Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

Yea, yea, attack the messenger.

Its all not true, its bad for her mental health, its a leftist plot, she's mentally incapable and is a tool. blah blah blah. We shouldn't talk about this stuff as it upsets the kids. (I think doing nothing upsets the kids more.) Kids should give up their phones if they really want to help the environment.

Let's ignore the Chinese building new northern ports and ships to travel through the arctic, the movement of major wineries (such as Brown Brothers) to Britain and Tasmania.

The world will change, action will happen. The changes as advised 10 years ago on this site are obvious now, in ten years it will be a far worse, in 20 years it will be a lot worse. As I stated many years ago it will be the Republicans that will "declare war on global warming".

Knobby22 said:

Yea, yea, attack the messenger.

Its all not true, its bad for her mental health, its a leftist plot, she's mentally incapable and is a tool. blah blah blah. We shouldn't talk about this stuff as it upsets the kids. (I think doing nothing upsets the kids more.) Kids should give up their phones if they really want to help the environment.

Click to expand...

Hopefully this surge in concern and action by our children, manifests itself in more taking on scientific and engineering studies, so they can help us overcome the issues.
Currently we have falling numbers of children following these educational pursuits.

wayneL said:

Utterly cringeworthy.

Her handlers should be indicted for child abuse, because sometime soon, she is going to blow the **** up.

Never have I been more appalled by you beta cretins.

Click to expand...

And in the meantime we have a brainwashed zealot as Prime Minister...cringeworthy indeed !

Smurf you are using units to present a % over the scale for the units, not using the units to represent a percentage for the scale of temperature range experienced on the planet.

The percentage you present is not relative as Rederrob states.

Hope this makes sense.

IFocus said:

Smurf you are using units to present a % over the scale for the units, not using the units to represent a percentage for the scale of temperature range experienced on the planet.

The percentage you present is not relative as Rederrob states.

Hope this makes sense.

Click to expand...

Your saying he isn't using a suppressed zero method?

sptrawler said:

Your saying he isn't using a suppressed zero method?

Click to expand...

Kinda, the range Smurf is using is not representative so the % change of that range is also not representative.

Knobby22 said:

Yea, yea, attack the messenger.

Its all not true, its bad for her mental health, its a leftist plot, she's mentally incapable and is a tool. blah blah blah. We shouldn't talk about this stuff as it upsets the kids. (I think doing nothing upsets the kids more.) Kids should give up their phones if they really want to help the environment.

Let's ignore the Chinese building new northern ports and ships to travel through the arctic, the movement of major wineries (such as Brown Brothers) to Britain and Tasmania.

The world will change, action will happen. The changes as advised 10 years ago on this site are obvious now, in ten years it will be a far worse, in 20 years it will be a lot worse. As I stated many years ago it will be the Republicans that will "declare war on global warming".

Click to expand...

Excuse me?

Attacking the messenger?

Messenger of what? The transmogrification of woke nihilism into an Apocalyptic cult, using a deranged child as a body shield?

Pizz off man. You scumbags are ruining a generation, via eco anxiety, who will get to 40 and realise we are all still just fine and have wasted the best years of their lives.

wayneL said:

Excuse me?

Attacking the messenger?

Messenger of what? The transmogrification of woke nihilism into an Apocalyptic cult, using a deranged child as a body shield?

Pizz off man. You scumbags are ruining a generation, via eco anxiety, who will get to 40 and realise we are all still just fine and have wasted the best years of their lives.

Click to expand...

Didn't you call her deranged, I would call that slightly attacking the messenger.

You forgot the leftist plot bit but remembered the religious argument and the anxiety argument.

We grew up with the bomb, I know it scared me. The song Screaming Jets by Johnny Warman gave me the chills.
Not facing the issues and trying to hide it under the carpet is much worse.

chiff said:

Of course not...but it is just showing what you can do with statistics...I see today the use of coal is increasing in China and India and Australia like exporting more all the time.

Click to expand...

Knobby22 said:

Yea, yea, attack the messenger.

Its all not true, its bad for her mental health, its a leftist plot, she's mentally incapable and is a tool. blah blah blah. We shouldn't talk about this stuff as it upsets the kids. (I think doing nothing upsets the kids more.) Kids should give up their phones if they really want to help the environment.

Let's ignore the Chinese building new northern ports and ships to travel through the arctic, the movement of major wineries (such as Brown Brothers) to Britain and Tasmania.

