Sdajii
Sdaji
- Joined
- 13 October 2009
- Posts
- 2,117
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Your claim is that all prior climate events have precedents. However, there is no precedent to this, so not only do you not understand what you are claiming is wrong, you don't even know why!
In other words, when you cannot explain the science, you call them "misrepresentations."
You said exactly this, "...we are indeed talking about events which took a long period of time to reverse, such as massive volcanic or celestial impact events..." and now you say it took "years." Which is your point?
None that are definionally "impact events" and none that have affected climate in the last few hundred million years. These are impact events which have effected climate.
There is no such thing as a "normal range" in climate.
You really clutch at straws, make up your own definitions for contrived reality, and have no grasp of climate science.
A strawman would be when I create and answer a claim of my making.Far out, when called out on your strawman you just build another strawman!
A strawman would be when I create and answer a claim of my making.
Instead, you claimed the present climatic events were unprecedented.
You sole basis was sea levels.
I explained and showed that using sea levels could not be a valid proxid, with several examples.
Most importantly, however, there is no known precedent in climate records for long term climate to warm markedly while irradiance continued to decline since the 1970s.
This very trend is not just beyond doubt based on all scientific data, it is confirmation of AGW as a theory.
This very trend is not just beyond doubt based on all scientific data, it is confirmation of AGW as a theory.
Fixing up bad spelling/grammar, and repeating what I said:
A strawman argument occur when I create and answer a claim of my own making.
Yet you claimed the present climatic events were unprecedented.
Your sole basis was sea levels.
I explained, and showed with several examples, that using sea levels could not be a valid proxy.
Most importantly, however, there is no known precedent in climate records for climate to warm markedly while irradiance continued to decline, a trend in place since the 1970s.
This very trend is not just beyond doubt based on all scientific data, it is confirmation of AGW as a theory.
(You later added volcanic and impact events but in your usual manner offered no substantiation of how they supported your ideas.)
I attached links showing your claims were false. I suggest you read them.You realise all you did there is say that there is no data to back up your claim... I mean... okay... I disagree... but okay... then why are you making it?
False, I did not say that. Again, read what I did say.You also... I mean, please think about this for a moment or two and let it sink right in... you say that climate and sea level aren't linked....
What correlated? You showed sea levels rise. I showed they were not linked to temperature except at millenial/century level time frames.In reality, the actual climate data shows that it did indeed correlate its changes with sea levels.
No climate I know makes that claim, and all you do is repeat it.We do know that the climate has changed more rapidly than it is at present, no climate scientists deny that...
False, you showed no data on global climate.We do know that the climate has changed more rapidly than it is at present
That is the claim of scientists. You have offered nothing to show it is not the case.Do you think it's even possible that humans could cause the first ever case of this....
There is no credible evidence supporting that claim....it probably isn't changing more rapidly than at any point in the last 1,000 years...
May the most violent extremists winExtinction Rebellion is on the march.
London to be closed down for 2 weeks starting next Monday.
Be aware if you are planning a business trip.
https://extinctionrebellion.org.uk/event/uk-rebellion-shut-down-london/
This is the claim you made....it becomes completely and unequivocably obvious that extreme climate change occurs naturally, without CO2 fluctuations, rapidly and frequently.
This is the claim you made.
Your defense of this is only based on sea levels changes, and you added volcanic and impact events later on. The latter two events are short-lived.
Read the thread title and see if you can get back on track.
Whereas there are literally thousands of climate scientists who do not.Yes, I made that claim, and yes, it's true, and yes, climate scientists all agree!
People out there on the ground know it from experience of being amongst nature. As the Son of a farmer who followed the weather and the causes I have learned to know it too. The majority of scientists are telling us all, I don't need that but some still will not accept. You would think that the opposers would at least err on the side of the possibility for the sake of thier offspring and help in combating increased Co2
The following know as they have been amongst it and noted the acceleration:-
"
Former fire chiefs warn Australia unprepared for escalating climate threat
Major parties must recognise ‘national firefighting assets’ are needed to fight worsening natural disasters, say fire experts
Lisa Cox
Two dozen former fire and emergency chiefs from all over Australia want the next prime minister to ensure emergency services have the resources to fight natural disasters caused by climate change. Photograph: Rob Griffith/AFP/Getty Images
More than 20 former fire and emergency chiefs from multiple states and territories say Australia is unprepared for worsening natural disasters from climate change and governments are putting lives at risk.
In a statement issued before a federal election date is announced, 23 former emergency services leaders and senior personnel have called on both major parties to recognise the need for “national firefighting assets”, including large aircraft, to deal with the scale of the threat.
