Is there a GOD?

[2020hindsight]

We need a renaissance of that era.
BTW did anyone see The Chasers tonight? Scary!

Was a song in "Hair" yes? they were the days
Chasers? - saw it wednesday m8 (repeated tonight I believe). Don't recall "scary" - but extremely wierd as usual, lol. I mean if you were walking around Melbourne and saw these idiots tying themselves up with wool lol. Or muscling in on Channel 9 at the awards night - sprinkling powder on the red carpet lol. I'm sure they spend half their time in court lol.

 

[wayneL]

Was a song in "Hair" yes? they were the days
Chasers? - saw it wednesday m8 (repeated tonight I believe). Don't recall "scary" - but extremely wierd as usual, lol. I mean if you were walking around Melbourne and saw these idiots tying themselves up with wool lol. Or muscling in on Channel 9 at the awards night - sprinkling powder on the red carpet lol. I'm sure they spend half their time in court lol.

The scarey bit was the interviewing of ordinary American Muppets on the street. That was scary!

 

[Sean K]

I got back from my wedding about an hour ago, and can not sleep. (highly strung of course ) so I thought I'd leave my bride blistfully asleep to look at a different roof top.

I would like to thank everyone for their contributions to the thread, by far one of the best I have read on ASF. This puts ASF well apart from the regular stock forum and I thank Joe once again for creating such a beast.

Now, just how can I get to sleep?

Damn it, I'll just have to push through!!!

Holey moley!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mousie]

Hey kennas,

Not to worry, it's acceptable after such a meaningful occassion, spoil yourself bad! It's just these 1-2 days after all. Don't do it every now and again; you gotta start watching that liver and kidney more often if you do.

So when're the photos coming?

 

[Sean K]

Hey kennas,

Not to worry, it's acceptable after such a meaningful occassion, spoil yourself bad! It's just these 1-2 days after all. Don't do it every now and again; you gotta start watching that liver and kidney more often if you do.

So when're the photos coming?

We spoiled ourselves a little too much and I spoiled myself more than Rach. We go to a family BBQ at Rach's parents at 12, and stay overnight to be whisked to the airport early Sunday to go to Cairns and diving with the fishes. Photos will be on my blog when they come in. Too bigga files for ASF. God, I'm married!!!!!! Rach musn't love me if she can't stay up all night and day with me. LOL Sleep is overrated. For a while......

 

[Mousie]

We spoiled ourselves a little too much and I spoiled myself more than Rach. We go to a family BBQ at Rach's parents at 12, and stay overnight to be whisked to the airport early Sunday to go to Cairns and diving with the fishes. Photos will be on my blog when they come in. Too bigga files for ASF. God, I'm married!!!!!! Rach musn't love me if she can't stay up all night and day with me. LOL Sleep is overrated. For a while......

Tight schedule there no wonder you're worried about getting some shut-eye LOL Have a good one, you might just win the sexy eyes competition hands down with that sleepy look

 

[2020hindsight]

I got back from my wedding about an hour ago, and can not sleep. (highly strung of course ) so I thought I'd leave my bride blistfully asleep to look at a different roof top

Lol - when you've been living together for the last 5 years, the only difference between a wedding night and another is your level of drunken inefficiency, lol.

We assume you didn't have any arguments - noone chimed in as Prospector suggested at the cue for "anyone have any reasons?"

I had a mate who got to the reception, and there was a hell of an argument - the wedding cake - he'd asked for chocolate sponge, and she'd asked for fruit cake, and there was this almighty bunfight - and the priest annulled the marriage there and then

 

[2020hindsight]

I just posted this on marriage thread, but might add it here as well - to get this one half back on thread

Holism (from ὅλος holos, a Greek word meaning all, entire, total) is the idea that all the properties of a given system (biological, chemical, social, economic, mental, linguistic, etc.) cannot be determined or explained by the sum of its component parts alone. Instead, the system as a whole determines in an important way how the parts behave.

The general principle of holism was concisely summarized by Aristotle in the Metaphysics: "The whole is more than the sum of its parts".
Reductionism is sometimes seen as the opposite of holism. Reductionism in science says that a complex system can be explained by reduction to its fundamental parts. Essentially, chemistry is reducible to physics, biology is reducible to chemistry and physics, psychology and sociology are reducible to biology, etc. Some other proponents of reductionism, however, think that holism is the opposite only of greedy reductionism.

On the other hand, holism and reductionism can also be regarded as complementary viewpoints, in which case they both would be needed to get a proper account of a given system.

Then there's the theoretical theological makeup of one person :-

In theological anthropology, holism is the belief that the nature of humans consists of an indivisible union of components such as body, soul and spirit.

