic, nationalistics
or pessimistic, socialistic, jingoistics?

Is that what you are saying? (Y/N please!)
That's very uncharacteristic of you.

3. well for the "divine figure" bit, I'm gonna have to refer that question to the wife
4. Like it. If outcome justifies the means, I like it. (alternatively, never learn about him in the first place )
5. yep, but Santa, you can stick around I guess. (damned confusing for the kids but what the heck - confusing too for that small country somewhere, where the newly converted Christians strung up Santa to a cross at Easter )

Mintman's question on chicken or the egg is relevant - but a better chance of a reasoned conclusion than this thread maybe. (PS eg Obviously a chicken was born right, and it was a mutant chicken right, and ummm, and then it was walking around one day, and thought, "geeps, what's that pain in my nether regions?", and low and behold, out came the first egg !!! - too easy.

PS never thought of myself as a bacteria before - specially not on a little toenail.
PS does that mean that Johhny Howard gets to be on the big topnail?

 

[Rafa]

I was forced to grow up in a strict church environment and as such saw too many inconsistences in religion to believe in a God.

there are incosistencies everywhere in life... its incosistency that defines our very existence and is present in everything we do.

We seem to be the only living organism on this planet who needs to have a God, yet all the others seem to exist okay without one.

is this true? if it is, why is that? could it simply be becuase there is one?


as for the chicken and the egg... we can go a lot further back, to the beginning of time...
i was watching a documentary on ABC about scientists trying to recreate the big bang...
they said something that was very pretinenet...
We can see the results of the big bang... and everyone has many theories on how that eventually led us to where we are today...
but no one knows what existed before the big bang... the big bang is always considered the point in time where time began... but what was going on before that?


just more questions, i don't pretend to have any of the answers...

 

[insider]

Yes... God wants you to vote on your preferred house... follow the link below

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=155323&highlight=prefer#post155323

 

[2020hindsight]

... the big bang is always considered the point in time where time began... but what was going on before that?..

sorry Rafa, but my intellectual faculties have not suffiently expanded in keeping with the universe to comprehend such delicately postulated fragments of intricate philosophical conjecture

PS after this thread, I'm going back to being a common old garden variety naturalistic pantheistic autistic.

 

[$20shoes]

1. Hek $20 - even I can turn wine into water !! (sadly undrinkable, but good enough for the cabbages out the back)

2. Are you saying that God is a narcissistic mystic statistic?
while at the same time is holistic, fatalistic, and futuristic,
occasionally seen as a simplistic, optimistic ballistic
even anachronistic, sensationistic, moralistic
or even a paternatistic, opportunistic idealistic
who doesnt like materialistic, sadistic hednoistics
or chavenistic, feudalistic, nationalistics
or pessimistic, socialistic, jingoistics?

Is that what you are saying? (Y/N please!)
That's very uncharacteristic of you.

3. well for the "divine figure" bit, I'm gonna have to refer that question to the wife
4. Like it. If outcome justifies the means, I like it. (alternatively, never learn about him in the first place )
5. yep, but Santa, you can stick around I guess. (damned confusing for the kids but what the heck - confusing too for that small country somewhere, where the newly converted Christians strung up Santa to a cross at Easter )

2) 2020, you've go my point all wrong. You seem to be confusing my argument with a diatribe from Dr Seuss. What I'm trying to say is that GOD finds himself a delicious, nutritious, babe-a-licious dish, that is somewhat prone to being vicious, without being overtly malicious.

3) Fair point, I often need to defer to my divine figure, or there is HELL to pay.

4) Yep, never did much enjoy the old Hell. I second the motion that we ditch this bad boy Satan once and for all. He has no place in modern day Australia. I suggest he be removed to Guantanamo, as he can be detained there indefinitely. The confusion arising from the whole Santa/Satan thing in the is thread alone, is a compelling enough reason to get rid of this puppy once and for all.

I'll meet you all soon with pitchfork at the ready.

 

[2020hindsight]

. What I'm trying to say is that GOD finds himself a delicious, nutritious,...

$20shoes - well you're miles ahead of me mate - and you're the first person I know to speculate on what God thinks of himself.

