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thanks Julia,I'm going to stick up for the Mormons. Several years ago I was laid up following an accident and worrying about stuff like cleaning the pool, mowing the lawns etc. .... They left me their phone number and assured me they'd be back promptly if they could do anything more. So my heartfelt thanks to two young Americans who were a great advertisement for their beliefs.
And if my disclosures regarding the terrible Ujijian slavery should lead to the suppression of the East Coast slave trade, I shall regard that as a greater matter by far than the discovery of all the Nile sources together” — Livingstone in a letter to the editor of the New York Herald.[5]
Livingstone completely lost contact with the outside world for six years .... Henry Morton Stanley, who had been sent in a publicity stunt to find him by the New York Herald newspaper in 1869, found Livingstone in the town of Ujiji on the shores of Lake Tanganyika on November 10, 1871,[9] greeting him with the words "Dr. Livingstone, I presume?"
...
Despite Stanley's urgings, Livingstone was determined not to leave Africa until his mission was complete. His illness made him confused and he had judgment difficulties at the end of his life. .....[6]
He died in that area in Chief Chitambo's village at Ilala southeast of Lake Bangweulu in Zambia, on 4 May 1873 from malaria and internal bleeding caused by dysentery. .....Livingstone's heart was buried under a Mvula tree near the spot where he died, now the site of the Livingstone Memorial. His body together with his journal was carried over a thousand miles by his loyal attendants Chuma and Susi, and was returned to Britain for burial in Westminster Abbey.
Livingstone’s legacy
By the late 1860s Livingstone’s reputation in Europe had suffered ...His reputation was rehabilitated by Stanley and his newspaper,[3] and by the loyalty of Livingstone's servants whose long journey with his body inspired wonder. The publication of his last journal revealed stubborn determination in the face of suffering.[2]
He had made geographical discoveries for European knowledge. He inspired abolitionists of the slave trade, explorers and missionaries. He opened up Central Africa to missionaries who initiated the education and health care for Africans, and trade by the African Lakes Company. He was held in some esteem by many African chiefs and local people and his name facilitated relations between them and the British.[2]
Partly as a result, within fifty years of his death, colonial rule was established in Africa and white settlement was encouraged to extend further into the interior.
On the other hand, within a further fifty years after that, two other aspects of his legacy paradoxically helped end the colonial era in Africa without excessive bloodshed. Livingstone was part of an evangelical and nonconformist movement in Britain which during the 19th Century changed the national mindset from the notion of a divine right to rule ‘lesser races’, to ethical ideas in foreign policy which, with other factors, contributed to the end the British Empire.[10] Secondly, Africans educated in mission schools founded by people inspired by Livingstone were at the forefront of national independence movements in central, eastern and southern Africa.[11]
didn't spend enough time with his kids? lol - that's the same problem I had lolFamily Life
While Livingstone had a great impact on British Imperialism, he did so at a tremendous cost to his family. In his absences, his children grew up fatherless, and his wife eventually died of an alcohol related illness. His one regret in later life was that he did not spend enough time with his children
David Livingstone (19 March 1813 – 4 May 1873) was a Scottish Presbyterian pioneer medical missionary with the London Missionary Society and explorer in central Africa. He was the first European to see Victoria Falls, which he named in honour of the reigning monarch. ...
Influences on the young David Livingstone
David Livingstone's father Neil was very religious, a Sunday School teacher and teetotaller who handed out Christian tracts on his travels as a tea merchant, and who read books on theology, travel and missionary enterprises. This rubbed off on the young David, who became an avid reader, but he also loved scouring the countryside for animal, plant and geological specimens. Neil Livingstone had a fear of science books as undermining Christianity, but David instinctively felt that religion and science were friendly to each other. When he read Philosophy of a Future State by the science teacher and church minister Reverend Thomas Dick, he found the rationale he needed to combine the two, and apart from the Bible this book was perhaps his greatest philosophical influence.[2]
The other great influences on his life were Thomas Burke, a Blantyre evangelist; David Hogg, his Sunday School teacher; the missionary Karl Gützlaff, whose "Appeal to the Churches of Britain and America on behalf of China" persuaded Livingstone to join the London Missionary Society (LMS); and Robert Moffat, a fellow Scot and missionary in southern Africa.[2]
A further great influence, though, was not a person, but a job. From the age of ten he worked in a factory as a spinner to help support the family. The years of monotony gave him persistence, endurance, and a natural empathy with all who labour, as expressed by lines he used to hum from the egalitarian Robbie Burns song:
"When man to man, the world o'er / Shall brothers be for a' that".[2]
They were not pushing any spiritual guidance and accepted my refusal to talk about God stuff. Frankly, I don't think that Blind Freddy or anyone else would have considered their job description to be doing physical yard work for someone they don't know.thanks Julia,
I'll remember that next time I need the pool cleaned .
