Is there a GOD?

[roland]

One thing of note that I have observed is that people with strong beliefs in GOD seem to be happier and more content in their belief than the people who put themselves forward as non believers.

 

[explod]

One thing of note that I have observed is that people with strong beliefs in GOD seem to be happier and more content in their belief than the people who put themselves forward as non believers.

Yes we instinctively want to be guided and looked after as we were as children. However I was an equiring person and wanted to learn for myself so became much happier as I progressed away from religion.

So moving on from religion is sort of growing up and standing on your own two feet. IMVVHO of course

 

[jonojpsg]

Yes we instinctively want to be guided and looked after as we were as children. However I was an equiring person and wanted to learn for myself so became much happier as I progressed away from religion.

So moving on from religion is sort of growing up and standing on your own two feet. IMVVHO of course

Mate, growing up?? I was brought up in the church, baptist minister for a dad who had an affair when I was twelve and that stuffed my belief. Well, until I grew up and realised that smoking dope and drinking my way through life was probably not going to cut it and that once I actually put my "reasonably" intelligent (IQ 135) mind to it (that had done engineering and teaching degrees), I could see that there was far more to the arguments for the existence of God, and that it really was a pretty arrogant position to take to think that we could explain away God with some mathematics and science.

 

[roland]

Yes we instinctively want to be guided and looked after as we were as children. However I was an equiring person and wanted to learn for myself so became much happier as I progressed away from religion.

So moving on from religion is sort of growing up and standing on your own two feet. IMVVHO of course

I personally agree, religion and cute stories in Sunday School did no harm in setting me up as a nice person.

Being interested in science and history helped with an enquiring mind and enabled my free thinking - this of course is in conflict with the fantasy world of religion.

 

[Wysiwyg]

One thing of note that I have observed is that people with strong beliefs in GOD seem to be happier and more content in their belief than the people who put themselves forward as non believers.

And in that is the importance of peaceful religions on Earth.

 

[bellenuit]

One thing of note that I have observed is that people with strong beliefs in GOD seem to be happier and more content in their belief than the people who put themselves forward as non believers.

Possibly because the non-believers who have had a religious upbringing must contend with the psychological damage done to them when they were at a very vulnerable age by continually being told that if they lost their faith they would suffer eternal damnation. It is very hard to leave that baggage behind and I suspect a lot of believers believe because that is the easier thing to do.

 

[GumbyLearner]

If there is, I hope he doesn't mind me operating within my own subjectively-based acceptable boundary limits. : If not, oh well I'm only a rational and logical being after all.

 

[Mr J]

One thing of note that I have observed is that people with strong beliefs in GOD seem to be happier and more content in their belief than the people who put themselves forward as non believers.

Let's consider two people. The first is told they have a supernatural lord and friend that will always be with them and listen to their troubles. They're told their friend has a plan for them, and that when they pass on they will enter into paradise for eternity. The second is not told any of this. Which is more likely to be happy and stress-free?

 

[Julia]

Possibly because the non-believers who have had a religious upbringing must contend with the psychological damage done to them when they were at a very vulnerable age by continually being told that if they lost their faith they would suffer eternal damnation. It is very hard to leave that baggage behind and I suspect a lot of believers believe because that is the easier thing to do.

That's a thoughtful and insightful observation, bellenuit, as usual.

 

[tunrida]

I recently listened to an eBook that was a series of 24 lectures by Bart Ehrman covering the history of Christianity from the period of Jesus to Constantine.

Fascinating stuff. What I found most interesting was that:

• It was likely that Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic prophet preaching that the King of the Jews would come and deliver them to the Kingdom of God. It was a common belief of the day. The king would be a mortal man and the Kingdom was a physical place on Earth.

• There were several different Christianities with markedly different views on worship, Jesus's birth and mortality and God. The main three were the Ebionites, the Marcionites and the Gnostics. These were dominant through the 2nd century AD with what is today's orthodox Christianity ultimately being a blend of the Ebionites and Marcionites not exerting itself until into the 3rd century AD. What we know as Christianity today was ultimately successful as it was the form of Christianity that was popular in Rome and the wealth and power from within Rome saw all other forms branded heretical.

• The four canonical gospels were written anonymously (i.e. not actually by the apostles themselves) and all differ significantly. With Mark considered the earliest with subsequent gospels built off Mark and another lost document scholars call Q. There are also many other gospels from around this time that were not included.

• Apostle Paul, who is historically considered as significant as Jesus for the development of Christianity, never knew Jesus and was initially a Jewish Pharisee who persecuted Christians. He did not preach the teachings of Jesus but essentially founded the religion that preaches the religion of Jesus and built up the significance of the death of Jesus and his resurrection being crucial to salvation of the sins of the world.