I mean you could have the soul saying to the body ...
If I am I because you are you... etc

PS I never realised there was a difference between the soul and the spirit??

I notice this website :- Co-evolution
I like the idea on first impression anyway.
Might be worth a read ( but right nw the dog is pestering me for a walk here)

http://www.ecotao.com/holism/
Nature's Holism has evolved and continues to do so. For a guide through a condensed version of Nature's Holism, go to the synposis and follow the links in the top right corner. The book, Nature's Holism (or ecotaoism ) provides an ecological model as an alternative to the "competitive" theory of evolution. In 2007, the ideas found in Nature's Holism are now 20 years old. For a guide through a condensed version, go to the synposis and follow the links in the top right corner.

Nature's Holism - ecology and evolution:
We will examine how species associated within the same habitat or ecosystem evolve ( coevolution ) so as not to destroy the ecosystem upon which they depend for their success and survival. I will show you a holistic view of nature and ecosystems. You will see how the interdependence between long-associated (coadapted) species within an ecosystem affects the ecological structure of natural systems.

 

[2020hindsight]

Now, I find that interesting too, 2020. I've thought about this sometimes re my own actions and those of others. A really trivial example is a bloke who walks his dog on the beach and always carries a plastic bag to clean up after his dog. If the dog does its thing and there are people around, he picks it up and takes it with him, but if he thinks no one is watching he just kicks some sand over it and walks on.

Sometimes I find myself going to quite silly lengths to assure myself I'm on the right track, e.g. going back to Woolworths with a receipt when I later see I've been undercharged! This is taking honesty a bit too far really.

So, yes, I do think we are motivated to do the right thing not only by thoughtfulness towards other people, and possible karma if we believe in that, but also to reassure ourselves that we really are OK individuals.
I'd be interested to hear others' views on this.

Great examples Julia, especially the Woolies one. I mean, that sort of thing, taking the receipt back - most people would look at you cross eyed over. But little do they realise that you are selfishly doing it for yourself lol. If you can honestly say you are at peace with your conscience, then that has to be a plus surely.

(Bit like Gilchrist walking really lol - he needs to be given a serious talking to - BUT GILLY, they robbed you with that incorrect LBW last week!! )

As posted elsewhere, I think the church - and the Christian concept of a sin - makes it too easy when they say "roll up every Sunday folks, and be forgiven for your last set of sins". (should spend more time on the "Lead us not into temptation" and less on the "forgive me my trespasses")

Perhaps getting off the subject of God , but here's another example:-

The mum (or dad) who goes on a diet and has her/his small glass of grapefruit and prune juice blend for breakfast (in front of the family) - buy weakens during the day and has a heap of doughnuts or some such (out of sight). Like, that person would have more self respect if they had the doughnuts in front of the family, and the willpower of the grapefruit juice at smoko

(Of course the most self respect if they stuck to the bludy diet lol - or exercise program or whatever - staying off the booze etc - oops now Im starting to lose self respect lol)

PS I think I just cracked the code - Weird is holding up a grain of sand maybe - lol good one. (shell maybe - same result )

Judaism :-
a) An intentional sin; an action committed in deliberate defiance of God; (Strong's Concordance :H6588 (פשע pesha', peh'shah). According to Strong it comes from the root H6586); rebellion, transgression, trespass.
b) a sin of lust or uncontrollable emotion. It is a sin done knowingly, but not done to defy God; (Strong's Concordance :H5771 (avon, aw-vone). According to Strong it comes from the root H5753); meaning perversity, moral evil:--fault, iniquity, mischief.
c) an unintentional sin, crime or fault. (Strong's Concordance :H2399 (חַטָּא chate). According to Strong it comes from the root khaw-taw H2398, H2403) meaning "to miss, to err from the mark (speaking of an archer), to sin, to stumble."
Judaism holds that no human being is perfect, and all people have sinned many times. However, certain states of sin (i.e. avon or cheit) do not condemn a person to damnation; only one or two truly grievous sins lead to anything approaching the Biblical conception of hell. The Biblical and rabbinic conception of God is that of a creator who tempers justice with mercy. Based on the views of Rabbeinu Tam in the Babylonian Talmud (tractate Rosh HaShanah 17b), God is said to have thirteen attributes of mercy:

God is merciful before someone sins, even though God knows that a person is capable of sin.
God is merciful to a sinner even after the person has sinned.
God represents the power to be merciful even in areas that a human would not expect or deserve.
God is compassionate, and eases the punishment of the guilty.
God is gracious even to those who are not deserving.
God is slow to anger.
God is abundant in kindness.
God is the god of truth, thus we can count on God's promises to forgive repentant sinners.
God guarantees kindness to future generations, as the deeds of the righteous patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) have benefits to all their descendants.
God forgives intentional sins if the sinner repents.
God forgives a deliberate angering of Him if the sinner repents.
God forgives sins that are committed in error.
God wipes away the sins from those who repent.

