Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Imminent and severe market correction

Uncle Festivus: The correction has, I suspect turned a wee corner, for the short term. I see the LSE is already up over 80 points, and it is not yet midday (plenty of time for me to be proven wrong). So long as it closes ahead, then all should be good until the next correction - do they seem to be about 4-6 months apart? I am sure we will get more.

The carry trade has resumed and, despite volatility, there is good international monetary supply and inflation is quite well controlled internationally. The miners are especially strong, and there are improved commodity prices. GDP in Australia, UK, Asia and the general Eurozone is strong.

I suspect that we are in the midst of the 3rd stage of a cycle with several years to run and, understandably, some corrections and volatility from time to time. They present buying opportunities. A lower re-ranking of financial stocks, especially non-blue chip, is perhaps in order.

However, with the superfunds, commodity demand and significant Australian resources, mining and assoicated industries must be very promising. With increased geopolitical uncertainty, Aussie mining stocks (from producers such as RIO / BHP to OXR) and even quite speculative stocks, may appeal far more than those in Asia, Africa etc. There are also some blue chip international stocks that are perhaps undervalued.

With the fuel concerns, both UGC companies (which currently generally involves quite speculative juniors such as Mee and CXY) and agricultural companies (at least those that can supply potash / nitrogen fertilizer - eg NUF and IPL) must have good growth prospects. I have left aside uranium about which much has been written by many, but tend to think it is a time for considering those with good licence prospects or production ability, if not producers such as Pdn). Associated engineering industries must also have good growth prospects. That is not to undermine petroleum companies, but value is hard to predict.

I think, perhaps, that it is a time to select the sectors more carefully, rather than to rely on general market growth and that resource and defensive will both offer good potential for growth. The former, for reasons stated, and the later becuase they have been undervalued / largely ignored for several years and will now attract conversative money. Finanaical sectors can be carved off, to a degree.

Finally, although we are all avid stock watchers, to differing degrees, there are still many who have not yet jumped into the market, whereas in the 1987 / 2000 etc busts there was very widespread public participation in the market.

All of course IMO. I disclose interests in some but not all of the stocks mentioned and many different stocks could be substituted. No recommendation is intended to be attached to them.
 
Some good points.

Your point regarding participation. Personally I think the Government is not doing enough to encourage share ownership in this country.. other than where it suits them, such as Telstra (and how good was that for the majority of mum and dad investors :rolleyes:). In fact media frenzy over any sort of drop in the market by the uneducated is seen as yet another reason to stay out.

By making it an attractive investment vehicle via appropriate incentives (a further cut in capital gain for share purchases?), not only would it possibly put the pressure off the property demand as an investment vehicle (with it's mountain of deductions), but help fund and encourage the future of Australian businesses' and ventures throughout this country. Even encourage overseas participation and investment. Way too much emphasis is put on property, and no wonder, you'd have to have rocks in your head not to buy 1, 2, 3+ properties rather than shares if you had the money available. Simply as property can slash your income tax by massive amounts, shares do not. Pollies: reduce the damn demand, stop yabbering about the supply!

I think we lack in this area. It's not wonder as well, speaking to my friends, etc, buying in shares seems to "black magic" - simply a lack of understanding of how the sharemarket works, and what it offers.
 
This doesn't help my theory that sub prime is going to be contained. :(

The Australian said:
MacBank: brace for sub-prime loss
Geoffrey Newman | August 01, 2007

THE Australian fallout from the sub-prime loan crisis in the US worsened substantially last night after Macquarie Bank revealed that retail investors faced losses of up to 25 per cent in two of Macquarie's high-yield investment funds.

Macquarie, known colloquially as the millionaires' factory because of the headline-grabbing size of its executives' pay packets, said last night that two of its funds which were marketed to smaller investors could lose a quarter of their value, or more than $300 million.

The director of Macquarie Fortress Investments, Peter Lucas, said in a statement to the market that the average price of assets in the portfolios had fallen by 4 per cent in the month to July 30 but because of loans made against the funds, which have about $1.3 billion invested, they could lose a quarter of their value.

He also warned that the funds faced possible margin calls from their lenders if they could not sell enough assets to reduce leverage.

Macquarie becomes the third similar fund to get into trouble after Basis Capital and Absolute Capital froze investors' money, but it could mark a new, dangerous phase as the Fortress funds did not in fact have any direct exposure to US sub-prime mortgages.
 
It is quite difficult to predict. I see the LSE surged upwards strongly last night, yet the US markets dropped on credit concerns, even though US consumer confidence is high. All quite contradictory. Interestinly, the $value of the actual losses in the subprime funds is small compared with the value of the increase or decrease of the markets each day. The perception of loss is greater than the actual loss, but of course perception plays an important role in markets.
 