I think my "god" just watches silent from the sidelines, and silently wishes to himself that he'd chosen some other species to be caretaker of this particular planet

 

[Out Too Soon]

Oh! sorry! forgot about my new religion!
PASTAFARIAN check it out on Wikipedia.

 

[Out Too Soon]

$20shoes - well you're miles ahead of me mate - and you're the first person I know to speculate on what God thinks of himself.

I think my "god" just watches silent from the sidelines, and silently wishes to himself that he'd chosen some other species to be caretaker of this particular planet

Have you read Creation Memos by Geoffery Atkinson? Laugh, I never knew I could laugh so much at a filing cabinet full of memos, bills & building quotes.

 

[2020hindsight]

Yes... God wants you to vote on your preferred house... follow the link below

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=155323&highlight=prefer#post155323

HEY!! Insider!! lol - that was a clever con!! lol - you'll have us suspecting you really do have a "car for us", dodgey bros style, lol.
While you're at it, Here's a poll you can /could find on chasers (which incidentally is on tonight

ps i voted for the permanent long lasting house - and for the cheap price ok

 

[2020hindsight]

An only half serious study of early house building in Britain - starting with the bricks to build Stonehenge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTQtlaofjoI&mode=related&search=

and back to thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRwfwYGTPd8&mode=related&search= The Epilogue - Spike Milligan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMfzeHRD3xg&mode=related&search= Spike Milligan's obituary 1982

 

[wayneL]

Oh! sorry! forgot about my new religion!
PASTAFARIAN check it out on Wikipedia.

I like pasta.

Heres another new "religion" - apparently a few percent of people listed jediiism as their religion. http://www.thejediismway.org/

They look pretty fair dinkum too... nice site, but must be the first religion to be started by a movie?

What is a Jedi? I don’t know how many times this question has been asked in multiple forums and by multiple people ranging from newcomers to people who have called themselves Jedi for years. There are two things that need to be stated up front before we start discussing what a Jedi is. The first thing is, the Jedi’s path is a way of living, thinking, and believing. It is an individualistic path; therefore it is impossible to lay out a detailed road map and say every Jedi does X, Y, and Z. The second thing is that we all come from very different lives, histories, and locations. Customs, beliefs, and other factors will be different from society to society, and sometimes these differences will be great. As Jedi, we need to remember that just because something is wrong, disgusting, and etc. to us, doesn’t mean people in a different cultures don’t look at what we do and say the same thing.

As mentioned above, the life of a Jedi is a very individualist path, however, there is a foundation which a majority of Jedi share, whether it is openly stated or kept to private. The Jedi Way is much like a house. Every house must have a foundation in order for the house to stand. If there is no foundation or if the foundation is faulty the house will fall. When the foundation is sturdy the house will be strong and will stand for all time. Each house has the commonality of the foundation, however, above that foundation, is where everything changes. Each house is different in its own way. Some houses are shaped differently, have different colors, are designed differently inside, and etc. Even though each house is different and unique does not mean it still does not share the same aspects in a foundation. Below you will find the foundation of a Jedi.


-A Jedi knows, is, and works with and within The Force. A Jedi studies the Force, uses, and helps the growth of the Force. A Jedi is to be guided, influenced, and helped by the Force and also relies on the Force.

-A Jedi follows the Jedi code, or a code that contains the same lessons and principals of the Jedi code.

-A Jedi must contain the qualities found in the Truisms or Maxims. For these are the qualities that show who we are through actions and words. However they may be worded through different versions and personal interpretations these qualities still must be present in all Jedi.

-A Jedi works to preserve individual freedom. Freedom is the ability to choose for yourself. Countries have laws in place to protect freedoms of the individual, however at times those laws step beyond that ability. It is our duty through the Truisms to peacefully and lawfully work towards changing that, with what ability we have. To take away someone else’s choice is against what the Jedi stand for.



Now it is known that not every Jedi will agree with everything mentioned here. However, we feel this is what makes up the foundation of a Jedi. As you can see there is room for interpretation and above this it is your own path, however, what you see above must be present for a Jedi to be a Jedi.

