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India - Male Chauvinism Reigns Supreme

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They just keep on digging

The lawyer representing three of the men charged with the gang rape and murder of a medical student aboard a moving bus in New Delhi has blamed the victims for the assault, saying he has never heard of a "respected lady" being raped in India.

Next they'll be talking about "legitimate rape"

Me thinks a blunt rusty knife and chopping block are what's needed to sort this out
 
Re: India - Male Chauvinism Reigns Supreme.

Calliope said:
Indeed it is a sick country where being accused of rape or sexual violence does not interfere with the accused pursuing a political career.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n-gang-rape-case/story-fnb64oi6-1226547317007
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Indeed Calliope,

India is a sick nation.

One wonders if these monsters had been from a higher class, whether they would have been ever arrested, and the families of the victims paid for silence.

Not a good look for India.

gg
 
Lowest of the lows....

Lawyer in India gang-rape case says victims to blame


An Indian lawyer defending three of the men charged with rape and murder in connection with a brutal attack on a 23-year-old woman on a New Delhi bus says the victims are to blame for what happened.

"Until today, I have not seen a single incident or example of rape with a respected lady," Manohar Lal Sharma told Bloomberg in an interview from India's capital. "Even an underworld don would not like to touch a girl with respect."

He said the two victims should not have been travelling on public transit late in the evening, and the man who was beaten had failed to shield his female companion from harm.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/09/india-gang-rape-case-lawyer.html
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Garpal Gumnut said:
+1

Sick bastards.

One wonders whether the money we gain from teaching them, is worth having this ethic walking about our streets.

gg
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GG,
I have enjoyed reading many of your posts on this forum and had a mental picture of you which is very different from what is emerging from these threads which portray a very immature, limited and parochial thinking. For your sake, I hope it is only limited to this one point agenda.

I had earlier written a lengthy post in reply to one of your earlier posts tarring every one coming out of a nation with the same brush based on your experience of a brief glimpse through a very narrow peephole. I deleted it before posting it when I was reminded of the adage "Never argue with an idiot for he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience". Even though I have hitherto mostly restricted my contribution in this forum to matters relating to trading and yet might regret posting this, yet feel compelled to do it.

I imagine that you are still seriously smarting from that Indian news media's branding of Australians as racists. I can understand why. I am of Indian origin. During our last visit to India in 2010, I had spent a considerable amount of time rubbishing the prevailing news hysteria to the numerous family, friends and strangers that I met. A vast majority of Indians hold Australians in very high regard but were caught up in that hysteria whipped up by the media. Most of them were very confused on the issue as there was a serious dissonance in their image of an Aussie and that being painted by news reports.

There is racism in every country of the world. I know, having spent 20 years going all over the world on Merchant ships. So it is with Australia (ask the young student working as a waiter or driving a taxi). Does that make Australia racist. Certainly not. Not more than any other nation and perhaps among the most tolerant. In the nearly decade and a half I have called Australia home, I have travelled (business related and holidays) to the various parts of Australia; perhaps more than what 90% of Australians would have visited including some places that most people don't even know exist. In all my travels, I have not felt discriminated against. In some remote parts of Queensland I have been treated differently because I came from a big city (Melbourne or Sydney are targets for that treatment) and not because I am a different colour.

This is not to say, that there would not be others who had been in this country, say as students who have had different experience. They could see it in a different light and report accordingly. There are historical reasons for Indians' sensitivity to racism. The media in India is still maturing and catch on to such news and sensationalise it and milk it for all its worth. The story then takes a life of its own. We all know how it goes. So it happened in this case.

Our government could certainly have done a better job in dealing with the matter and waited too long till the hysteria had settled in.

What has happened in Delhi recently is appalling and there is no shortage of voices being raised against it. I can't think of too many developing countries which have a democracy (albeit a creaky, rickety one) like India where still there is a scope for people's voice to be heard.

But to paint every individual from a nation of a billion people of diverse religions, cultures, languages (yes languages, not just dialects) and ethnic backgrounds with the same brush is not a very mature thing to do.

I hope that bee in your bonnet would take some rest.

Back to trading,

Cheers
 
Well written aarbee.

Certainly the rape and aftermath in Delhi is a disgrace but as you point out tarring an entire nation on the basis of one horrific event is just dumb. After all in that context how would we view the USA after seeing a string of killings in schools, malls ect.? But unfortunately it seems too easy to be simplistic and not see bigger pictures.

It is not easy to have a balanced discussion on many ASF forums. Perhaps your right to stick to discussions on share trading.

Cheers:)
 
basilio said:
It is not easy to have a balanced discussion on many ASF forums.
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Lack of balance, when you hold less than objective views, simply means that not enough people agree with you.
Perhaps your(sic) right to stick to discussions on share trading.
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On the contrary. I'd hope for more similarly articulate contributions from aarbee, whose comments are a good example of balance imo.
 
On the contrary. I'd hope for more similarly articulate contributions from aarbee, whose comments are a good example of balance imo. Julia
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Totally agree Julia. I'm just not sure how his balanced views will be treated in most forums.
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
+1

Sick bastards.