It is quite difficult to predict. I see the LSE surged upwards strongly last night, yet the US markets dropped on credit concerns, even though US consumer confidence is high. All quite contradictory. Interestinly, the $value of the actual losses in the subprime funds is small compared with the value of the increase or decrease of the markets each day. The perception of loss is greater than the actual loss, but of course perception plays an important role in markets.

Not when you double leverage that figure.

First leverage = margin.
Hedge Funds can buy $1.00 for $0.05

Then they add to that mix derivatives, now worth some $300 Trillion to leverage that initial margin bet further.

Thus, the dollar value is immense.

Billions of dollars evaporate in hours from Bank/Hedge Fund/Insurance Co/Pension Fund Balance sheets thus forcing them to either;

*liquidate [take losses]
*liquidate alternate assets to meet margin calls.

Margin has gone from the 5% to 50% in the last 10/12 days in the US.

This is a huge mess, and the selling begets further selling, until it cannot be stopped, thus is the positive feed forward cycle reinforced, *reflexivity* as referred to by Soros.

jog on
d998
 
This doesn't help my theory that sub prime is going to be contained. :(
This seems to have been reported incorrectly.

DJ Macquarie Bank Says No Direct Exposure To Fortress Funds
01/08/2007 09:02AM AEST SYDNEY

(Dow Jones)--Macquarie Bank (MLB.AU) said Wednesday it has no direct exposure to its two high-yield investment funds that have been adversely impacted by price volatility in the U.S. credit market.

Macquarie had said earlier that two of its funds that were marketed to smaller investors could lose a quarter of their value, or more than A$300 million, according to a report on The Australian newspaper website.

A spokeswoman for Australian Bank told Dow Jones Newswires that the bank has no direct exposure to Fortress Funds.

:confused:
 
Some good points.

Your point regarding participation. Personally I think the Government is not doing enough to encourage share ownership in this country.. other than where it suits them, such as Telstra (and how good was that for the majority of mum and dad investors :rolleyes:). In fact media frenzy over any sort of drop in the market by the uneducated is seen as yet another reason to stay out.


To the contrary, I think we are overexposed via superannuation; a case of all the eggs in the one basket. As per Ducati, a self perpetuating downward spiral if it takes hold due to leverage and debt. Contagion & domino effect getting a foothold.
 
I think it is fair to say that the fact and timing of the margin call on American Home Mortgage was unexpected (certainly it was unexpected by me although I have long been wary of the impact of ARM loans; I was less surprised by the Macquarie portfolios) and the FTSE is currently down almost 130 (it rebounded slightly from its low of 150 but may drop again).

Ducati and Uncle Festivus, I do agree with the self perpetuating spiral theory, and certainly think that the current sell-off is both risk and sentiment driven, but for many non-financial sectors the fundamentals are still very good. I do not think that we are at the stage of collapse and tend more to the view that the issue is not whether there will be a recovery, but when and for how long.

Of course, a recovery will probably not be aided by any Au reserve bank rate rise. I am in NZ and you should be happy with your lesser OCR.

On a cheery note, I see Murdoch today got the Journal; so clearly some optimism displayed there. I have rather cheerfully also just bought some (hopefully) share bargains, but perhaps if I am wrong with my broader market view I can with hindsight observe the time I tried to catch and was cut by a falling knife ... I do not quite aim to buy at the bottom, because that is impossible to predict, but hopefully have bought with plenty of room for a rise - some of your resource stocks really do have very good prospects.
 
Well it wasn't as imminent but still somewhat severe, just hope it is only a correction! Keep dropping those dollars Benny!
 
There is a problem no buyers on US market volume low to start with tonight
It might be Bull Goodnight
 
There is a problem no buyers on US market volume low to start with tonight
It might be Bull Goodnight

NO Teasing but this is a problem...volume is less than half what it has been at this current time...Have the buyers dried up.
 
NO Teasing but this is a problem...volume is less than half what it has been at this current time...Have the buyers dried up.
I am off to bed this current rally (tonight at the current time a feather is holding it up.) Volume is still less than half what it would be.
I will try not to snore so as not to send a tremor through the market because thats all it needs.
(Now if it does drop...I did not snore)
 
A picture from the wayneL photo album - in his youthful, rebellious days...
 

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An update on last night inverted head and shoulder
the Bulls did not show themselves really needed to be up more than what it was (benefit of the doubt however but a failure is bad back to test the lows pretty quick)
Back in cash - just in case in turns tonight

inverted head and shoulders.gif
 
An update on last night inverted head and shoulder
the Bulls did not show themselves really needed to be up more than what it was (benefit of the doubt however but a failure is bad back to test the lows pretty quick)
Back in cash - just in case in turns tonight

View attachment 12554

well all seems ok'ish so far tonite.....only just opened i know but seems to be positive...
 
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