(mind you last time I looked the eels were about 6 feet long and growing, lol)
But If I need spritual guidance, - I'll take a raincheck thanks
Another way to look at it would be to enquire what right they have to preach to us - or to anyoneBlind Freddy could predict that they'll be on exemplary behaviour .. that's their job description for chrissake.
I'm reminded of a case I read about where an American accused of killing his father was sentenced to "go out into the world as a missionary, and spread "the word of God" for a couple of years."
Whatta loada ...
Hi Julia,They were not pushing any spiritual guidance and accepted my refusal to talk about God stuff. Frankly, I don't think that Blind Freddy or anyone else would have considered their job description to be doing physical yard work for someone they don't know.
I've made it clear in this thread that I am anti religion, but I do believe in giving credit where it's due. I haven't seen you having a go at all the other prosletyzers who roll up at the door, but perhaps I've missed it amongst some of your lengthy posts which I've skipped.
references to turning pages unread is pure co-incidenceAlbert Schweitzer, M.D., OM, (January 14, 1875 - September 4, 1965), was an Alsatian theologian, musician, philosopher, and physician.
He was born in Kaisersberg, Alsace-Lorraine (at that time part of the German Empire). After the Allies' victory in 1918, he asked for French nationality according to his Alsacian ancestries, and got it without trouble. ..... He received the 1952 Nobel Peace Prize in 1953 for his philosophy of "reverence for life" expressed in many ways but most famously in founding and sustaining the Lambaréné Hospital in Gabon, west central Africa
Finally back on threadSchweitzer considered his work as a medical missionary in Africa to be his response to Jesus' call to become "fishers of men" but also as a small recompense for the historic guilt of European colonizers: "Who can describe the injustice and cruelties that in the course of centuries they [the coloured peoples] have suffered at the hands of Europeans? . . . If a record could be compiled of all that has happened between the white and the coloured races, it would make a book containing numbers of pages which the reader would have to turn over unread because their contents would be too horrible."
Finally a (THEORETICAL / Potential) difference between man and apes - with our better brain, we SHOULD have the potential to reason that harmony with nature is better than war with it and each otherPhilosophy . Schweitzer's worldview was based on his idea of reverence for life ("Ehrfurcht vor dem Leben"), which he believed to be his greatest single contribution to humankind. His view was that Western civilization was in decay because of gradually abandoning its ethical foundations - those of affirmation of life.
It was his firm conviction that the respect for life is the highest principle. .... Friedrich Nietzsche, Russian Leo Tolstoy.... Some people in his days compared his philosophy with that of Francis of Assisi, a comparison he did not object to. In his book Philosophy of Civilisation , he wrote:
True philosophy must start from the most immediate and comprehensive fact of consciousness: 'I am life that wants to live, in the midst of life that wants to live'.
Life and love in his view are based on, and follow out of the same principle: respect for every manifestation of Life, and a personal, spiritual relationship towards the universe. Ethics, according to Schweitzer, consists in the compulsion to show toward the will-to-live of each and every being the same reverence as one does to one's own.
...
The will to live is naturally both parasitic and antagonistic towards other forms of life. Only in the thinking being has the will to live become conscious of other will to live, and desirous of solidarity with it.
here's one for pet lovers - probably a Gabon lion cub in his case... The historical Enlightenment waned and corrupted itself, Schweitzer held, because it has not been well enough grounded in thought, but compulsively followed the ethical will-to-live. Hence, he looked forward to a renewed and more profound Renaissance and Enlightenment of humanity (a view he expressed in the epilogue of his autobiography, Out of My Life and Thought). Albert Schweitzer nourished hope in a humankind that is more profoundly aware of its position in the Universe. His optimism was based in "belief in truth". "The spirit generated by [conceiving of] truth is greater than the force of circumstances." He persistently emphasized the necessity to think, rather than merely acting on basis of passing impulses or by following the most widespread opinions.
Never for a moment do we lay aside our mistrust of the ideals established by society, and of the convictions which are kept by it in circulation. We always know that society is full of folly and will deceive us in the matter of humanity. [...] humanity meaning consideration for the existence and the happiness of individual human beings.
Respect for life, resulting from contemplation on one's own conscious will to live, leads the individual to live in the service of other people and of every living creature. Schweitzer was much respected for putting his theory into practice in his own life.