The world will change, action will happen. The changes as advised 10 years ago on this site are obvious now, in ten years it will be a far worse, in 20 years it will be a lot worse. As I stated many years ago it will be the Republicans that will "declare war on global warming".

Click to expand...

I think the left is just going about it the wrong way. Well really, has always gone the wrong way about getting the right onside. Nazi, deniers etc was used at the start. It then morphed into the left selling climate action to themselves. Greta is more of the same. Crying in the streets like a bunch of limp wrists won't achieve anything. Most here are for reducing pollution, but the previous battles have lines drawn.

sptrawler said:

Hopefully this surge in concern and action by our children, manifests itself in more taking on scientific and engineering studies, so they can help us overcome the issues.
Currently we have falling numbers of children following these educational pursuits.

Click to expand...

Maybe.. Of course given how wilfully ignorant our current political leaders and some of their followers are about the overwhelming Climate Heating issues that face us there is FA chance their hard earned education will be put in that area.

Couple of others points.

1) Great Thonberg points about where we are going with global heating come totally/directly from the IPCC. It is the thousands of highly educated (stem) scientists who are telling politicians and us just what a desperate situation we are facing. It is a 16 year girl watching her future go down the tube who is saying this is unacceptable and we will hold you to account when it all comes to grief.

2) Are you aware that the story you passed on about climate strikers trashing Hype Park is just another trumped up denialist lie? Check it out. Easy to do SP.

moXJO said:

I think the left is just going about it the wrong way. Well really, has always gone the wrong way about getting the right onside. Nazi, deniers etc was used at the start. It then morphed into the left selling climate action to themselves. Greta is more of the same. Crying in the streets like a bunch of limp wrists won't achieve anything. Most here are for reducing pollution, but the previous battles have lines drawn.

Click to expand...

Why is it always culture wars rather than issues?
Why is it wrong for the young to be upset and try to do something about it.
(Thanks for bringing in the leftist plot bit)

I think it's time for Joe to disallow climate threads on ASF. It can't be party to this sort of thing.

I feel nothing but pity for the poor exploited child. What credibility has any religion that needs to hide behind it's children! The caravan will eventually move on, and it will be devastating for the young girl.

"You've Stolen My Childhood" - 16-Year-Old Girl Throws Tearful Climate Tantrum At UN
by Tyler Durden ; Profile picture for user Tyler Durden
Mon, 09/23/2019: https://www.zerohedge.com/political...ar-old-girl-throws-tearful-climate-tantrum-un

Indeed, it is criminal from her parents /carers
Changing our models year after year to adapt to a non co2 problem will ultimately force as least some government to act and try to find the real root cause
By that time it will be too late as increased temperature by itself will increase co2 levels, and anyway co2 emissions will continue to rise due to 2/3 of mankind not giving a damn

I agree with you Logique, the climate change thread is winding up again and will end up swallowing everything else, as it started doing before Joe asked for a reduction in general posting.
The problem is , it is so easy to get caught up in an endless loop argument like this one and all it does is stuff up the forum.
It's a shame there isn't a forum dedicated to the subject, so all those that are very passionate about it could congregate there, rather than stuff up a stock forum.IMO

And imagine how long it will take to reason the Believers...

Folks, if you don't like being told by a 16 year that we are going down a really dangerous path how about reading the report from those who told her what is happening.

WMO Statement on the State of the Global Climate in 2018

Statement by the United Nations Secretary-General

The data released in this report give cause for great concern. The past four years were the warmest on record, with the global average surface temperature in 2018 approximately 1 °C above the pre-industrial baseline.

These data confirm the urgency of climate action. This was also emphasized by the recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) special report on the impacts of global warming of 1.5 °C. The IPCC found that limiting global warming to 1.5 °C will require rapid and far-reaching transitions in land, energy, industry, buildings, transport, and cities, and that global net human-caused emissions of carbon dioxide need to fall by about 45% from 2010 levels by 2030, reaching “net zero” around 2050.

To promote greater global ambition on addressing climate change, I am convening a Climate Action Summit on 23 September. The Summit aims to mobilize the necessary political will for raising ambition as we work to achieve the goals of the Paris Agreement. Specifically, I am calling on all leaders to come to New York in September with concrete, realistic plans to enhance their nationally determined contributions by 2020 and reach net zero emissions around mid-century. The Summit will also demonstrate transformative action in all the areas where it is needed.

