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wayneL said:
well said - my point exactly!
wayneL said:I think there are two concepts here that often get mixed and confused with each other, and the point has been touched on briefly.
1/ Multiculturalsim
2/ Multiracialism
The two are actually independant of each other.
I agree with those who say multiculturalism doesn't work. The evidence of this abounds.
Nothing to to say that multiracialism can't work. We all have friends of different ethnic backgrounds and races (if such a thing exists) and there is never a problem so long as all embrace the same, or similar cultural values.
Post Aboriginal Australia happens to be founded on Anglo-Saxon Christian culture; this is the predominant culture and for better or for worse, is the one that should be embraced by all... or at least respected in public.
As it is, it is the least respected. Very bad!
wayneL said:I think there are two concepts here that often get mixed and confused with each other, and the point has been touched on briefly.
1/ Multiculturalsim
2/ Multiracialism
The two are actually independant of each other.
I agree with those who say multiculturalism doesn't work. The evidence of this abounds.
Nothing to to say that multiracialism can't work. We all have friends of different ethnic backgrounds and races (if such a thing exists) and there is never a problem so long as all embrace the same, or similar cultural values.
Post Aboriginal Australia happens to be founded on Anglo-Saxon Christian culture; this is the predominant culture and for better or for worse, is the one that should be embraced by all... or at least respected in public.
As it is, it is the least respected. Very bad!
bunyip said:Hi Bullmarket
I'm not at all offended by your opinion that I'm coming across as a racist. Amused, yes, but not offended.
That university professor I mentioned was branded a racist too, simply because he stated, as I've done, that multiculturalism isn't working here, hasn't worked in other countries, and leads to increasing levels of crime/violence/disharmony.
Someone wrote into the local paper in my area, and expressed his concern about the increasing Sudanese related incidents of violence and other crimes. He was immediately branded a racist too, by three people who wrote to the paper and gave him a serve.
And no - I don't have verifiable proof of this - I don't make a point of keeping clippings from papers. Nor do I make a habit of always carrying a camera with me to snap pictures of every gang of thugs I see, so that I can supply 'verifiable proof' to people like you.
You can believe me or disbelieve me, that's up to you...its all the same to me.
You've judged me as a racist because of the views I've expressed, but you haven't expressed any views of your own.
So tell me, Bullmarket.......what are your views on multiculturalism?
Is it working here, or is it causing problems that may have been largely avoided if we'd been more selective in who we brought into our country?
Do you share my opinion that our immigrants should embrace our culture, our language, our way of life?
Do you think they're doing so?
Do you think immigrants from vastly different cultures, religions etc are compatible with mainstream Australia?
Do you think they want to be compatible?
Do you think they're making the effort to be compatible?
Do you think Australia should feel obligated to import people from countries that are torn by civil wars, dictatorships, internal strife etc?
Is it really our responsibility to act as nursemaid to the rest of the world?
I'm sure you have a TV and you watch the news each night. Do you like what you're seeing in other countries that have adopted multiculturalism, and do you think multiculturalism is working in those countries?
Perhpas you might like to give us your views on religion too. For example.......
Do you think we should embrace/tolerate the Muslim religion?
Do you think the Muslim religion tolerates other religions, particular Christianity which is the mainstream religion in Australia?
From your observation of other countries, (and here in Australia too) do you see any problems resulting from religious differences, particularly where Muslims are involved?
For the record, Bullmarket......I don't consider anyone as inferior to me on the basis of their religion, culture, race, skin colour, education, gender, or anything else.
I just don't like the way that certain elements of foreigners are slowly but surely stuffing up Australia and the Australian way of life.
Bunyip
bullmarket said:Hi wayneL
I disagree that multiculturalism and multiracialism are totally independent. I base that on my opinion that you cannot expect immigrants from other cultures to totally give their old ways of life and accept Anglo-Saxon Christian culture, as you put it, anymore than you could expect an Australian who immigrated to a non Anglo-Saxon Christian culture to totally give up our Australian way of life, whatever that is. There has to be a balance somewhere and from where I am sitting atm we and the rest of the world is having extreme difficulty finding that balance. There is no quick and easy solution otherwise it would have been implemented by now.
bullmarket said:Re your "Post Aboriginal Australia happens to be founded on Anglo-Saxon Christian culture; this is the predominant culture and for better or for worse, is the one that should be embraced by all... or at least respected in public." I could be wrong but to me you appear to be selecting a convenient point in time to suit your view.