One wonders whether the money we gain from teaching them, is worth having this ethic walking about our streets.

gg
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aarbee said:
GG,
I have enjoyed reading many of your posts on this forum and had a mental picture of you which is very different from what is emerging from these threads which portray a very immature, limited and parochial thinking. For your sake, I hope it is only limited to this one point agenda.

I had earlier written a lengthy post in reply to one of your earlier posts tarring every one coming out of a nation with the same brush based on your experience of a brief glimpse through a very narrow peephole. I deleted it before posting it when I was reminded of the adage "Never argue with an idiot for he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience". Even though I have hitherto mostly restricted my contribution in this forum to matters relating to trading and yet might regret posting this, yet feel compelled to do it.

...............

But to paint every individual from a nation of a billion people of diverse religions, cultures, languages (yes languages, not just dialects) and ethnic backgrounds with the same brush is not a very mature thing to do.

I hope that bee in your bonnet would take some rest.

Back to trading,

Cheers
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Thanks aarbee, for pulling me up.

My comment was uncalled for, I regret it, and apologise.

I learnt much from your post aarbee, about myself.

Thanks.

gg
 
aarbee said:
You're welcome.

Cheers
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Thank you aarbee for a brilliant post.
After trying to express the same ideas - albeit with a little more venom - and being attacked for it, I had decided to leave certain topics (and posters) alone. Glad I returned and spotted your considered post.

It seems strange at first that we "new Aussies" from non-British origins have to point out the discrepancy between the Hoganesque another-shrimp-on-the-barbie egalitarian image and increasing British-style Upper Class attitudes. Both attitudes are part of Australian reality, as are many more attitudes from racism to saving the planet - and anything in between.

As to India, I know a great number of Indians, and my experience with them are no different to my experience with Americans, Chinese, Dutch, Germans, or Australians: With some, I "connect" and have struck a friendship; others I'm glad I don't have to see again; and every shade in between. It is easy to generalise and condemn an entire group, race, people, ... to the negative view that a single specimen of theirs may have caused me to adopt.

But it is wrong! And the more different experiences I had, the more inclined I am to argue against such generalisation. I may not always succeed in getting the message across, but it's the attitudes I object to, not the individuals who have adopted them.

Special praise goes also to you, GG, for showing character and acknowledging aarbee. You, too, made me glad I did return to this topic once more and got the opportunity to correct my opinion of you.

Cheers to you both,
Pixel.
 
dutchie said:
Another disgusting event.

The rape statistics (and that's only the reported ones) (see the video underneath the photo in the above link) are shocking.

India must address this issue quickly and strongly.
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The Indian Police are the real problem.

Yet the harrowing tale of police ineptitude in the aftermath of the December 16 gang rape, told by a 28-year-old software engineer who was dumped naked and bleeding alongside his female friend on a Delhi road, shows how far Indian policing must come.

The man gave closed-door testimony this week in a Delhi fast-track court.
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"We kept shouting at the police; 'please give us some clothes' but they were busy deciding which police station our case should be registered at," he told Zee News.

"The policemen didn't help us because my friend was bleeding profusely and they were probably worried about their clothes."

In the end it was he, badly beaten and with a fractured leg, who carried his critically injured friend to the police van.

Before she died she told him she would not have filed a police complaint had he not been there.

In India, that would not have been unusual.

Barely one third of all rape cases reported in Delhi end in a conviction. The number of cases reported in India represents a mere fraction of the rapes committed here each year.

The reasons are many and complex, but a primary concern for victims is fear of the police.
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...d-by-delhi-rapes/story-e6frg6so-1226573867540
 
Re: India - Male Chauvinism Reigns Supreme.

Garpal Gumnut said:
I was quite surprised some years ago when India accused Australia of racism.

This latest atrocity against a young woman, now dead, and her friend, affirms my belief that India has a long, long way to go to be within cooee of our advanced culture.

In India, you are judged by the lightness of your skin, your wealth, and your ability to shame, beat, work to death or rape and maim those weaker than you.

It is a chauvinistic culture and the Indian ambassador in Australia should hang his or her head in shame and apologise on behalf of his nation for this latest atrocity against women.

What a pack of tossers.

gg
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Just my two Australian cents!

I do agree that large swathes of India are filled with backward, misogynistic people. Believe me, I'm filled with the same amount of repulsion and loathing for such people as you are, but there's precise little I can do to challenge their old-fashioned values as they are deeply ingrained in this paternalistic Indian society.

Culturally, Hindu India is not very different from Muslim-Arabs, Pakistanis, Afghans or other Islamic societies that our Hindutva militants so proudly despise. There are slight differences though like alcohol consumption and free mixing of sexes is accepted. Once I went to Dubai where I stopped an Islamic Burqa-wearing Emirati lady for some mindless conversation (and some casual flirting); nothing really happened she was pleased to enjoy my company but my local friends advised me not to approach these stranger Emirati women again, they only spell trouble. People actually get jailed there for kissing. Indian/Pakistani men in Middle-East have learned to stay away from local women as the Arabs are damn insecure people.