So what is Christianity today is nothing like what was preached by Jesus the Jew or the early Christ based forms of Christianity but a much later homogenised interpretation authorised and implemented by Rome based factions.

Concurs with a book by historical writer Colin Cross called "who was Jesus" which I came across in the 70's. Agree fascinating when considering the current religions have drifted so far from the facts.

 

[symmetry]

i guess beleiving in a man made up theory of anything else that dispells the need for God, is easy. thus giving you no accoutablilty for nay actions you do, there are way to many scientific and historical facts to waiver the existance of God. i admire anyones faith in not believing in God or beleiving we come from monkeys or small cells into very complex ones.

The model of how things came to being fits much closer to God / creation than evolution , so hats off to all you much bigger faith than me.

BUT if your wrong even slightly guess ingonoring it will be the biggest risk in life you ever take.

if your quite happy to take for granted the faith of chair will hold you up, or the wall you lean on will not fall ? must go around checkign everythign for secuirty and live on egg shells ..

enjoy your day

 

[Duckman#72]

One thing of note that I have observed is that people with strong beliefs in GOD seem to be happier and more content in their belief than the people who put themselves forward as non believers.

Maybe it is just psychological. The phrase "I believe in God and religion" is a positive affirming phrase. The phrase "I don't believe in God or religion" has a negative undertone.

People that say "I can achieve whatever I try to do" are more likely to be happy, successful and fulfilled than those that say "I never achieve what I try to do."

Possibly because the non-believers who have had a religious upbringing must contend with the psychological damage done to them when they were at a very vulnerable age by continually being told that if they lost their faith they would suffer eternal damnation. It is very hard to leave that baggage behind and I suspect a lot of believers believe because that is the easier thing to do.

Bellenuit, with due respect, surely you have tongue firmly in cheek.

I would suggest the number of "non-believers", who had a religious upbringing, who are genuinely unhappy with their life, as a direct consequence of psychological damage caused by the continual threat of eternal damnation would account for an extremely small percentage. (For a start I don't think anyone under the age of 50 would have even been exposed to "the continual threat of eternal damnation" - most of the religious orders haven't spoken like that for decades!!).

There would be 1000 more valid and common reasons why "non-believers" were unhappy and discontented before blaming "the threat of eternal damnation". Most of my family of "non-believers" just ..."could give a ****". At least they are honest and don't try to hide behind a "Church Destroyed My Life" headline.

Is the irony lost on anyone else? Even when people won't have a bar of religion in their lives, religion still manages to get the blame for their unhappiness!

Duckman

 

[Duckman#72]

One thing of note that I have observed is that people with strong beliefs in GOD seem to be happier and more content in their belief than the people who put themselves forward as non believers.

Maybe it is just psychological. The phrase "I believe in God and religion" is a positive affirming phrase. The phrase "I don't believe in God or religion" has a negative undertone.

People that say "I can achieve whatever I try to do" are more likely to be happy, successful and fulfilled than those that say "I never achieve what I try to do."

Possibly because the non-believers who have had a religious upbringing must contend with the psychological damage done to them when they were at a very vulnerable age by continually being told that if they lost their faith they would suffer eternal damnation. It is very hard to leave that baggage behind and I suspect a lot of believers believe because that is the easier thing to do.

Bellenuit, with due respect, surely you have tongue firmly in cheek.

I would suggest the number of "non-believers", who had a religious upbringing, who are genuinely unhappy with their life, as a direct consequence of psychological damage caused by the continual threat of eternal damnation would account for an extremely small percentage. (For a start I don't think anyone under the age of 50 who have even been exposed to "the continual threat of eternal damnation" - most of the religious orders haven't spoken like that for decades!!).

There would be 1000 more valid and common reasons why "non-believers" were unhappy and discontented before blaming "the threat of eternal damnation". Most of my family of "non-believers" just ..."could give a ****". At least they are honest and don't try to hide behind a "Church Destroyed My Life" headline.

Is the irony lost on anyone else? Even when people won't have a bar of religion in their lives, religion still manages to get the blame for their unhappiness!

Duckman

 

[GumbyLearner]

Maybe it is just psychological. The phrase "I believe in God and religion" is a positive affirming phrase. The phrase "I don't believe in God or religion" has a negative undertone.

People that say "I can achieve whatever I try to do" are more likely to be happy, successful and fulfilled than those that say "I never achieve what I try to do."



Bellenuit, with due respect, surely you have tongue firmly in cheek.

