Interactive Brokers and Options trading in Australia

[sails]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Hi TH,

Yeah i trade them, use AP, it's actually is the code for XJO options funnily enough.

Many thanks Cutz - didn't know they were available...

I tried again yesterday entering XJO into TWS and came up with nothing - so much appreciated.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Hi TH,

Yeah i trade them, use AP, it's actually is the code for XJO options funnily enough.

Thanks that did it.

 

[yarmun]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

I don't think you can trade XJO options with IB, but you can get SPI options. Just type SPI into the "Underlying" column of TWS, hit enter and you can choose futures options, etc, etc.

I have occasionally looked at the option chains in Option Trader window, but there is rarely any quotes. Looks like you would have to do a quote request. The lack of quotes seem strange as there seems to be a fair bit of decent volume at times. Anyway, I usually check here in the morning to see what's been going on: http://www.asx.com.au/sfe/daily_monthly_reports.htm

Hi all,

is it possible to do a quote request in WebTrader for stock options? because for me there is no access to TradeStation at work. is there any other way around this that's webpage based?

cheers,
yarmun

 

[cutz]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Hi yarmun,

I've never used webtrader but i must say i've never really requested a quote.

What i normally do if no spreads are showing is check the price on a modeling tool or Iress's valuer then i just enter the order at above/below price (depending if i'm buying or selling) as appropriate and adjust as required.

Normally after an order is entered when no spreads are showing, spreads automatically appear.

 

[rossw]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Hi TH,

Yeah i trade them, use AP, it's actually is the code for XJO options funnily enough.

better double check that..
there should be both XJO and AP options
xjo are the index options on the asx, and are quoted by a number of mm's
ap are the index options on the sfe, and 90% of volume is crossed up through the broker market

xjos have a $10 multiplier, ap's are $25, but apart from that they're essentially the same (some differences due to margins etc)

not sure the codes IB would use for either, but you should be able to see both

 

[cutz]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

better double check that..
there should be both XJO and AP options
xjo are the index options on the asx, and are quoted by a number of mm's
ap are the index options on the sfe, and 90% of volume is crossed up through the broker market

xjos have a $10 multiplier, ap's are $25, but apart from that they're essentially the same (some differences due to margins etc)

not sure the codes IB would use for either, but you should be able to see both

G'Day Rossw,

I'm aware of the differences between the two series but the IB codes for aussie index options are SPI for the SPI options, and AP for the XJO options.

And yep you can see both, although no spreads are showing on the SPI series.

 

[rossw]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

ok. just wanted to double check. as i said, i didn't know the exact codes IB used for their option stuff

there's no quoting requirements for AP's, so no one shows continuous quotes. But there's usually someone who responds to quote requests there

plenty of depth in xjo's tho

 

[yarmun]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Hi yarmun,

I've never used webtrader but i must say i've never really requested a quote.

What i normally do if no spreads are showing is check the price on a modeling tool or Iress's valuer then i just enter the order at above/below price (depending if i'm buying or selling) as appropriate and adjust as required.

Normally after an order is entered when no spreads are showing, spreads automatically appear.

thanks cutz, will give that a try

 

[Toothyfish]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Hi, I'm a long time trader but newbie to the forum.
I've been using Etrade and am interested in IB Brokers.
From what I have gatherered, IB charges a flat fee of $3 per contract. So is only cheaper if you are doing a small number of contracts.
Etrade charges between $40 and $50. I did a 90 WDC trade and was only charged $47 brokerage + 91.80 ach fee.
The only advantage I can see of IB brokers would be if I was trading in small numbers of contracts.
But considering the monthly subscription fee for data of close to $45. This would negate the price advantange.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
What advantages do you find in IB brokers besides

IB Brokers
Excellent forr USA markets
Flat fee $3 per contract ($1.88 + $1.22ach)
Data subscription $45


ETrade
Free monthly, although data is delayed if you are not on power trade (read this in the fine print, haven't verified yet)
Etrade doesn't quote for indexes
minimum fee $40 per trade. + ach

Options Xpress
Doesn't do OZ markets

Comsec
Doesn't do spreads online


There has surely goto be better options broker for the OZ markets?

 

[Menage]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

I was just about to open an account with IB so that I could trade options in Oz online, this thread has made me rethink my actions. its just so hard to find a company in Oz with online options, my main area of interest is trading options in the US however I am keen on doing covered calls, buy/writes etc on underlying stock that I have in my SMSF in Oz. Can anybody suggest a decent broker.

 

[Grinder]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

I was just about to open an account with IB so that I could trade options in Oz online, this thread has made me rethink my actions. its just so hard to find a company in Oz with online options, my main area of interest is trading options in the US however I am keen on doing covered calls, buy/writes etc on underlying stock that I have in my SMSF in Oz. Can anybody suggest a decent broker.

There is'nt one, been down this road many a time before. There is already a couple of threads on ops brokers, worth a look. Once OX closed Oz trading I knew I would end up trading the US. Traderdealer are'nt too bad, but you can't do credit spreads. All the rest are pretty much the same.

Toothyfish, IB would be my pick or if you want to avoid data fees I know a guy who likes Westpac. Aparently, multiple legs all online with a flat fee. So you would have to put on spreads in size to make it worthwhile. Hope it helps.

