Is there a GOD?

[2020hindsight]

If believing in god makes you happy, then do so. If believing in god makes you feel unhappy, then don't.

If you'r in company with people who believe in god, and you don't, then pretend you do. If you are in the company of people who don't believe in god, and you do, pretend you don't.

If you want to believe in god one day and not the next, then, that's OK too. If you want to believe in god and not believe in god, both at the same time, such are the uncertainties in life, no problem, that's OK too...

I was wondering if that policy could be extended ... and whether there's a limit??

"If you're in company with people who believe in dog, and you don't, then pretend you do"?? - ok I guess.
If you're in company with people who believe in cat, and you don't, then pretend you do. - so far so good ...

ahhh - reminds me m8, lol - I went out for a few drinks with a Senior member of a Main Roads Dept in Newcastle once - talking bridges as usual.
anyway we end up in a gay bar at midnight.

sorry , - your formula isn't universally applicable lol.

 

[2020hindsight]

If you'r in company with people who believe in god, and you don't, then pretend you do. If you are in the company of people who don't believe in god, and you do, pretend you don't.

ADVICE TO A SON SHOULD HE ACCIDENTALLY END UP IN A GAY BAR

if you find that the bar’s smiling at you intently
there’s no need to force a smile back
and don’t stroke your mate's back insipid or gently
just give it a bludy great whack.....

but ... I'll BET you the answer will NATURALLY spring
to your mind, neither crude nor provocative...
just think of Paul Robeson – gee that man could sing !!!
..........
watch your voice go down an octave.

 

[Wysiwyg]

From an eternal point of view, belief in a god is part of the human race evolution and will be (or is?) a blip on the time scale.With our mortality set at about 80 to over 100 years on average and with our gradually developing (once again in a time perspective) intelligence it will come to be that myths and beliefs will be replaced by knowledge and fact.The diehards will cling desperately to a belief of course for truth and fact to an ancient belief is embarrassing.
They vow (narrow mindedly i.m.o.) to carry it on and truth or fact mean nothing to the ignorant.

Simple nature or a man made reasoning!

 

[2020hindsight]

.... it will come to be that myths and beliefs will be replaced by knowledge and fact....

gday m8

you're probably right - whilstever he continues to be so difficult to either prove or disprove, God will continue to evolve (like everying else)

 

[jonojpsg]

Funny how arrogant it sounds when we talk about how our belief in God actually affects whether he exists or not?! Surely the existence of the universe is proof enough - how else did it/we get here?

 

[2020hindsight]

Funny how arrogant it sounds when we talk about how our belief in God actually affects whether he exists or not?! Surely the existence of the universe is proof enough - how else did it/we get here?

jono
but if you can't accept that the universe "always was" (in whatever form)
then why do you accept that god "always was"?
what's the difference?

Maybe there are two twin gods, and one becomes spirit for a while while the other exists as mud and matter and starstuff - then every now and then there's another big bang, and they swap roles. (?) - like handing over the baton if you like.

 

[BHP]

Funny how arrogant it sounds when we talk about how our belief in God actually affects whether he exists or not?! Surely the existence of the universe is proof enough - how else did it/we get here?

Hmmm... So your logic then is because the universe exists there must have been a creator. Question. Who created the creator?

The existence of the universe does not prove God exists. It is simply the conclusion you jump to. I don't know how the universe came to exist, and probably never will know, but I am not going to be arrogant enough to argue that God created it when really you just don't know.

The existence of something is proven once it is observed/touched/measured. Until someone can provide proof that God exists then God is nothing more real than the Easter Bunny.

In fact the universe was probably created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster
http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

 

[Tysonboss1]

Yes there is a god,...

It's name is OIL and he comes by the barrel.

 

[2020hindsight]

Yes there is a god,...

It's name is OIL and he comes by the barrel.

maybe two gods tyson...
one's crude
and one's refined

 

[Pat]

maybe two gods tyson...
one's crude
and one's refined

Happy god and revengeful god

 

[Rapture]

Funny how arrogant it sounds when we talk about how our belief in God actually affects whether he exists or not?! Surely the existence of the universe is proof enough - how else did it/we get here?

So does the existance of a universe = the existance of a GOD ?

That's it ??

You don't feel that being higher intelligent beings there is a little more thought/analysis required ?

Sounds like the classic "it is because I said so" rational . Hasn't education led us to take the "but why ?" approach..

Let me ask you another question then ... By saying that God exists are you also saying the the Bible is true ?

 

[moneymajix]

Hello!

 

[Aargh!]

