...in today's email

Whiskers said:

1. I don't say that elephants and cows get more attention than humans. How on earth did you arrive at a ridiculous assertion like that and what has that got to do with anything?

2. I purposely did not and will not elaborate on my disability, because that is not important for the discussion. I, like many disabled try to lead as normal a life as possible and go about our lives without making any issue of it.

3. As I see it there was no issue with this thread, until woodchips aired his toxic thoughts, then woodchips attitude became the issue.

4. I trust you are not being disrespectful, but I find your later posts somewhat clouded in ambiguity.

5. What is the point you are trying to make with your and worth?

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howdy whiskers
1. you didn't say it - I introduced the idea of elephants for you to comment on . (It was all I could find searching ABC for keyword "prosthetic" lol).
Because your cat was a triped (?) I assumed you might be minus a leg as well. No biggie, and I'll unreservedly take anything that caused insult back.

2. yep agreed. as normal a life as poss - good on you.

3. agreed - btw - just a guess, but I think Woodchips would say it differently if he realised others would take such offence. : 2 twocents

4. not being disrespectful - respecting you by treating you as full bodied and/or no-disability etc.

5. my attitude on using icons? - For instance, pretty common in chatrooms - suppose you're playing backgammon, and your opp rolls 6+6, then you can either say

a) "nice roll" - but he might take the attitude that you are pissed off and accusing him of winning by luck (which might be true lol, but a good sportsman wouldn't rub it in , yes? agreed?) - his reply would almost always be aggressive "you think I'm winnig by luck!",

b) alternatively "nice roll " which - assuming he has a sense of humour, he might come back with a friendly reply - and concede it was lucky.

PS Hopefully no ambiguity in the fact that I posted a video from special olympics - also a couple of young men with disabilities of a different type - will find it hard to find a partner etc - equally a disability yes ? Then again blind people achieve the greatest heights (literally) . I posted something on "Anthony Mundine" thread a couple of weeks ago. https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=188845&highlight=traveller#post188845

Whiskers, I'd like to strongly recommend to you or anyone else a book I'm reading . ... "A sense of the World - How A Blind Man (James Holman) became history's Greatest Traveller" typical review "One of the best and most life - affirming biographies I've ever read .." - by Jason Roberts

In an era when the blind were routinely warehoused in asylums, Holman could be found studying medicine in Edinburgh, fighting the slave trade in Africa (where the Holman river is named in his honour) etc ...

In "The Voyage of the Beagle", Charles Darwin cites him as an authority on the fauna of the Indian Ocean ...

James Holman was justly hailed as "one of the greatest wonders of the world he so sagaciously explored" . But astonishing as his exploits were , a further astonishment is how quickly he was forgotten. The public's embrace, driven more by novelty than genuine respect, did not endure. Critics dismissed his literacy and scientific ambitions as "something incongruous and approaching the absurd". One bitter enemy , another professional adventurer whose expedition was eclipsed by Holman's, levelled a charge that took root in public perception - "His sightlessness made genuine insight impossible"

"He might have BEEN to Zanzibar, but how could the Blind Traveller claim to KNOW Zanzibar. ? ....

The fame diminished, and curdled into ridicule, but Holman didn't slow down in the slightest. Impoverished, increasingly threadbare, and still in debilitating health, he kept to his solo travels ... friends lost track of him ,... died in London. ...

James Holman was a whirlwind of incongruities: an intrepid invalid ( at times simultaneously incapable of standing up and standing still), a poet turned warrior turned wanderer, a solitary man who remained deeply engaged with humanity. .....His adventures were either acts of machismo nor self-aggrandizing stunts - they were as he put it a means "to enter into the business of life... communion with the world and its multiplying delights".

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then in the first chapter he walks to the edge of the Vesuvius volcano .

.......
It was a triumph... Vesuvius was at its slmost violent in living memory, yet he was able to march to the very precipice, accompanied but at his own pace, under his own power. ... It was the only thing keeping him alive.

