Is Israel a racist state?

[jman2007]

how about a discussion of cultural factors and wider geopolitical plays that are influencing this whole thing? no, its easier just to jump into your camp, play your race cards and call it a night.

disarray,

It wasn't my intention for people to feel like they have to submit their own thesis on the "Illustrated History of the Arab-Israeli Conflict since 110AD" to have their say. A poll is a quick way to gauge people's perceptions and opinions without them having to launch into a montonous and rambling discourse in trying to jutsify their arguments.

Many people will just be happy to vote and leave it at that.

 

[Sean K]

how about a discussion of cultural factors and wider geopolitical plays that are influencing this whole thing?

You can start one of those threads if you like disarray.

Although, I'm sure it will be discussed here.

I think the thread title may have come out of the UN conference actually and Armadinejad's comments which resulted in the walk out. I think it was all based on the race discussion, although he was probably playing a politician wanting to get re-elected too.

Great thread.

I'm in the not sure camp.

 

[GumbyLearner]

All I can say is "Who started this -----> thread?"

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Most of us are probably aware of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's attack on Israel during the recent UN racism Conference, in which be labelled Israel as the "most cruel and racist regime".

Does he have a point?...or is this guy just a stark raving lunatic with zero credibility? Why did every Western Government condemn his remarks? Did they do that just to tow the line, even though Ahmadinejad might have gone where they are too afraid to go?

Does the current stance of the Israeli's towards the Palestinians draw comparisons with South Africas aparteid regime during the 1980's?.. or are the Israeli's merely taking steps to defend themselves from extremist elements such as Hamas and Hezbollah?

You decide....

It's a ridiculous poll that will always reflect the left and the zealous right, the irreligious, the other main proselytising religions, and the misinformed. It will not reflect the balanced views nor the informed views because most are uninformed and follow what the media throw down people's throats. Ahmadinijan is taking advantage of those elements.

 

[So_Cynical]

If anyone missed this a couple of years ago...Iranian president Ahmadinejad
answered questions of students and professors at Columbian University, NY
on sept. 24, 2007. Here he elaborates on the treatement and human rights
of women and homosexuals in Iran.

Ahmadinejad is a good politician...Milosevic was popular in his day as well, in
the same sorta way.

 

[Mr J]

IMHO, about time American acted in its own national interest and forced Israel to accept a palestinian state based on UN resolutions i.e with East Jerusalam (?) as its capital. If Israel does not play along, no aid and no weapons. I genuinely believe this will reduce the risk of terrorism in Australia and other Western countries. The oppression of palestinians is a running sore amongst islamic countries

I don't consider this an issue. I can't remember the last time some terrorists threatened me in my wanderings around Sydney. It should be about bringing stability to the region, rather than any thought on terrorism in the West.

 

[gooner]

why? you are aware that an islamic coalition headed by the saudis and pakistanis and iranians is pushing to get anti-defamation laws passed in the UN that forbid criticism of religion right?

and that these laws will mean we have to curtail our free speech (in fact they specifically said "there must be limits to free speech") with regards to race and religion. you understand that yes?

and that iran and saudi arabia relegate women to second class citizens and routinely violate human rights and execute people for being gay and forbid other people to openly practice any other religion than islam. you are aware of this of course?

and that irans political and theological leaders have repeatedly stood up and said they want to wipe israel off the face of the earth. you've seen the articles over the years and read the reports and so on hey?

All very good points. The proposed law on religion is garbage, a total contradiction of free speech. Yes Iran and Saudi are barbaric regimes. But all of these issues do not impact whether Israel is a racist state or not. A completely different issue to divert the thread.

so now we've got these "people" standing up in the UN decrying israel for being racist. so i go ahead and point out gaping cultural, religious and ideological flaws in the arab world which has repeatedly tried to destroy israel and drive the jews into the sea, and bring up some points to suggest that perhaps these charges needed to be taken in a broader context than "oh the israelis are racist and the palestinians are victims".

In relation to "gaping cultural religious flaws". The white south africans used the same arguments. "They are barbaric", "Ignorant Kaffirs" "Will ruin the country". Cultural differences do not make subjugation of a different race morally right or appropriate. IMHO, I am amazed that America, being a multicultural country, has tolerated Israeli racism for so long.

 

[gooner]

I don't consider this an issue. I can't remember the last time some terrorists threatened me in my wanderings around Sydney. It should be about bringing stability to the region, rather than any thought on terrorism in the West.