In Western Christianity, sin is often viewed as a legal infraction or contract violation, and so salvation tends to be viewed in legal terms, similar to Jewish thinking. In Eastern Christianity, sin is more often viewed in terms of its effects on relationships, both among people and between people and God. The Bible, however, shows sin to be not following God's moral guidance, but instead humans judging for themselves what is good and evil.

I have problem with last sentence. - prefer this one

Emerging Church, Liberal Theology, and Liberation Theology
Within the emerging church movement and other progressive forms of Christianity, the definition of "sin" may or may not be central to an understanding of Christianity and its relationship to society. This non-dogmatic formulation of sin is perhaps more characteristic of the post-modern fluid views of the emerging church. Sin in this context can have multiple meanings, including but not limited to interpersonal sins (harming one's neighbours, friends, or families with negative actions), environmental sins (pollution, overconsumption), structural sins (homophobia and heterosexism, misogyny, racism, etc.), or even personal sins (actions which are harmful to oneself). As a result of this re-interpretation of the traditional concept of sin, new concepts of liberation and salvation are required.

 

[new girl]

God? Y/N..........YEP
got it going ? Y/N........and YEP
could care less where it ends up? Y/N.........YEP, but to a point
jumps tall buildings in a single bound? Y/N ........YEP a bit like nemo
needs a short run up to jump tall buildings? Y/N......
Jumps your average 2 story duplex with the help of a pogo stick? Y/N .....I have a feeling he'd live in a heavenly duplex.
Once crawled over a small fence with the help of a leg-up from his mate Bhuddha ? Y/N....Bhuddha is too busy sitting down thinking about stuff

Faster than a speeding bullet? Y/N....YEH
about as fast as you'd expect for an old codger running? Y/N....
has a sense of humour? Y/N....ALWAYS

Listens in on all earthly conversations? Y/N.....LOVES IT
simultaneously? Y/N :eek7:......AHA
needs the help of several translators rostered on to assist? Y/N....Maybe English is his second language
Listens in to 2GB and 2CH and 2UE and 2BL concurrently? Y/N......Yeh, he gets bored very quickly
And is an especially big fan of Media Watch? Y/N...LOVES IT, I'm sure ABC is his fav. channel and radio for that matter
Knows all human thoughts? Y/N.....every single one of,em
Knows all ape thoughts? Y/N....I think so. but who cares?
Never forgets a single thing? Y/N.......NEVER
Has strict policy of not bowing to request for a remark of that final examination paper - you get 51 you're in , you get 49 you're out - judge's decision is final, and no discussion will be entered into ,
And I'm sorry Mr Mcenroe, but you and I both know that that ball really was out, don't we: I dont think 51 is enough, I'd say a 100% or nothing!, etc

I ADORE GOD!!!

 

[2020hindsight]

one (well strictly two) more question(s), NG
does god speak to us through our conscience?
what other possible way is there ?

Heard a beauty on 2CH this morning - different ways to look at things :-

two kids at the window, a storm, big bolt of lightning
one kid runs and hides, the other tells the parent excitedly
"Mum ! I think God's trying to take a photo of me!!"

#26 on poetry thread

Tell me your story , my new-found friend, just How have we spent our life?
Relishing height in each new bound, friend? or Just steering clear of strife?
Relishing moments of sunshine and warm, - and the LIGHTNING flash - Natures wild language?
or Relishing praps just the END of the storm? - or maybe - a corn relish sandwich?

Being a Christian radio station , they finish off with the moral " if only we could all face the storms of life with this attitude"

 

[new girl]

one more question, NG
does god speak to us through our conscience?
what other possible way is there ?

Heard a beauty on 2CH this morning - different ways to look at things :-

two kids at the window, a storm, big bolt of lightning
one kid runs and hides, the other tells the parent excitedly
"Mum ! I think God's trying to take a photo of me"

2020

1. you can ask anything you want, you know that
2. Through our SOULS I'd say, but some don't have one and others just ignore it or sit passively thinking about stuff or drink themselves silly
3. through other people but we are too busy hurting them to listen
4. that is a beauty you'r right as usual.
5. I love lightning and thunder for that matter, what about you??