 

[sails]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

I was just about to open an account with IB so that I could trade options in Oz online, this thread has made me rethink my actions. its just so hard to find a company in Oz with online options, my main area of interest is trading options in the US however I am keen on doing covered calls, buy/writes etc on underlying stock that I have in my SMSF in Oz. Can anybody suggest a decent broker.

Menage, if it's primarily covered calls, Trader Dealer could be worth looking into to see if they might meet your needs. I believe it's only credit spreads they don't like (I don't know why as they are just as well hedged as debit spreads!). You can trade options online through WebIress, but if you want to roll and enter the order as a combo, the order needs to be phoned or emailed. I set up order templates for email and found it was the best way. I felt it reduced the risk of error as opposed to phone combo orders. Once they have the order in the Iress system and a code has been generated, you are then able to completely control it from there for the day. You can increase, decrease price and/or size - it can be deleted and then re-order online again later.

However, Iress is not the only trading platform - TD also have Bourse and Market Analyser. I have only used Iress to trade with TD, so not sure about the others or how well they work with options. Iress is quite expensive per month unless you trade enough to get it at a reduced price or for free.

One of the good things with TD is that you can scale in or out of your orders without necessarily generating fees on each and every order. They have it all explained on their site - here is their page on fees: http://www.traderdealer.com.au/What-We-Charge.aspx

I tried Morrisons at one stage and they also use Iress for options. Problem was they insisted on charging higher rates for combos as they had to be phoned in. Also, they charged separately for every order through the day which could get a bit expensive if one wants to scale in.

 

[Grinder]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

However, Iress is not the only trading platform - TD also have Bourse and Market Analyser. I have only used Iress to trade with TD, so not sure about the others or how well they work with options. Iress is quite expensive per month unless you trade enough to get it at a reduced price or for free.

I used bourse briefly before giving it the flick, if you've used Iress or simmilar you won't be impressed by it. It's a very basic set up.

 

[cutz]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

What advantages do you find in IB brokers

Hi Toothyfish,

Are you a long only WOTM mainly large lot option trader or are you a spreader adjusting daily/weekly as required, that may make a big difference between flat rate or per contract type brokerage.

For me the advantages of IB are adjustments don’t cost the earth, superior platform, superior margining, straight to the market, ability to trade any option configuration, mac compatibility, nice statements, assignment friendly, I can keep going but I think I’ll stop there.

 

[Toothyfish]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Hi Cutz,
You're right, It was a bought WOTM put as one of the legs for a spread.
Let's say I was to do a bull put spread with 50 bought and 50 sold contracts. Would that be $300 for brokerage with ach fees under IB?
With Etrade, that would be about $220 with ach fees.
I've opened an account with IB to test it out. The software and flexibility is really superb. Just don't like the data subscription. I guess you can just turn it off when you get locked up for long periods of time... Did I say locked up, I meant go away on holidays
Another problem I have found with IB broker has been it takes about 3 days for your money to clear when you do wire transfer. With Etrade it only takes 1 day. I like to leave my spare money in a decent interest earning account and top up as required. Does IB pay interest on the left over balance? Haven't worked that one out yet.
I guess there isn't any outstanding options broker for the oz market. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.
I had a look at Westpac from Grinder's suggestion.
Their fees seems to be better than Etrade but don't know what their service or platform is like.

 

[cutz]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Hello again Toothyfish,

I guess you need to work out what you need, if you’re realistic about a bull put 50 times you’re probably going to be looking at a liquid series which will be a heavily traded contract, (XJO,BHP, Big 4 ect), that’s a pretty big contract so the ASX data fee won’t be of too much concern.

Regarding transfers, in my experiences an early morning initiation with have the money show up in your account by the same day, but I guess that depends on your bank.

 

[Toothyfish]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Sorry Cutz, I Didn't answer your question.
I'm usually a spreader but don't adjust my positions much due to the slippage in the Oz market. It's also because i have been mainly using WOTM options which are very illiquid. I've only been trading options for 2 years. I have traded stocks for 10 years. Maybe I should be adjusting my position more often. I guess IB would be much better for that.
I am interested in IB for the USA markets. But have to do some ground work.

 

[sails]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Toothyfish, I have found IB is great for small quantities, but not necessarily the best for larger quantities - so it does pay to shop around. Don't forget that IB's $3 per contract includes the ACHs $1.12 per contract which the others don't usually include in their base fees. If you are doing WOTMs in large quantities, possibly a percentage based fee might work better for you.

If you are looking at the US, have a look at Think or Swim https://www.thinkorswim.com/tos/client/index.jsp. They are options brokers and provide excellent options software (free) and great service. There used to be some negotiation with their fees and I got the the minimum per leg amount waived - it's been a while since I signed up with them, so not sure if it's still the same.

 

[Menage]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Anybody out there have knowledge or experience with a broker called Kinetic Securities. My main interest is ASX stock & options.

 

[cutz]

Re: Interactive Brokers and Options trading in OZ

Hi Toothyfish,

FWIW, for huge WOTM lots if that’s your style, commsec have a flat rate of $34.95 up to 10K in leg value not including OCH fees , they do allow unrestricted options configurations (obviously staying within margin limitations) and they do offer webiress which is a useful platform, but they charge a higher brokerage rate than their normal 0.12% on assignments/exercise, I use them for positions I don’t really need to tweek.

Prefer IB because I like to play around with index options on a regular basis and with stock options I’m close to the money so my volumes aren’t huge.