Assuming you believe immigrants should accept the predominant culture in their new land then extending that view indefinitely, and not selecting a convenient point in time, then surely the settlers that arrived on our shores in the First Fleet should have adopted the predominant culture of their new land at that time and that being the Aboriginal culture and ways of life back then.
Happy to discuss further with you if you like but the Opening Ceremony starts soon so I'll pop in tomorrow.
Have a nice evening
bullmarket
bunyip said:Bullmarket
No, I haven't named the city near which I live. Nor will I. Can't see the point.
I'm relating true stories/incidents/information about the multicultural situation in my neck of the woods.
Your doubting of my information is noted, but is of little interest.
I don't feel under any obligation whatsoever to supply you with a means of checking the accuracy of my information.
It would be virtually impossible to do so anyway, for the reasons that Julia has correctly pointed out.
Yes Happy,Happy said:But if you go to another country and you have problems or agenda you do other things than trying to fit.
Imho.
Bobby said:Sweden & Norway must be re-thinking there immigration policy as two out of three prosecutions for rape are non-western immigrants.
This is a sicko comment by Egyptian scholar sheik yusaf al-qaradawi who claimed female rape victims Should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when raped !.
He then said : for her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must show good conduct.
Makes you think about who we let in ??.
Bob.
sbas said:Would you like to back that statement? This scholar is considered a moderate (therefore orthodox) amongst certain western circles as well, so you're quote needs to be verified.
Also, if anyone wants fair criminal statistics in NSW, Don Weatherburn, Director of the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research many times refutes over-generalisations and stereotypes.
I remember the days of the Asian Invasion... ha ha ha ridiculous now isn't it?
Julia said:Rafa:
Thank you. Your remarks re the Sudanese are what I was going to comment on. They are very different people and should be viewed accordingly. I endorse absolutely your comments here.
Re the Professor at Macquarie: He made several very appropriate comments re racism/multiculturalism, but then rather spoiled it, as I recall, with the sort of qualifying remarks which Rafa has quoted. The university vice-chancellor did, however, rather over-react imo. So much for free speech! I believe he had the right to say what he did and we can choose to agree with all or some of it.
bullmarket:
Bunyip related a couple of anecdotes supporting his views about multiculturalism. Why should he be required to provide "verifiable information "to support these anecdotes. If I make a post which describes that I fell out of a tree today are you going to ask me to provide "verifiable support" that I am in fact making a true statement? Aren't you being rather precious here? Why would anyone contributing to this thread make any comment or relate any anecdote if it were not true, for heavens' sake?
Bunyip relates the incident which occurred at his daughter's school.
What sort of "verifiable support" do you expect him to provide in this regard?
You have stated your support for multiculturalism?
Why, then, are you not happy to commit that support in the form of answers to Bunyip's questions which are indeed clear and something we could all do well to think about.
Incidentally, if you were so involved in the spreadsheet, why would you have interrupted such engrossing activity to even check in and read the thread in the first place?
Snake:
You have been living in Japan for some while now as I understand it.
You are therefore in a position to comment on this topic from the opposite point of view. Could you comment on what changes you feel you have had to make to your personality (as it appears publicly), and your general attitudes, to enable you to live in Japan in such a way that makes your presence acceptable to the Japanese people who, after all, are a very different culture from ourselves.
Just two other comments on this thread. I have a friend who spent a few years nursing in Saudi Arabia. She was obliged to adhere to their standards of dress (fully covered up) much as she disliked it. Why should the same not apply when people from other cultures wish to live here?
The prolific breeding of some immigrants has been mentioned. That is all well and good if they are going to make a contribution to our culture and our economy. It is a very different matter if they purely exist on the support of our (taxpayer funded) social welfare system. I'm not sure how many know of the actual benefits payable in this sort of situation. As an example, today I was asked to do an assessment of a family seeking payment of overdue electricity, phone and rent payments. There was the husband on a Disability Support Pension, Wife on Parenting Payment and four dependent children.
They receive almost $1000 per week. Not a hell of a lot of incentive to look for a job, is there.
Julia
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