Two years earlier Holman had been a bedridden invalid, slowly retreating from life ...
Unable to cure either his blindness or the wracking pain that made an agony of motion, his physicians suggested he find some attendants and go to warmer climate - acting out of poverty, pride, and sheer self destructiveness, he did nothing of the sort. Instead he hobbled aboard a ferry bound for France quite alone , etc
..
Instead of lingering, he'd chosen to keep moving, to cling to the road like a lifeline
....
after reaching the volcano's edge... (after he was talked out of trying to go on - it was well after dark, but what did he care lol) ...... monk kept a visitor's book ... A quill was dipped in ink and placed in his hand, then gently guided to the page. Holman, a poet long before he was an officer (or blind) thought for a moment, then made what he hoped was a legible approximation of writing "


"Some difficulties meet, full many
I find them not , nor seek for any "

He handed back the book and quill , not realising he had just composed his lifetime's motto.

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Here's a few extra lines that I scribbled on the back of a Qantas boarding pass whilst reading this chapter..

"Some difficulties meet, full many
I find them not , nor seek for any "
volcano edge not seen with brain
and smelt and felt and seen by cane
… the cards I’m dealt, ignore the pain.

excitedly he cried "the heat !
I see the lava with my feet !"
let's move on higher !! UP and on !!"
........
"but sire it's hours since sun has shone".

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Needless to say it is one hell of a read. It includes for instance the prejudice he received and ignored. And he travelled more than any other rfree traveller else in the 1800's ! amazing bloke.

Whiskers said:

You just don't get it, do you Woodchips!?

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Mate I expressed my opinion about the original post and the story, which I am entitled to do - after all this is a discussion forum. If you want to discuss my opinion continue as you are doing, I love a good debate. I understand that this is a touchy matter, which is why I replied, in this politically correct world it is difficult to raise these kinds of frustrations without rocking the proverbial boat. But it needn't be the case.

You seem to be confusing two issues. There is the issue regarding acts of generosity toward the less fortunate, whether you or I would willingly have a positive impact on someones life if given the opportunity to do so - as those kids did in the story. Obviously I am not debating this. Then there is the issue of the chain email (the issue I brought up)- containing a poorly written clichéd story (fact or fiction) about an act of generosity toward a disadvantaged child. We know these stories, we've heard them all before, they are told are retold ad nauseum. Theres always a little gem tacked onto the end - the authors highly pessimistic view of values in society today etc etc...

The point is Whiskers, if you leave people alone they will gravitate toward such acts anyway, they don't need to be reminded. Its like stating the bloody obvious. If I am given the opportunity to play ball with a disabled kid I will do so regardless of whether or not I receive emails of this kind. So to that extent, I hold my original argument about preferring to read a crude joke on an email. Terribly sorry mate.

Whiskers said:

Woodchips, this story was posted on a public forum, not your personal email. You didn't have to click on it, and you didn't have to read it... but you did, and you certainly didn't have to respond to it...

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True true, although the post clearly discussed the idea of sending such content around as a chain type email hence

Trader Paul said:

If you're thinking about forwarding this message..

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and

Trader Paul said:

You now have two choices:
1. Delete
2. Forward

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Thats why I responded - because chain emails of that kind are... well, boring.

Just a different point of view Whiskers. Suck it up its good for you.


WC :batman:

link to a quick poem....
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=195865&highlight=brotherhood#post195865

....when a young boy is backward, and standing at bat, do we lolly-pop-bat-rinize
in the end my friend, HE’s the one who must judge
did we play ? – or just patronise?

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on a lighter note , sometimes it's the umpire who has the problem
or maybe he won't be allowed back ..

Another anecdote .. When I was coaching , our team of kids played some baseball during interval at Parramatta Stadium.
thousands watching , etc.

The other team's coach was umpiring at the plate - he wanted to make his team of kids look real good, get plenty of runners home etc - lol - like he was seriously one-eyed !