Scratch under the surface of Dubai, all its modernity, skyscrapers, wealth and luxuries, and you have the same medieval brutality mindset you find in other Arab lands. And Dubai is supposed to be the most liberal and tolerant place in the entire Middle-East. In India, people have the freedom to flirt, hold hands and kiss in public and a lot more. I do believe that's a very important freedom we enjoy here quite comparable to Western societies and East Asian cultures.

However, India is also a land of contradictions where on the other hand you will hear news of honour killings, in this regard it's similar to the medieval brutality mindset found in Bedouin Arab cultures.

Many women in India are still forced to be housewives as their husbands and in-laws are insecure; a virtuous woman is not supposed to have other male friends etc. Trapped in an arranged marriage and in the name of upholding Indian traditions, many are unable to live fulfilling lives.

However a decent minority of women in India are empowered, mostly living in big cities. Here they have much more freedom, jobs, good careers and are treated equals to their male counterparts. Misogyny is unacceptable where I was born and raised, Bombay. Not a single friend or acquintance that I know of is chauvinistic - we have girls in our group who get treated as one of the members.

Bombay is indeed filled with people who have very progressive and liberal values. Girls can wear skimpy clothing and noone bats and eyelid. In fact the further South you go in India, women become more empowered. Northern India can be complete opposite, it's a culture dominated by aggression and machismo. In places like Delhi (where this rape occurred), women can't walk alone after 7 PM in night. Down South in Bombay, Chennai or Bangalore, it's really the complete opposite.

One more observation, the fact that many Indian men stare and leer at women is still a drawback but I heard the same machismo mindset prevails in some Western countries as well: e.g. Italy, Greece, Spain, Turkey. One of my girl-friends went for her honeymoon in these countries and she says she was constantly ogled by local men, and followed - even though her husband was with her. She said the feeling was similar to that what she would experience in North India, Delhi etc. where males take undue liberties with females.
 
MP: Seven unidentified men gangrape Swiss woman, case registered

India, Updated Mar 16, 2013 at 12:05pm IST


Bhopal: A Swiss woman was allegedly gangraped by seven men in the Datia district in Madhya Pradesh. The woman was cycling along with her husband from Orchha in MP to Agra in Uttar Pradesh.

The couple was camping near Jhadia village when seven men allegedly looted them and raped the woman. A case has been registered against seven unidentified people in Datia Civil Lines police station in Madhya Pradesh.

Reports say the woman's husband was also beaten up. The men also stole the couple's laptop and fled the scene.
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http://ibnlive.in.com/news/mp-seven-unidentified-men-gangrape-swiss-woman-case-registered/379110-3.html


==Additional Links==

BBC Link

France 24 Link
 
Shocking...Get this...

Six men arrested over gang-rape of Swiss tourist in India: woman must share blame for attack, say police

Six held after Swiss woman is assaulted – but inspector says she should never have been camping in the area

Six suspects were arrested in India for the alleged gang-rape of a Swiss tourist in the northern state of Madhya Pradesh. The 39-year-old woman – the latest victim of India’s rising tide of sexual violence – claims she was attacked by a group of men as she camped with her husband in a remote part of Datia district.

Tonight, a spokesman for Madhya Pradesh police caused anger by suggesting that the Swiss woman and her husband were partly to blame for the attack. Inspector Avnesh Kumar Budholiya said the tourists had been careless in travelling to a remote part of the country they knew little about.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/six-men-arrested-over-gangrape-of-swiss-tourist-in-india-woman-must-shareblame-for-attack-say-police-8537818.html
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The obvious first reaction to anyone holding a woman even partly to blame for being raped is outrage for most of us.

But, if a country - and a particular area - is well known for its disrespect toward women and, further, known for the authorities being less than enthusiastic about pursuing the perpetrators of rape and violence toward women, is it really sensible to camp in such an isolated place?
Neerja Ahlawat, sociologist and deputy director of the women’s studies centre at Maharshi Dayanand University in Haryana said: “This is typical of all the cases that take place in India. The police don’t want to take responsibility. Indian women are not safe, in small towns, villages or the big cities, partly because the police are not assuming responsibility for keeping women safe. They blame the dark, the clothes a woman wears, everything but their shirking of their duties.”

The Chambal valley region, where the rape took place, is renowned in India for being lawless and a refuge for some of its most infamous dacoits, or bandits. Criminals who seek refuge in this barren region of ravines and scrubland can often evade capture for years. Local reports last night suggested that five of the suspects had confessed to raping the woman, but Inspector Budholiya said they had not admitted to being involved.

Police have recovered 5,500 rupees (£67), a laptop and a mobile belonging to the couple, and confiscated a rifle from the suspects. The men operate an illicit distillery near the area where the rape occurred.

The Swiss foreign ministry, which issued a statement condemning the rape, advises Swiss tourists to avoid travelling at night in India.

Madhya Pradesh has one of the highest rates of rape in India.
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No, rape cannot ever be justified, but on just a common sense basis, why would you take such a risk?
If you know a river is full of crocs, surely you're not going to jump in on the idealistic premise that the crocs should leave you alone.
 

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