PS I share his opinion concerning "a mistrust of the ideals established by society" - but as for the rest, I have little or nothing in common with him - hate cats for a start :1 onecent : )He was, for instance, a well-known cat lover, who, although left-handed, would write with his right hand rather than disturb the cat who would sleep on his left arm.
Where do I sign? Fantastic idea!On top of the "Do not call" register maybe the govt needs to nitroduce a "Do not knock" register.
Hi Julia,
Speaking about people who roll up at the door, I have nothing against religion, but I get annoyed at the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses mobs who keep on knocking at my door early in the morning on the weekends carrying on about religion. At least once a month they seem to be coming over. Despite being polite to them and telling them "No thanks" etc, they often don't seem to get it and continue preaching. Just very annoying indeed. On top of the "Do not call" register maybe the govt needs to nitroduce a "Do not knock" register.
I'm inclined to believe in a divine being and my wife tells me She looks after all of us!Do you believe in god.
2020: I have zero interest in their religious beliefs. Such beliefs had absolutely nothing to do with my post. All I was attempting to say (and now rather wish I had just shut up) was that for once I had the experience of these religious types actually doing something useful instead of just making a nuisance of themselves.FISHERS OF MEN
PS Julia
- that's twice you've made me look up dictionary.com for "proselytizing"- I guess I took you on on that point, because I see it as irrelevant since they have nothing to do but be nice to people. I accept that you were above coercion on that point (unproselytizeable ?). I have (American) friends who are Mormons. Good people, - just that I find it proves Xenophanes to a "tee" when they have to invent an intermediary to God who is American born, rather than some 2000 year old Jew. And you have to admit that "god" is "big business" in USA these days - and (if you believe Gallop polls) it's at the expense of knowledge
In Conversation with Paul Davies and Phillip Adams
Phillip: Throughout our discussions here in the desert, Paul Davies and I have marvelled over the subtlety and beauty of nature. We’ve puzzled over the paradoxes of existence. We’ve celebrated the magic of the cosmos. But whereas we may agree on the scientific facts, we differ sharply on their interpretation. Paul has written several books on the metaphysical implications of science, but does the god that physicists talk about – and they often seem to – bear the slightest resemblance to the popular notions of a god I long ago rejected? And where does science stop and faith begin?
Science versus faith, Paul, faith versus science. Is it not true that in a very profound sense science is a faith?
Paul:..........There are a number of special features when you look at it. The first thing concerns a topic we discussed earlier: that the laws of nature – the laws of physics – seem to be remarkably felicitous in the way they encourage matter and energy to become ever-more complex. These laws enable the universe to evolve from the featureless origins of the big bang to the richness and diversity we see today, including systems such as living organisms and thinking beings who can sit back and reflect on the meaning of it all.
.........There are a number of other ways as well. Imagine playing the role of a deity, with a shopping list of laws in front of you, and you can pick from this long list of possible laws. Some laws are totally different from those in our universe – the real universe. Maybe there are also laws on the list that are very similar to, but not quite the same as, our own. Suppose you could twiddle a few knobs – to use a different analogy – and change a few features of the laws we know and love; that is, pick similar but slightly different laws from the list. I’m not talking here about moving physical objects around. I’m referring to such things as changing the strength of gravity, say, or the masses of some of the subatomic particles. A mathematical study very soon shows that if you were to change the present arrangement of things by very much, then the existence of complex structures, in particular of sentient beings, would almost certainly be impossible. In other words, unless the laws of physics had a form very similar to the actual laws, there would probably be no thinking beings in the universe to reflect on the matter. So it does seem there are a number of aspects in which the particular set of laws that apply to this actual universe are really rather special.
When the complex life becomes to intense, and our frustrations on earth rise to high level, we as men of all ages speculate about the end. We're living in such a time. Good people are investing enormous energy in many ways on prophecy, and on predictions of the immediate end of the world.
Revelation Chapter 20 is central to the millennial controversy, and is perhaps the most disputed text in the Bible. This is the crucial paragraph. "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand, and he laid hold on the old dragon, that old serpent, which is the devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him that he would deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be fulfilled, after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was given to them, and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon his foreheads or in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again, until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection. On such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.' Revelation 20:1-6.
And there we have it! The definitive answer from THE authority!
I am against the mandatory requirements of religious studies at HSC level in so called religious schools - When you have a child wishing to study medicine I find the RE units irrelevant. Even with alternative schooling - they push RE once a week - in non-scripture they put a teacher in charge who hands out sheets on RE for studies, so with strong words to the principle, I put my daughter in the library, she is happy.
Why can't they just teach the kids basics on ethics, care and giving?
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