Whilst I don't normally openly criticise ones beliefs in front of them I find it very difficult to understand ones justifications for believing in a god or religion.
I guess it comes down to the fact that its a human trait to have to justify life, love, death, etc. I think it is a weak and medieval thought to believe that something/someone is controlling creation and creations just because we don't have definitive proof otherwise.
The idea that the universe was created is ludicrous. Why make up some extravagant story about a supreme being? I think we need to look at the time period these thoughts became staple to answer this. Religious groups had enormous power and would do anything to keep it.
I'm surprised with the number of people in this thread believe in god. I would have thought that all here were reasonably-logically thinking individuals (with the collective aim of this forum) would stand back and questions what is force fed to a large number of us.
Surely we all can understand evolution. We see it every day of our lives, it might not be to the extent us forming into horned, red skinned, pointy tailed beings but more to the tune of learning from mistakes we make.
The one with the most control over our own lives is ourselves.

 

[Rapture]

I agree Aargh..

Religion was/is but a means of controlling the masses . If we go back and look at history, religion has been the source of many evils.. Take, as an example, the Medieval ( only because you used this example) prosecutions .. anyone who questioned The Church was silenced . At the root of most wars and terrorism lies religion ...

Religion breeds fear . And out of fear comes control. Control of your current life in exchange for the promised eternal life of milk and honey in the Kingdom of God -

... but if I stop and think about it if it's a land of promised Longs ...... then I might just convert :

 

[skint]

maybe two gods tyson...
one's crude
and one's refined

Some of your best work right there 20/20

 

[2020hindsight]

lol - not original m8

Cheney - he’s like a barrel of oil –
both crude and yet refined, lol

"Dick Cheney" by Roy Zimmerman

"Let's Go After the Buddhists" by Roy Zimmerman

 

[MS+Tradesim]

The existence of something is proven once it is observed/touched/measured. Until someone can provide proof that God exists then God is nothing more real than the Easter Bunny.[/URL]

When was the last time you observed/touched/measured an idea?

Hmmm... So your logic then is because the universe exists there must have been a creator. Question. Who created the creator?

People actually still think this is a logical objection?! There are only three possibilities.
1) The universe created itself
2) The universe is uncreated
3) Something/someone created the universe

1) is impossible. It would need to exist prior to itself in order to create itself.
2) has been shown wrong. The universe had a beginning.
3) hence, something/someone created the universe

While this does not prove God, it shows the universe had a creator. Some entity brought it into existence. Who created the creator? This is the old parlour trick of infinite causal regresses which are just logically impossible. Something somewhere exists causelessly, timelessly and is the ground of being for all things which begin to exist. The fact that at least one thing exists proves that there is an uncaused entity somewhere. Some scientists, not liking the idea of God, have posited a multiverse of billions of universes. Hey presto! A god to fill in the gaps. We'll just call it a multiverse, wave a cloth and hope no-one notices it is not a scientific hypothesis because it CANNOT be tested by the methods of science as one cannot get outside this universe in order to check out its feasibility. So whether or not you like it, ultimately everyone makes certain basic assumptions about reality which are untestable and unprovable. Pick one. Just don't consider yourself more logical, rational or enlightened because you picked a different one to someone else.

Rapture wrote:

At the root of most wars and terrorism lies religion ...

Really? We won't discuss Ho Chi Minh, Mao, Lenin and so on cause they show the unbelievers can be pretty horrible too.

 

[2020hindsight]

sadly these are a bit bumpy (and some are off topic - others earlier were on topic of course) - but brilliant nonetheless

"Saddam Shame" by Roy Zimmerman

"Thanks For the Support" by Roy Zimmerman

 

[2020hindsight]

When was the last time you observed/touched/measured an idea?

People actually still think this is a logical objection?! There are only three possibilities.
1) The universe created itself
2) The universe is uncreated
3) Something/someone created the universe

1) is impossible. It would need to exist prior to itself in order to create itself.
2) has been shown wrong. The universe had a beginning.
3) hence, something/someone created the universe

While this does not prove God, it shows the universe had a creator. Some entity brought it into existence. Who created the creator? This is the old parlour trick of infinite causal regresses which are just logically impossible......

what the heck?

observed :- people as I drove past today
touched :- the files at work today
measured:- the diameter of a piece of steel today - I can tell you it exists

as for parlour tricks - here's a bit of Grecian logic to consider...

1. Ancient Greek Sylligism....“From nothing, nothing comes; Something is, therefore something eternally was”

Then this one , which is all about logic

http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Syllogism syllogism, a mode of argument that forms the core of the body of Western logical thought. Aristotle defined syllogistic logic, and his formulations were thought to be the final word in logic; they underwent only minor revisions in the subsequent 2,200 years. Every syllogism is a sequence of three propositions such that the first two imply the third, the conclusion. There are three basic types of syllogism: hypothetical, disjunctive, and categorical. etc

 

[MS+Tradesim]

what the heck?

observed :- people as I drove past today
touched :- the files at work today
measured:- the diameter of a piece of steel today - I can tell you it exists

Observe, touch or measure an idea.

As for the rest, there doesn't seem to be a point, so I'm not sure.