The signatories include: Greg Mullins, the second-longest serving fire and rescue commissioner in New South Wales and now a councillor with the Climate Council; Neil Bibby, a former chief executive of Victoria’s Country Fire Authority; Phil Koperberg, a former NSW rural fire service commissioner and former Labor MP and NSW environment minister.
The document calls on the next prime minister to meet former emergency service leaders “who will outline, unconstrained by their former employers, how climate change risks are rapidly escalating”.
The group also wants the next government to commit to an inquiry into whether Australia’s emergency services are adequately resourced to deal with increased risks from natural disasters caused by climate change.
They said some large firefighting aircraft were prohibitively expensive for states and territories and leased from the northern hemisphere, and access to them was becoming more restricted as fire seasons started to overlap.
“I started firefighting in 1971 and the bushfire seasons were extremely predictable,” Mullins said. “They’d start in Queensland and move south progressively.
“You knew when there was a bad season coming because there was an El Nino and drought. In the 90s, I stopped being able to predict it.”
Australia’s emergency resources were still equipped for “what was happening in the 1970s to the 1990s”.
“The first thing is we need whoever is in government nationally to take climate change seriously, rather than making jokes about it in parliament with lumps of coal,” he said.
“It’s just frustrating to hear the lip service being given to ‘Oh yes, we now believe in climate change and need to do something’ when every effort to do something about it is rubbished.”
Last year, in Australia alone, the NSW fire season began in early August, a heatwave led to fires in rainforest areas of Queensland in early December, and forest in Tasmania’s world heritage area caught fire in January, Australia’s hottest month on record.
For the past week the government has been running attacks on Labor’s proposal for electric vehicle targets to reduce carbon emissions.
“You look at any of your headlines over the last six months,” Bibby said. “The hottest month. The hottest summer.
“We know the problem, and the only way to get politicians to do something about these things is put their jobs on the line.”
Bibby said an additional concern was that Australia relied so heavily on volunteers during natural disasters.
As extreme weather becomes more frequent, and fire seasons longer, that would put strain on the system and volunteers helping their communities were at risk of burnout.
There needed to be a review of the methods used to tackle large fires, cyclones and floods that was backed by research from experienced people working on the ground.
“We’re doing the same old things when things are getting worse. We need to find new ways to tackle this problem,” Bibby said.
Whereas there are literally thousands of climate scientists who do not.
Several of my links included specific statements that your claims were false, but that's fine - you can believe what you like.
You see, climate change is a real thing, but garbage like this gives the sceptics reason to doubt and ammo against the alarmists.
This is stupid nonsensical anecdotal data, based on data sets within the lifetime of living people! People presenting this sort of garbage as reason to take climate change seriously is a great example of why many people don't, and it's difficult to blame them when you look at this pathetic crap.
Firefighters are good at fighting fires. They're not climate scientists, they're not analysts, they're the guys you call for putting out fires, and maybe rescuing a kitten out of a tree.
It looks really bad when you are trying to get climate change taken seriously and you have to use firefighters' anecdotes as evidence.
The world genuinely is in trouble, human activity is a huge part of it, CO2 probably isn't a big part of it, we're missing the point, and absolute trash like this is purely counterproductive. If I wanted to actually come up with something to fuel people's desire to oppose it I'd be proud if I came up with this!
If there is any doubt at all we should for the benefit of our children and grandchildren err on the side of caution.
As a kid we never had TV or computers, we lived outside around the paddocks, we watched Dad measure the rain and it was a consistent 25 to 30 inches a year, starting in May off the trade winds till early August each year. That was the early 1950's. They are lucky to receive 10 inches a year now and that comes in unseasonal storms which has made it very difficult for cropping. Autumn used to be mild and calm and was the most enjoyable time to fly my model plane, so was a big weather watcher from that point also. Now Autumn is hot and cold all over the place, winds from all directions. We also loved collecting tadpoles to hatch at school in a jar. Frogs there were wiped out when the heat and dry increased from around 1967 and have never returned. The current farmer says that the land only carries half that to the acre as when Dad was there. Including our place there were nine farms to the small town of Hawkesdale, today there is only four.
Now this is only one little spot but the same story is related by growing numbers of people around the country, it is the scientists who put all the experiences, measurements and changes together to provide the facts. And for anyone to say 50% changes in just 60 years is not significant then they are in absolute dreamland. Natural changes have never happened at this rate before.
What are you talking about?Literally no climate scientists make that claim!
And here is the evidence to show climate change over the past 2000 years:No, it is not unprecedented. Climate scientists debate how long ago (a few hundred or a few thousand years ago) the most recent time it occurred was, not whether or not it has happened. With the possible exception of a very, very few, all agree it has happened many times.
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