 

[BIG BWACULL]

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative” Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

 

[2020hindsight]

Have you read Creation Memos by Geoffery Atkinson? Laugh, I never knew I could laugh so much at a filing cabinet full of memos, bills & building quotes.

Well I for one haven't mate, sounds great - will check it out. -
Anything to do with this ?:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlZ1O2Roh0

As for the Pastafarians - gives a new meaning to saying Grace doesn't it lol. "thank you paster for all this pasta we are about to eat".
mind warping.

"forgive us pasta for I have sinned - I ate your brother" etc

 

[weird]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html

Collins: Why this scientist believes in God
POSTED: 9:37 a.m. EDT, April 6, 2007
By Dr. Francis Collins

Editor's note: Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., is the director of the Human Genome Project. His most recent book is "The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief."

ROCKVILLE, Maryland (CNN) -- I am a scientist and a believer, and I find no conflict between those world views.

As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God's language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God's plan.

I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked "What do you believe, doctor?", I began searching for answers.

I had to admit that the science I loved so much was powerless to answer questions such as "What is the meaning of life?" "Why am I here?" "Why does mathematics work, anyway?" "If the universe had a beginning, who created it?" "Why are the physical constants in the universe so finely tuned to allow the possibility of complex life forms?" "Why do humans have a moral sense?" "What happens after we die?" (Watch Francis Collins discuss how he came to believe in God Video)

I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds. My earlier atheist's assertion that "I know there is no God" emerged as the least defensible. As the British writer G.K. Chesterton famously remarked, "Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative."

But reason alone cannot prove the existence of God. Faith is reason plus revelation, and the revelation part requires one to think with the spirit as well as with the mind. You have to hear the music, not just read the notes on the page. Ultimately, a leap of faith is required.

For me, that leap came in my 27th year, after a search to learn more about God's character led me to the person of Jesus Christ. Here was a person with remarkably strong historical evidence of his life, who made astounding statements about loving your neighbor, and whose claims about being God's son seemed to demand a decision about whether he was deluded or the real thing. After resisting for nearly two years, I found it impossible to go on living in such a state of uncertainty, and I became a follower of Jesus.

So, some have asked, doesn't your brain explode? Can you both pursue an understanding of how life works using the tools of genetics and molecular biology, and worship a creator God? Aren't evolution and faith in God incompatible? Can a scientist believe in miracles like the resurrection?

Actually, I find no conflict here, and neither apparently do the 40 percent of working scientists who claim to be believers. Yes, evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things.

But why couldn't this be God's plan for creation? True, this is incompatible with an ultra-literal interpretation of Genesis, but long before Darwin, there were many thoughtful interpreters like St. Augustine, who found it impossible to be exactly sure what the meaning of that amazing creation story was supposed to be. So attaching oneself to such literal interpretations in the face of compelling scientific evidence pointing to the ancient age of Earth and the relatedness of living things by evolution seems neither wise nor necessary for the believer.

I have found there is a wonderful harmony in the complementary truths of science and faith. The God of the Bible is also the God of the genome. God can be found in the cathedral or in the laboratory. By investigating God's majestic and awesome creation, science can actually be a means of worship.

 

[2020hindsight]

Considering the Pope is even opting out of the "intelligent design" debate.. (see fourth quote below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zs7dDMdepg&mode=related&search= South Park Theory of Evolution &The Simpsons Evolution Intro

for the following, I recommend turning the sound down ( irrelevant distraction) and I found I had to pause frequently to let the various messages sink in - and allow me time to think of some counter arguments - not that I could come up with any

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnu-O5x_pRU&NR=1
Why Creationists are WRONG about MacroEvolution
Here I show how creationists are wrong when it comes to MacroEvolution (MaE). MaE is defined as evolution at or above the species level. This means MaE includes speciation. Despite what creationists say there are examples of new species occurring in nature, and scientists have produced new species in the lab. Many creationists claim that MaE means there must be a huge change in appearance. This is false. Many sister species, existing in the same genus and the cases we have of new species occurring in nature, share many characteristics. A new species of mosquito will still resemble a mosquito, and a new species of worm will still resemble a worm. Only after many speciation events will large changes begin to accumulate. This may take tens to hundreds of millions of years. etc

.........My point here is, MacroEvolution includes speciation, and speciation has been observed in nature and in the lab. Also, MicroEvolutionary steps can result in speciation. Scientists do not doubt MacroEvolution, but they do debate how and under what circumstances it occurs.