There is no longer any time for delay. I commend this report as an indispensable contribution to global eŒfforts to avert irreversible climate disruption.

https://library.wmo.int/doc_num.php?explnum_id=5789

sptrawler said:

I agree with you Logique, the climate change thread is winding up again and will end up swallowing everything else, as it started doing before Joe asked for a reduction in general posting.
The problem is , it is so easy to get caught up in an endless loop argument like this one and all it does is stuff up the forum.
It's a shame there isn't a forum dedicated to the subject, so all those that are very passionate about it could congregate there, rather than stuff up a stock forum.IMO

Click to expand...

I just wonder how seemingly intelligent people can ignore and denigrate overwhelming evidence of a problem that is destroying everything we have.

Instead they want to attack anyone who has the courage to speak up about teh problem.

By the way SP have you checked out the truth behind the Hyde Park denialist slander yet ?

basilio said:

I just wonder how seemingly intelligent people can ignore and denigrate overwhelming evidence of a problem that is destroying everything we have.

Instead they want to attack anyone who has the courage to speak up about teh problem.

By the way SP have you checked out the truth behind the Hyde Park denialist slander yet ?

Click to expand...

Yes I have, and how much are you doing to mitigate you carbon footprint?
You and everyone else has been heard for the millionth time and I for one have done as much as possible to reduce my carbon footprint, but it does become nauseous hearing it endlessly on here.
Is there any wonder it is driving Joe up the wall.
You mentioned to VC you would love to get an electric car, but can't afford one. Go and get a job at Bunnings and buy one, maybe put solar on your roof and get a battery to charge the car as well. Just to endlessly go on and on about climate change and post up news articles about it, seems absolutely pointless, if people want a sermon they will go to church.

IFocus said:

Smurf you are using units to present a % over the scale for the units, not using the units to represent a percentage for the scale of temperature range experienced on the planet.

Click to expand...

The temperature of the earth is ultimately a temperature above absolute zero.

Remove all energy input and that's where it would eventually end up, at absolute zero. Granted it would take some time to get there but that would be the ultimate outcome.

Likewise the speed of a train is not relative to the speed which has varied between 180 and 300 km/h over the past 30 minutes. Rather, it's an absolute speed - if it increases from 200 to 300 then it's going 50% faster. That it doesn't go below 180 other than when stopping is irrelevant in that calculation. We don't say that increasing from 200 to 220 is doubling its speed because it's now 40 km/h above 180 rather than being 20 km/h above 180 which seems to be your argument.

Same with anything. 160 MW is twice as much power as 80 MW. That the machine can't stay online below 40 MW doesn't change that. There's no subtracting the 40 MW in the calculation and then arguing that 160 is actually 3 times as much as 80 because it's 3 times as far above the minimum.

We're dealing with absolute quantities. 400K is twice as hot as 200K. 100 km/h is 25% faster than 80 km/h. 500 MW is 5 times as much power as 100 MW. What constitutes a normally expected range isn't a factor in any of that.

The real issue though is science versus religion.

I have put forward a hypothesis and some choose to take the approach of flat denial rather than seeking to prove or disprove it via experiment or at least calculation. That's the exact same approach which said don't worry about lead, DDT, smoking, CFC's, CO2 or all manner of other things. Just trust us it's all safe......

That approach is also the one which leads many thinking people to distrust the entire issue. As with any form of scrutiny, if there's nothing to hide then there's no reason to be hiding it.

If the ATO asks to audit my taxes or the police want to inspect my house then as someone with nothing to hide I'll be happy to go along with it. If however I try to avoid it, well then any decent Police Officer will then be immediately suspicious since the act of seeking to avoid scrutiny is of itself a huge red flag that something's up. Same in any situation. Avoiding scrutiny is always a red flag.

Those with a scientific interest in the issue would of course already be aware that real climate scientists and the IPCC have themselves raised concerns about the issue of heat input, specifically that brought about by changes in albedo caused by black carbon (soot) deposition and the loss of ice cover. No doubt a Google search will bring up relevant reports.

Regardless of whether that turns out to be an issue or not, the discussion has demonstrated rather well the problem of religion versus science on this topic and why many are wary.

sptrawler said:

I agree with you Logique, the climate change thread is winding up again and will end up swallowing everything else, as it started doing before Joe asked for a reduction in general posting.

Click to expand...

Noted and I intend to leave the issue alone for that reason.