Benbrika and Lodhi are just two of the Islamic nutters jailed in Australia for terrorism related charges. They might not threaten you as walk around Sydney, usual thing is to plant bombs that kill people. So you are threatened, you just don't know it. These people are encouraged by a view that planting bombs in the West is repayment for the West's support of Israeli oppression of Palestinians. If the oppression of Palestinians is removed, there will be less Islamic terrorists and less of a threat in the West. My opinion only.

 

[darnsmall]

Most of us are probably aware of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's attack on Israel during the recent UN racism Conference, in which be labelled Israel as the "most cruel and racist regime".

Does he have a point?...or is this guy just a stark raving lunatic with zero credibility? Why did every Western Government condemn his remarks? Did they do that just to tow the line, even though Ahmadinejad might have gone where they are too afraid to go?

Does the current stance of the Israeli's towards the Palestinians draw comparisons with South Africas aparteid regime during the 1980's?.. or are the Israeli's merely taking steps to defend themselves from extremist elements such as Hamas and Hezbollah?

You decide....

Ahmadinejad has a point, they're racist, if you consider muslim/jewdaism a race...I think the term doesn't really matter so much, they don't care for anyone else other than their own. And like a lot of others Israel will trample on those in their way if they can get away with it.

The west supports Israel and no western government that isn't in bed with Israel wants to side or be seen siding with Iran, Ahmadinejad has a point, but he's one to talk...

I like to think of Israel's stance on Palestine as the South Park hunting defence "Oh My GOD It's Coming Right For Us"
Israel needs to take steps in defending itself if it wont' to piss of everyone in the region.

I just hope this helps keep oil on the rise in years to come

 

[Mr J]

Benbrika and Lodhi are just two of the Islamic nutters jailed in Australia for terrorism related charges. They might not threaten you as walk around Sydney, usual thing is to plant bombs that kill people. So you are threatened, you just don't know it. These people are encouraged by a view that planting bombs in the West is repayment for the West's support of Israeli oppression of Palestinians. If the oppression of Palestinians is removed, there will be less Islamic terrorists and less of a threat in the West. My opinion only.

You're missing my point, that being terrorism is rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things. The odds of being killed in a terrorist attack is quite remote, even if the anti-terrorism measures are significantly reduced. Most of our fears are quite unreasonable, terrorism probably being the least of the currently hyped fears.

 

[darnsmall]

You're missing my point, that being terrorism is rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things. The odds of being killed in a terrorist attack is quite remote, even if the anti-terrorism measures are significantly reduced. Most of our fears are quite unreasonable, terrorism probably being the least of the currently hyped fears.

which is less likely, shark attack without netting on our beaches or terrorist attack without anti-terrorism laws/measures.
I think they should use the anti-terrorism laws for the bikies and atm bandits

 

[Calliope]

Ohhhhh boy. This will be entertaining.

Please try to keep it friendly folks.

Not all the usual suspects have entered the fray yet. But they will. Give them time.

 

[xyzedarteerf]

 

[metric]

firstly....

there isnt a western leader that could match ahmadinejad in an iq test....

secondly, the 'wipe israel off the map' quote, was a blatent lie by western media. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mScWWtRfGQ

they purposefully mis translated him...who owns media?

jews were never in history the populous majority in israeli claimed areas. they were always the minority. so how do they claim it as THEIR home? it was others home first. what right do the jews have to rule over the majority? they are still the minority.......democracy? democracy is a lie.


are israelis racist....? well, they believe we are goyim and we, unlike them, do not go to heaven. they believe they only, are gods children. gods chosen people. i guess that would have an effect on how they view non jews?


.

 

[Mr J]

which is less likely, shark attack without netting on our beaches or terrorist attack without anti-terrorism laws/measures.
I think they should use the anti-terrorism laws for the bikies and atm bandits

I don't know as I haven't look up the statistics, and I don't care to. I am sure that both are unlikely, and extremely unlikely if the requirement is firsthand experience. The priority with the issue that is the Middle East should not be to minimise terrorism in the West, but to stabilise the region. Terrorism in the West is infrequent, and when put in perspective very insignificant.

We live in a society that hypes shark attacks, terrorism and so on, rather than cancer, heart disease and the like. I'd apply the same argument to road deaths as well. We have governments focus so much on lowering the Easter road death toll by a few people (let's pretend we don't know it's actually about revenue) rather than focusing on the real problems that we face.