For a good read on MacroEvolution go to: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/macro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX_WH1bq5HQ&mode=related&search= Evidence for Evolution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2SVMKZhV2g&mode=related&search=
Why Intelligent Design is WRONG
In this video I show why the central tenant of Intelligent Design or ID is wrong. They argue they can tell when an object is "designed", meaning it could not have arisen by chance, but their logic is fatally flawed. Here I will actually simulate evolution showing how impossibly improbable outcomes can appear quite easily, without anything being designed.....

etc

This on ABC:- Pope airs views on evolution http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...4/s1895066.htm
Pope airs views on evolution ..By Rafael Epstein . Pope Benedict has expressed his views on evolution for the first time in his papacy, saying evolution and religion can coexist. The Pope has made the comments in a new book titled Creation and Evolution.

The Pope has not endorsed the religion-based theory 'intelligent design' which has been criticised for being another version of Creationism. He had been thought of as endorsing that view after a recent book written by a former close adviser.

But the Pope also says the Darwinian theory of evolution is not completely provable because mutations over hundreds of thousands of years cannot be reproduced in a laboratory. He says the evolution debate is about one of the great fundamental questions of philosophy - where man and the world came from and where they are going.

 

[Robroy]

You would just about have to be God yourself to say there was no God and you knew that for sure.

But the the reasons a God is highly unlikely IMO are:

1. The universe (Big Bang) did not require a supervening force to come into existence, or remain in existence. (Read Paul Davies' 'God & The New Physics' - he outlines it in some detail.) It was capable of doing it spontaneously.

2. The organic world (life - including us) did not require a God to come into existence either. The spontaneous exchange of sub-cellular information in the primeval soup led to cells...and the rest is history.

3. Religion is adaptive (it helped H. sapiens to survive), so we are hard-wired to be inclined to believe in a God. That gives rise to a huge panoply of emotions, deeply-held beliefs and convictions, and cherished ideals (to say nothing of religions, spiritual groups, et al) - all of them subjective experiences caused by our neural wiring, with no corresponding reality outside of that wiring.

4. The human brain has in the last 25 years been sufficiently mapped to give us an understanding of how 'spiritual experiences' arise. (This mainly applies to the more Eastern- and 'inner journey'-oriented God-believers.) E.g. your sense of timelessness arises when one part of the brain is temporarily lulled, your sense of 'the presence of a superior power' arises when another part is stimulated, etc etc. That's why religions chant, pray, meditate and sometimes dance rhythmically: these things lull/stir the central nervous system in the required ways. It's well-understood stuff now.

5. In the entirety of human history, there has not been a single piece of evidence for the existence of God. This period includes the 200-odd year history of science, and the 100+ year history of cameras, film and audio recording devices. Not a photo, not a single pulse of data - in all of known time.

If you believe in God you do so because your brain (the product of a million years of human and pre-human evolution) has provided you with a religious /spiritual impulse, not because there is anything divine out there, in there, or anywhere else.

I personally find this sad by the way - I understand the desire to have a God in the Universe. But me wanting doesn't make it so.

 

[weird]

2020hindsight vs Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., is the director of the Human Genome Project.

Interesting ....

 

[AJ_]

hello,

in answer to your question Tech, yes I beleive in God...

i saw this post by bobby

I've seen things that no god would or could allow.

There is no god, but if there were what a pathetic grub! Seen the sufferings Your god has been succour in

Bobby.

As a Christian I beleive that God loved the world enough to send His Son to earth (John 3:16), who was crucified for our sins... so even God has suffered, gone through things that 'no god could allow'

anyway, an interesting book if you're really interested is called "The case for Faith" by Lee Strobel,

just thought id say something since i voted in the poll

anthony

 

[Bobby]

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative” Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

Gee thats so close to the truth !!

Good one Big Bwaacull

 

[weird]

Robroy, I think that, Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., director of the Human Genome Project, probabably feels sad for those that don't believe as well.