Idle ciggie activists to tackle alcohol next?

[MrBurns]

I am not denying alcohol is a problem, there are just better ways to solve these problems rather than just creating more and more rules which dont work, but that is obviously what the masses of voters want, hence why these ideas are continually put forward

Such as ?

 

[McLovin]

So you want the right to wander the streets very very drunk, you think that's your right, you think that's ok ?

Yes. As long as I'm not doing anything to anyone then MYOFB.

Next time someone staggers down your street just think the law is on their side

OK...And then what do I do? Hide under my bed and wait for Barry O'Farrell to lock up those naughty people?

Computers and the Internet can be used to access a range of illegal things, i think we should monitor everyones internet connection.

Don't worry, that'll come eventually, with the same cheersquad reciting their same old tired arguments about how "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about".

I pay my taxes. Apart from that, the less intrusion the government has in people's lives the better.

 

[MrBurns]

Yes. As long as I'm not doing anything to anyone then MYOFB.
.

Ok it's a hard one......... guess I can walk home from the pub in peace.

 

[ColB]

Alcohol related violence is the fault of the courts and lawmakers who allow the alcohol industry unfettered access to minors and allow people to drink themselves stupid without consequences.

If you're over .05 in a car you get punished but you can walk the streets out of your brain ready to bash someone and nothing happens unless you do ....and are caught, then it's a fine and bond.

Clubs and pubs are not supposed to serve drunks but that's all they do, the consequences ? ZERO.

Burnsy, you can't blame the court system and lawmakers for alcohol related violence. The laws in most states prohibit the sale of alcohol products to persons under 18 years and also prohibits the sale of alcohol in hotels & clubs to those already under the influence of alcohol. You also can't legally walk the streets when drunk in most states.

Whilst alcohol can be a factor in street violence, it is not the only factor. Unfortunately, we have plenty of idiots on the streets who need no reason to king hit someone.

How do you stop those offenders? They are the way they are because of their upbringing, their background and probably were also subjected to violent behaviour when growing up.

I agree with you that sentencing seems to be insufficient and provides little deterrent to would be offenders or repeat offenders.

I would be reluctant as would many others to walk some of Melbourne's night club areas late at night due to the prevalence of unprovoked assaults. It's a sad world out there at times.

Anyway, I'll let you get back to the turps

 

[Smurf1976]

Burnsy, you can't blame the court system and lawmakers for alcohol related violence. The laws in most states prohibit the sale of alcohol products to persons under 18 years and also prohibits the sale of alcohol in hotels & clubs to those already under the influence of alcohol. You also can't legally walk the streets when drunk in most states.

That may well be true. But the courts ensure that whilst these things may be technically illegal, there are little or no consequences for offenders.

If there are little or no consequences of breaking the law (even if caught) then it is somewhat irrelevant whether or not the activity is technically legal or illegal.

It's like another problem that involves (mostly) a similar demographic. Hooning (as the police like to call it). I can see both sides of current anti-hooning laws, but there's an undeniable reality that the high speed car crashes on a Saturday night have pretty much disappeared since their introduction. I don't know how many cars have actually been crushed or impounded, it's probably not that many, but the reality that there is a serious punishment acts as a deterrent to committing the crime at least under circumstances where being caught is a reasonable possibility.

 

[DB008]

SBS Tonight. Richard Dawkins show, 'Sex, Death and the meaning of Life'.

Some very interesting comments from a Jewish scientist studying centenarians and their lifestyles.

His observations. Some centenarians had smoked for 30+ years, drank regularly (more than the 1 glass per day standard) and had diets that weren't the best. His conclusion - it all comes down to genes. All this nonsense about watching your weight/diet, what you eat/drink, smoke, a lot of it is BS. Genes, good genes is what you want.

 

[prawn_86]

Such as ?

Early intervention/education/socialisation of those who are likely to be the ones out there getting drunk causing trouble. It would probably take generations to change attitudes but if that's what it takes it is better than wasting resources. You need to break the cycle as opposed to re-inforcing it. Same as with drugs in general.

I'm a big believer in highly competitive team sports and the things that teaches. Yes a lot of teams go out drinking after, but few get into fights in my experience, it is more about having a good time with team-mates. Youth (especially males) need a way to channel thier energy as it has been managed, politicised, squeezed and discouraged out of them that they are no longer allowed to act as their male genetics tell them.

 

[MrBurns]

SBS Tonight. Richard Dawkins show, 'Sex, Death and the meaning of Life'.

Some very interesting comments from a Jewish scientist studying centenarians and their lifestyles.