So I was umpiring at first (like the last youtube) - I watched a few of these kids run past - my kids were complaining but it was getting them no-where - his kids were gloating - (must 've been common experience for them) -

and after I while , I started calling his little cheats out too ( unlike the last youtube, lol) - and we at least had a TURN AT BAT ! sheesh
nice little stolen base

I hope (and believe) the pitcher will continue his role as a leader/mentor to other males.

Cheers

Dutchie

I'm going to agree with woodchips on this one.

People make their own moral choices. The tone of this email - the implication that by not forwarding it you somehow don't grasp the blindingly obvious message and are some kind of emotional scrooge - is actually a form of emotional manipulation in itself.

In my experience, the people in life that I've been able to rely on in genuinely difficult times or who are genuinely accepting of those that are disadvantaged (and find the best in everyone around them), tend to be the kind that don't make a big deal about how wonderfully moral they are, they just get in there and help or accomodate when its needed. I've also found the opposite to be true in some cases as well (i.e. hypocrisy is alive and well).

The proof is in the action and not the rhetoric.

Trader Paul said:

AND NOW A LITTLE FOOTNOTE TO THIS STORY: We all send thousands
of jokes through the e-mail without a second thought, but when it
comes to sending messages about life choices, people hesitate.
The crude, vulgar, and often obscene pass freely through cyberspace,
but public discussion about decency is too often suppressed in our
schools and workplaces.

If you're thinking about forwarding this message, chances are that
you're probably sorting out the people in your address book who aren't
the "appropriate" ones to receive this type of message. Well, the person
who sent you this believes that we all can make a difference. We all
have thousands of opportunities every single day to help realize the
"natural order of things." So many seemingly trivial interactions
between two people present us with a choice:

Do we pass along a little spark of love and humanity or do we pass up
those opportunities and leave the world a little bit colder in the process?

A wise man once said, that every society is judged by how it treats
it's least fortunate amongst them.

You now have two choices:
1. Delete
2. Forward

May your day, be a Shay Day.

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1. Delete.

Thankfully all of the people in my address book wouldn't send me that in the first place.

so would it be correct to summarise..

discuss onsending email in chatroom - YES
on-send email - NO
discuss peripherals like the topic of the email in chatroom - YES ?
......................
Question then becomes : are chatrooms then more "morally questioning and expansive" than Emails

I agree that it's inappropriate to mass email this around.

The difference between forums and email is that people get the choice to opt-in on a forum (ie. they can choose not to open the thread), whereas on email they don't get the same choice.

Email is an effective tool but increasingly falling victim to a decreased signal-to-noise ratio. Despite the very worthy content in this email (it's certainly much better than the usual genetalia-oriented spam I receive), I think it would just contribute to the noise.

Email is for targetted communication of information between interested parties, not for the mass distribution of advertising material or anecdotes.

Read this story before. Re-read it and it inspired me again.

TraderPaul's post told me quite a bit about him. My perception is that TP is a probably quite a nice person as he thought to post something that might uplift others.

Some of the other posters on this thread gave me some other impressions.

I empathise with people more than most which is why I hate this sort of post.
It is written as a deliberate tug of the heart strings which is annoying. People who send this stuff think they are being "good" but being good relies on your actions within real situations. All it does is deaden emotions.

I am also strongly heterosexual but I dislike girls in my office wearing clothing that displays their assets too strongly as it affects me in ways i don't want to be affected in the office environment.

Its the same thing.

Delete.

I'm usually accused of getting into generalities, but I'll overcompensate, and look at a few "pedant" technicalities. I mean, I think there's a bit of poetic licence here lol. (whatever that is )

My question is: Would you have made the same choice?

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[my answer:- let him have his grand slam I guess, but the story has a few technical hitches nonethless...]

….
"We're losing by six runs and the game is in the eighth inning.
I guess he can be on our team and we'll try to put him in to bat
in the ninth inning."