I would suggest the number of "non-believers", who had a religious upbringing, who are genuinely unhappy with their life, as a direct consequence of psychological damage caused by the continual threat of eternal damnation would account for an extremely small percentage. (For a start I don't think anyone under the age of 50 would have even been exposed to "the continual threat of eternal damnation" - most of the religious orders haven't spoken like that for decades!!).

There would be 1000 more valid and common reasons why "non-believers" were unhappy and discontented before blaming "the threat of eternal damnation". Most of my family of "non-believers" just ..."could give a ****". At least they are honest and don't try to hide behind a "Church Destroyed My Life" headline.

Is the irony lost on anyone else? Even when people won't have a bar of religion in their lives, religion still manages to get the blame for their unhappiness!

Duckman

Well put Duckman.

All I can say is operate within acceptable boundary limits and you will be fine.
Step inside my boundary limits and look out!!

Disclaimer: God and neither the devil are on my team.

 

[bellenuit]

There would be 1000 more valid and common reasons why "non-believers" were unhappy and discontented before blaming "the threat of eternal damnation". Most of my family of "non-believers" just ..."could give a ****". At least they are honest and don't try to hide behind a "Church Destroyed My Life" headline.

Is the irony lost on anyone else? Even when people won't have a bar of religion in their lives, religion still manages to get the blame for their unhappiness!

Duckman. The quote I was responding to was not about unhappiness in one's life or about the Church destroyed my life type of thing. It was about being happy and content in their belief or in their non-belief in the case of non-believers. It is harder to hold a position that your earlier upbringing has told you leads to damnation compared to a position that your earlier upbringing has told you leads to eternal happiness.

I watched one of the Dawkins TV series about two years ago when he was touring the Bible belt in the US. One preacher he interviewed actually said that he preaches about eternal damnation just to instil fear in his younger congregation because they are then less likely to question their faith if they fear eternal damnation and to him that is all that mattered.

If what I said isn't the case, why do so many believers use the Pascall argument for maintaining a belief. If a believer is wrong then he loses nothing, but if a non-believer is wrong then he is forever damned.

I personally am very satisfied and content with my life and would be regarded by my friends as someone who is a happy person. But when it comes to my beliefs, I had a lot of psychological baggage to overcome when I rejected Christianity and started referring to myself as an atheist, even though the more I examined Christianity and a belief in a God in particular, the more nonsensical it seemed. And yes, I am one of those over 50.

This is what I responded to:

One thing of note that I have observed is that people with strong beliefs in GOD seem to be happier and more content in their belief than the people who put themselves forward as non believers.

 

[wayneL]

<broken record>I think the title of this thread should be "Is There A Christian/Abrahamic God?".

Read up on "Attitude Polarization" folks.

There are only two possibilities being considered here - 1/ There is no God. We are a freak of chemistry. 2/ There is God as described in the Bible.

I reject both arguments for some other possibility.</broken record>

This thread was better back when there were other more creative views.

 

[GumbyLearner]

<broken record>I think the title of this thread should be "Is There A Christian/Abrahamic God?".

Read up on "Attitude Polarization" folks.

There are only two possibilities being considered here - 1/ There is no God. We are a freak of chemistry. 2/ There is God as described in the Bible.

I reject both arguments for some other possibility.</broken record>

This thread was better back when there were other more creative views.

well said wayneL.

I continue to operate within acceptable boundary limits until some cultural marxist tells me not to do so. Then I will still operate within my own determined limits. They can shove their beliefs where the sun don't shine.

 

[explod]

<broken record>I think the title of this thread should be "Is There A Christian/Abrahamic God?".

Read up on "Attitude Polarization" folks.

There are only two possibilities being considered here - 1/ There is no God. We are a freak of chemistry. 2/ There is God as described in the Bible.

I reject both arguments for some other possibility.</broken record>

This thread was better back when there were other more creative views.

The demograph of ASF'ers attacted to this thread would be baby boomers or older. That age group in Australia were probably 60% plus exposed to serious Christianity (fire and brimstone). Therefore the passion of this thread is and will probably stay in situ till exhausted, (and we most be close) on the line articulated in the last sentence.

And thanks WayneL for the uncreative little plug, very down to earth.

 

[ducati916]

<broken record>I think the title of this thread should be "Is There A Christian/Abrahamic God?".

Read up on "Attitude Polarization" folks.

There are only two possibilities being considered here - 1/ There is no God. We are a freak of chemistry. 2/ There is God as described in the Bible.

I reject both arguments for some other possibility.</broken record>

This thread was better back when there were other more creative views.

Hang on chap's, I'm just warming-up on the sideline!

jog on
duc

 

[GumbyLearner]

Hang on chap's, I'm just warming-up on the sideline!

jog on
duc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel

This dude has been warming up too. For over 250 years. LOL