 

[Taltan]

jews were never in history the populous majority in israeli claimed areas. they were always the minority. so how do they claim it as THEIR home? it was others home first. what right do the jews have to rule over the majority? they are still the minority.......democracy? democracy is a lie.


.

Well there are more jews than muslims there now. As far as before that goes I don't think its patricularly relevant but I presume that since Judiasm was invented 3,000 before Islam there should be at least another 3,000 years where this was the case.

You are correct that no minority has the right to rule a majority but Israel has no wish to be in Gaza or the West Bank. It is involved there as a misdirected form of self-defense no different to Australia's occupation of Ahfganistan.

As for democracy well there has not been a change in a leadership family in Egypt, Jordan, Syria or Saudi Arabia for over 30 years. In that time Israel has had over 6 prime ministers and none were related to each other. In Israel every person over 18 is allowed to vote and practice their religion of choice regardless of race, religion or skin-colour. In the abovementioned countries this is not the case.

People should do their own research on the persecution of Coptic-Chrisitans in Egypt, Christians in Sudan, Palestinians in Jordan, Kurds in Syria, Iran, Iraq & Turkey etc etc. This may help to clarify why Arab leaders prefer to blame Israel for their ills rather than face increased scrutiny were the Mid-East conflict ever resolved

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Yes.

All "States" of the racist kind are racist.

Grow up.

gg

 

[Beenjammin]

Theres obviously a big mis-application of the word "racist" here.

"Racism" is the belief that your race is superior to others, and treating others worse for it. On the other hand, Iraq is claiming the Israelis are racist because of acts of agression against Palestine. The reason for these acts are in direct response to a 60 year campaign of military action and terrorist acts funded by the Arab world in a declared effort destroy the Jewish state. (sounds racist to me)

Israel was created by the UN as a “last stand” for the Jews (both long term residents - who DID form the majority of the population of Jerusalem when Palestine was formed by the British in 1917 - and post WWII European refugees) with the expectation they would be wiped out by their Arab neighbours in a short timeframe (hows that for racist?).

So for Iraq to call Israel a racist state because they won’t lay down and die for them when they attacked like the world expected, to put it mildly, smacks of sour grapes.

When your neighbours have declared they are out to kill you and the rest of the world blocks efforts for anyone to provide assistance to you, of course you're going to protect yourself - hell ,we've only got a few desparate Afghans in dodgy Indonesian fishing boats turning up in Darwin and some look on it as an invasion. What would we do if one of our neighbours declared they wanted us all dead and started launching rocket attacks on Australian cities with the intention of killing off the Aussies? Watch how quickly the queues to join up would grow.

There's nothing racist about fighting for your life.

 

[mayk]

I donot argue about their "God" given right to populate Israel. I just want them to adopt a policy of live and let live. Arabia of 1965 is quite different to Arabia of today. Back then they were not used to all this comfort provided by easy oil money. I am sure if Israel wants a peace deal time is now to do it. Stretching it out further will only make Israel the sole loser.

If it is so afraid of Arabs, then even if it executes all Palestinians, its citizens won't be able to sleep easy at night. Develop on the model of good co-operation with its neighbor. Israel and Arabs both have the potential to solve this problem, as shown by the good relations of Jordan, Egypt and Israel.

Here is for hoping, one day peace will prevail in middle east and pigs will fly.........

 

[helicart]

No, Israel is not a racist state, because Judaism is not dependent on genetics....it is a religion.

Therefore, a Lebanese Muslim or Christian could convert to Judaism and be accepted in Israel.

The racism card is the major subversive apparatus used by the Western democracy guilt industry, usually comprised of existentially anxious PC Marxists who want to erode freedom of religion and thought.....and replace it with worship of something tangible that they can manipulate, like a Socialist State.

When a Marxist comes on hard times, he believes only humans can bail him out.

When a Jew comes on hard times (or any religious dude), they believe they should look deeper within for an answer before hitting on their bro for a handout.....

Marxists hate religion because religious people believe in something Marxists cannot control and manipulate. ergo, Communist China's total neanderthal destruction of Tibetan culture and Mahayana Buddhist heritage.

Nevertheless, Jews have a pretty superior view of themselves.......which is cool by me....as long as they value knowledge, education, and self employment more than your average Australian, they are kosher in my books.