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[down by 6]

….
In the bottom of the eighth inning, Shay's team scored a few
runs but was still behind by three. In the top of the ninth inning, Shay
put on a glove and played in the right field.

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[down by 3]

…
In the bottom of the ninth inning, Shay's team scored again. Now, with
two outs and the bases loaded, the potential winning run was on base
and Shay was scheduled to be next at bat.

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[down by 2, only need two home to draw, and three to win]

Shay stepped up to the plate...........
Shay swung at the ball and hit a slow ground ball ………..
Instead, the pitcher threw the ball right over the first baseman's head,
out of reach of all team mates …….

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[out in the boondocks somewhere]

Everyone from the stands and both teams started yelling, "Shay, run to first! Run to first!" Never in his life had Shay ever run that far, but he made it to first base. He scampered down the baseline, wide-eyed and startled.

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[let’s assume that he’s a third as fast as the other kids who were on base - by the time he gets to first, they’ve all got home, and they’ve won the game. Shay will still have won the game even if tagged out at first, second, or third - certainly any time after 1st].

Everyone yelled, "Run to second, run to second!" Catching his breath,
Shay awkwardly ran towards second, gleaming and struggling to make
it to the base. By the time Shay rounded towards second base, the right
fielder had the ball ... the smallest guy on their team who now had his
first chance to be the hero for his team. He could have thrown the ball
to the second-baseman for the tag, but he understood the pitcher's
intentions so he, too, intentionally threw the ball high and far over the
third-baseman's head.

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[Wow - that’s a hell of a throw!! - the ball had initially gone from pitcher over first’s head - out in the boondocks somewhere - and he throws over the opposite corner of the diamond - not bad, especially for “the smallest guy on their team”!!]

Shay ran toward third base deliriously as the
runners ahead of him circled the bases toward home.

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[why aren’t the other runners home by now? he's run 2 bases - even if the others are 50% faster, they'll be home]

All were screaming, "Shay, Shay, Shay, all the Way Shay"
"Run to third! Shay, run to third!"

As Shay rounded third, the boys from both teams, and the spectators,
were on their feet screaming, "Shay, run home! Run home!"
Shay ran to home, stepped on the plate, and was cheered as the hero
who hit the grand slam and won the game for his team.

My question is: Would you have made the same choice?

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[Despite the fact that Shay could have been tagged on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd (and still won the game) - let him have his grand slam I guess

PS My technical argument is with the bloke who wrote this - embellished whatever - not with Shay - nor the kids on either team. (on neither team?) (2 cents = not important, I think; - like, 2 cents buys you some mental chewing gum etc)

its a hoax,, designed to induce a certain sentiment.. all there emails have targets and purposes..

The crude, vulgar, and often obscene pass freely through cyberspace,
but public discussion about decency is too often suppressed in our
schools and workplaces.


if you google that part alone and add + hoax,, you will see other places that part was used in other hoax emails..

shay never happened..

Trader Paul said:

Two Choices
What would you do? ...

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Delete.
Not propagate spam.

SB

Edit: actually, replying to this friggen thread continues the spam! :bonk:

Woodchips, you still don't get it.

Questionall_42 got the ball rolling in the right direction;

questionall_42 said:

But woodchips, you still had the motivation to reply to this long, tedious waste of time about life choices. Why did you respond?...

Sorry if this sounds a little aggressive, but you can't write a reply bagging a concept without explaining why you bothered to respond in the first place.

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You (unfortunately) demonstrated the underlying point of the original post,

Trader Paul said:

The crude, vulgar, and often obscene pass freely through cyberspace,
but public discussion about decency is too often suppressed.

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as endorsed bu Julia,

Julia said:

Woodchips,
Heaven forbid that you should ever have to think of anyone less fortunate than yourself! How dare those disabled, disadvantaged people even be allowed to exist!