 

[yogi-in-oz]

Famous quotes, from famous people:

"Unless you assume a God, the question of life's purpose is meaningless"
..... Bertrand Russell ... atheist

"God doesn't play dice." ..... Albert Einstein

"Surely God would not have created such a being as man, to exist
for only a day ... !~! No, no, man was made for immortality.
..... Abraham Lincoln.

happy days

paul



=====

 

[2020hindsight]

Bertrand Russell live
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUaSO9WDcng&mode=related&search=
Yogi, here's another of his quotes :-

"Christians hold that their faith does good, but other faiths do harm. What I wish to maintain is that ALL faiths do harm. We may define faith as a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. When there is evidence, noone speaks of "faith". We do not speak of faith that two and two are four, or that the earthis round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substiture emotion for evidence. We are told that faith could remove mountains, but noone believed it, we are now told that the atomic bomb can remove mountains, and everyone believes it" - Bertrand Russell

Changing the subject to creationism vs science, this poster on youtube is interesting .

1. He has some rules for posting on his websites etc -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLcLflraV-8

2. He takes on the creationists on the subject of the evolution of the eye. Apparently creations have Darwin is often misquoted purely by mischievously only posting half of his full quote. In fact he points out that Kent Hovind appear to be quite mischievous in this regard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=furcepFlfZ4&mode=related&search=


3. In “Kent Hovind - Truth in Arguments” he gives further examples.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFm8uCZ6Uoc&mode=related&search= (This one recommended viewing imo - 2020)


4. Note at the end of that Ali G interviews him . When I first saw the interview here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjKMhtyI3L8&mode=related&search=
Lol - Ali G proves evolutionwith one simple question .. "Do you eat bananas?"
Incidentally I initially thought that Ali G was being extremely rude. But after watching (3) above, I think I know where he was coming from. I warn you Ali G is a bit boring for the first 5 minutes with his 9 9 9 9 9 etc . But even there I suspect/ guess / surmise that he is trying to make the point that evolution is not something that has happened in the last 10,000 years (as close to 50% of Americans apparently believe)

 

[2020hindsight]

a few more pictures

 

[2020hindsight]

4 billion years of evolution - my money's on this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMHNnhAEDN4&mode=related&search= Carl Sagan - speaks about 4 billion years of evolution

- something like a shrew became the ancestor of all the animals
apes and humans have a common ancestor...
- bone for bone, muscle for muscle, molecule for molecule, there are "almost no important differences between apes and humans"
- in the tree of evolution, humans occupy only one branch - yet we affect all branches

PS Just having a beer here, getting used to the idea that that's "granma five-fingers" down there , and also "grandpa protozoan" etc

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuJ3Tjj40P8&mode=related&search= Carl Sagan Speaks

wow - this bloke is brilliant - every word is worth pausing on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M97WgCkK6k4&NR=1 Kent Hovind vs. Carl Sagan and the speed of light
and here is an example of what happens when a genius like Sagan takes on some of the stupidity that Hovind comes up with.

I'm starting to understand Ali G's interviewing style better


PS here are some posts on a) how clever Hovind is, and b) how to get to heaven, both by a poster called calciumboy

a) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M97WgCkK6k4&NR=1 Hovind vs. Ross
Preview of debate between Dr. Kent Hovind and liar Hugh Ross. I sent it to Dr. Hovind and he said "It was hilarious, brother; I love it."

b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c9MA2cu2BI how to get to heaven

 

[2020hindsight]

Carl Edward Sagan (November 9, 1934 – December 20, 1996)

Sagan wrote frequently about religion and the relationship between religion and science, expressing his skepticism about many conventional conceptualizations of God. Sagan once stated, for instance, that "The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard, who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God,' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."[14]

Sagan is also widely regarded as a freethinker or skeptic; one of his most famous quotations as seen in Cosmos, was "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." (This was actually based on a nearly identical earlier quote by fellow CSICOP founder Marcello Truzzi, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."[15]The quote is also known, under different wording, as the principle of Laplace — attributed to Pierre-Simon Marquis de Laplace (1749-1827), a French mathematician and astronomer: "The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness."

I had heard him on TV long ago , but forgot.
I now understand the note on that post http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuJ3Tjj40P8&mode=related&search=
"Sagan kicks humanity down some important knowledge"
Beautiful words if you can make time to listen to them -
philosophic
poetic, and
prophetic.
Also this one... not bad forsight for 1989

Played major role in Mariner , Viking and other missions to other planets...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2zMa3unSN8&NR=1 Ted Turner interviews Carl Sagan (Part 1 of 5), etc
strong stand in defence of this planet , environment, global warming, arms race etc

Carl Sagan and Ted Turner discuss the issues that are vital to the survival of our species on earth. Sagan explains the benefits of our space program, the fascinating possibility of time travel, and our search for life on other worlds. Recorded in 1989

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCgt3qb-Kb0 Big Numbers: a Concept Creationists Don't Understand

 

[2020hindsight]

PS a couple more photo from this excellent youtube post by cdk007