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Is political correctness going too far?

I believe that there hasn't been a big take up for combat jobs by women though.

What I meant earlier when I said the "Combat roles" were specific, and non combat roles often are involved in combat was this.

Artillery for example is a "Combat role", because their main job is to attack the enemy, even though they are a long way from the actual fighting, often sitting inside bases.

these guys are "combat troops"


However a transport corp soldier is not considered to be in a combat role, because their job is transport, even though they often might find themselves in ambushes such as this, where they have to return fire and fight the enemy, they are not "combat troops"

So to say a woman can drive a truck in a combat zone, but couldn't work on an artillery battery because its a "combat role" seems silly.

 
So to say a woman can drive a truck in a combat zone, but couldn't work on an artillery battery because its a "combat role" seems silly.

It depends on the definition of "combat" doesn't it ?

In areas where physical strength is important (if it still is considering the technology around now) then a strong man is always going to beat a strong woman, but I doubt if there is much opportunity for hand to hand fighting these days.
 
It depends on the definition of "combat" doesn't it ?

In the past the Army has excluded women from "Combat corps", there are 4 combat corps.

Infantry
Armour
Engineers
Artillery

So there are 19 other corps they could serve in which weren't "combat corps", however this doesn't mean they will not be involved in fighting, just that they won't be tasked with directly seeking out and closing with the enemy, to kill or capture him, or to seize ground.

Moving from a role of driving a truck in a convoy, to driving a fighting vehicle that escorts it is not a big step in my opinion.

In areas where physical strength is important (if it still is considering the technology around now) then a strong man is always going to beat a strong woman, but I doubt if there is much opportunity for hand to hand fighting these days.

That goes back to what I was saying before, I would swap an D grade man for an A grade women any day.

Saying you will exclude 100% of the women seems crazy, when other armies around the world are using women very effectively.
 
Saying you will exclude 100% of the women seems crazy

I don't think anyone ever said we should be excluding 100% of women, just that they should be fit for the role and not have the standards inappropriately lowered to suit the "equality" megaphone crusaders.
 
I don't think anyone ever said we should be excluding 100% of women, just that they should be fit for the role and not have the standards inappropriately lowered to suit the "equality" megaphone crusaders.

Obviously the rules of war need to be changed, so that women can have equity and opportunity to kill the same number of people as a male counterpart. I just makes sense that killing shouldn't be just a man sport.
 
Obviously the rules of war need to be changed, so that women can have equity and opportunity to kill the same number of people as a male counterpart. I just makes sense that killing shouldn't be just a man sport.

Interesting point. There is a psychological side to killing as well. I wonder if there have been many studies into whether its harder mentally for a woman to kill someone than a man. Given that soldiers hardly ever see the people they are killing these days, I wonder if any psychological difference matters anyway.
 

Syria is employing females as snipers


Russians employed female snipers with great affect in WW2.

 

Been tested already apparently.
 
The "unprecedented research effort" comes down to something like this:

If your enemy does it - you do it better. Women in combat won't be decided by the PC warriors. It'll be decided by who has man-flu and who hasn't
 
The "unprecedented research effort" comes down to something like this:

If your enemy does it - you do it better. Women in combat won't be decided by the PC warriors. It'll be decided by who has man-flu and who hasn't


US defense forces ...what happened in the end with gay soldiers. (boom boom)
 
Been tested already apparently.


Interesting report. Did anyone else notice the caveat that was highlighted?

Such conclusions may be disheartening to proponents of gender integration in combat, and certainly put a damper on the news that the Army’s ranger school recently graduated its first female soldiers. The tests come with at least one important caveat: As the Marine Corps Times notes, many of of the male study participants had previously served in combat units, whereas female participants, by necessity, came directly from infantry schools or from noncombat jobs.

I would have thought that trying to compare the combat effectiveness of men vs women would be more useful if both groups had roughly identical training. How reasonable was it to expect women from non combat jobs or infantry school to have the same level of skills as men who had served in combat ?
 

I think it comes down to accepting the fact that the military is not like other organisations, it's probably got the toughest (physically and mentally) job in the world. The idea of seat polishers in Canberra deciding that it should have women quotas or whatever is ridiculous as they couldn't know what it's really like on a battlefield. It should be a decision left to operational commanders and not imposed by politicians.
 
They applied the same as other male applicants there was a mix of levels throughout. The women were the best on offer and were already physically fit. Mixed groups were proven to be less effective, end of story. A lot of men were also canned. And after that the bet is a lot of the women and men will drop from injury.

Women's hips were always the problem when carrying loads. Having women on the team means other troops then have to do/carry more.

Just doing it because #WomenPower, is stupid. Putting grunts lives at risk for equality...... Dumb.
 

If you watch that TV show American/Australian Ninja women have a real problem racing up the inclined curve....apparently it's a centre of gravity thing.... should they change the geometry to accommodate this?
 
Overall I don't give a rats whether women are allowed/encouraged/required to be front line combat soldiers. Having said that for the sake for making rational decisions I would offer the following points.

1) What are the total skills and capacities wanted for a soldier? Certainly fitness and strength but how about intelligence, adapatability, capacity to support other members of the group, technical skills with weapons, endurance (which is more than just brute strength) cunning.

2) Does everyone in a platoon have to be excellent at every skill ? Common sense would say that was unrealistic. Some things probably can't be taught or developed in particular quickwittedness, social skills and perhaps very high level technical skills.

3) Is every combat unit like the Marines? Obviously not. The US Marines pride themselves on being the toughest, hardest SOB's in town. They see themselves (and I assume are trained) as an elite fighting force. Perhaps this is not the place to look for realistic comparisions with women. Clearly 95% of men would never, ever make the Marines. The chance of women achieving the physical demands would be far smaller.

I think a fighting force should be an effective and cohesive unit. The individual capacities are always required but in the end combat is a team effort. Ruling out all women as potential soldiers on princple seems silly if it means one can't put the most effective unit on the field. Give em a go.
 
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