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and, as further pointed out inter-alia by wayneL's response to your post.

wayneL said:

Your post I'd say is symptomatic of the sociological pathology inflicting today's Australia. It's good to see that there are still people who intrinsically reject this kind of thinking.

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and further by wayneL

wayneL said:

...unfortunately tainted with the ad hominem non-sequitur. It would be good if you can make your case without the same.

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but you just couldn't help yourself, could you woodchips!

Woodchips said:

Just a different point of view Whiskers. Suck it up its good for you.


WC :batman:

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Agentm said:

its a hoax,, designed to induce a certain sentiment.. all there emails have targets and purposes..

The crude, vulgar, and often obscene pass freely through cyberspace,
but public discussion about decency is too often suppressed in our
schools and workplaces.


if you google that part alone and add + hoax,, you will see other places that part was used in other hoax emails..

shay never happened..

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Thanks for clarifying Agent, i've checked it out and you are right. I didn't know that to begin with but it makes sense now...everything about it was just wrong. Prays on people who are easily emotionally seduced. Very impersonal and completely unsubstantiated. The fact that the opening sentence has been used elsewhere doesn't surprise me because chain emails are effectively built on a formula. They are built to push the right buttons, and in a sense this one is clever to the extent that it associates itself with such a sensitive topic - that way, people will refrain from questioning its validity. People's BS antennae should be up higher when it comes to emails.

I know I've already deleted it in any earlier post, but here goes again.

delete.

WC

What do folks think the motive of this hoax email?

wayneL said:

What do folks think the motive of this hoax email?

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now! - we're getting somewhere!!
wayne ! - here are 6 completely contractory answers, !!

1. We would often be ashamed of our finst actions if the world understood all the motives which produced them ... Duc de la Rochefoucauld 1613 - 1680

2. However brilliant an action it should not be considered great unless the result of a great motive... ditto

3. If the outcome is good what's the difference between motives that sound good.... and good sound motives ? Lawrence Peter

4. It is a horrible demoralising thing to be a lawyer. You look for such low motives in everyone and everything. ... Katherine T Hinkson

5. If no action is to be deemed virtuous fr which malice can imagine a sinister motive, then there never was a virtuos action... Thomas Jefferson 1743 - 1826 (typical politician ?)

6. The biggest gap in the world is the gap between the justice of the cause, and the motives of the people pushing it ... John P Grier (typical spammer ?)

PS Praps is as simple as ... ummm... someone ... ummm .....is trying to get kids to play baseball ??

Hello Agentm

Agentm said:

its a hoax,, designed to induce a certain sentiment.. all there emails have targets and purposes..

The crude, vulgar, and often obscene pass freely through cyberspace,
but public discussion about decency is too often suppressed in our
schools and workplaces.


if you google that part alone and add + hoax,, you will see other places that part was used in other hoax emails..

shay never happened..

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The following link while a critical stance taken by the author, says it is a true story.

Basilisk said:

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/chush.asp

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So what if the paragraph has been borrowed or replicated from somewhere else. If that were the criteria to define a hoax then umpteen books, songs, contracts, motor cars etc etc would be hoaxes.

But that is totally beside the point. It's a moral principle and human behaviour that the story is all about.

Sir Burr said:

Delete.
Not propagate spam.

SB

Edit: actually, replying to this friggen thread continues the spam! :bonk:

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Simillarly, Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are hoaxes or spam by your criteria and don't exist as portrayed to our children. Do you delete them also Sir Burr?

Woodchips said:

... They are built to push the right buttons, and in a sense this one is clever to the extent that it associates itself with such a sensitive topic - that way, people will refrain from questioning its validity. People's BS antennae should be up higher when it comes to emails.

I know I've already deleted it in any earlier post, but here goes again.

delete.

WC

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Isn't that what Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny do woodchips?

And why don't we all stand up and call them hoaxes too?

Simply because everyone appreciates that it's the moral and principle of the story that is important.

ok folks this has gone just about far enough. Woodchips and whiskers, if you would like to carry on your disagreement then do it privately.