His observations. Some centenarians had smoked for 30+ years, drank regularly (more than the 1 glass per day standard) and had diets that weren't the best. His conclusion - it all comes down to genes. All this nonsense about watching your weight/diet, what you eat/drink, smoke, a lot of it is BS. Genes, good genes is what you want.

Cheers

 

[MrBurns]

That may well be true. But the courts ensure that whilst these things may be technically illegal, there are little or no consequences for offenders.

If there are little or no consequences of breaking the law (even if caught) then it is somewhat irrelevant whether or not the activity is technically legal or illegal.

It's like another problem that involves (mostly) a similar demographic. Hooning (as the police like to call it). I can see both sides of current anti-hooning laws, but there's an undeniable reality that the high speed car crashes on a Saturday night have pretty much disappeared since their introduction. I don't know how many cars have actually been crushed or impounded, it's probably not that many, but the reality that there is a serious punishment acts as a deterrent to committing the crime at least under circumstances where being caught is a reasonable possibility.

+1

 

[MrBurns]

Early intervention/education/socialisation of those who are likely to be the ones out there getting drunk causing trouble. It would probably take generations to change attitudes but if that's what it takes it is better than wasting resources. You need to break the cycle as opposed to re-inforcing it. Same as with drugs in general.

I'm a big believer in highly competitive team sports and the things that teaches. Yes a lot of teams go out drinking after, but few get into fights in my experience, it is more about having a good time with team-mates. Youth (especially males) need a way to channel thier energy as it has been managed, politicised, squeezed and discouraged out of them that they are no longer allowed to act as their male genetics tell them.

Yeah yeah yeah, all talk , we need to do something now and save the love in sessions for some other time.

All good ideas but no ones family of someone killed by a king hit will appreciate how education might have saved their loved one.

 

[Tink]

There's an awful lot more alcoholics around than I think most people realise. A lot more.

Very true, if anyone decides to venture into our hospitals and see the disgusting conditions that nurses and doctors have to put up with, not to mention the police having to be there, then they would realise what a problem this really is.

 

[MrBurns]

Yeah yeah yeah, all talk , we need to do something now and save the love in sessions for some other time.

All good ideas but no ones family of someone killed by a king hit will appreciate how education might have saved their loved one.

Of course we're not limited to one activity to tackle this, education and a change of culture are imperative for long term change but I think some tough measures need to be taken as well, to help keep this generation safe.

 

[prawn_86]

Yeah yeah yeah, all talk , we need to do something now and save the love in sessions for some other time.

All good ideas but no ones family of someone killed by a king hit will appreciate how education might have saved their loved one.

Of course we're not limited to one activity to tackle this, education and a change of culture are imperative for long term change but I think some tough measures need to be taken as well, to help keep this generation safe.

By doing the same thing, just more of it (ie enforcing laws in a more stricter interpretation) you are still not going to change anything. What is that saying about doing the same thing over and over again? It hasnt worked for the last 50 years, why would it suddenly start working now?

I would also be interested to see what % proportion of the population are actually affected by alcohol violence. I still think it is more the media and activists portrayals more than any actual increase. Back int he days of the Romans/Greeks/Huns/Vikings/insert any civilization here there were constantly fights and brawls at taverns and that is in towns with much much lower populations than what we have now. I would think that as a % violence is actually much lower than in the past.

When i was at uni I would say i went out at least once a week on average. That is say 200 nights out in and around Adelaide notorious Hindley street. How many fights did i get in or come close to? One, and that was my fault.

Mankind is a violent species, pretending that more enforcement is going to stop violence is just kidding yourself. Same as how the religous activists before the prohibiton thought stopping alcohol would change things

 

[MrBurns]

By doing the same thing, just more of it (ie enforcing laws in a more stricter interpretation) you are still not going to change anything. What is that saying about doing the same thing over and over again? It hasnt worked for the last 50 years, why would it suddenly start working now?

I don't think it's been implemented properly in the past, they have to get tough not the softly half hearted efforts to date

I would also be interested to see what % proportion of the population are actually affected by alcohol violence. I still think it is more the media and activists portrayals more than any actual increase. Back int he days of the Romans/Greeks/Huns/Vikings/insert any civilization here there were constantly fights and brawls at taverns and that is in towns with much much lower populations than what we have now. I would think that as a % violence is actually much lower than in the past.

These days hard liquor is easily accessable and drugs have exacerbated the problem, it's big.

Mankind is a violent species, pretending that more enforcement is going to stop violence is just kidding yourself. Same as how the religous activists before the prohibiton thought stopping alcohol would change things

Fair enough but it can be controlled better than it is now, the police need to be helped by the courts not hindered.

 

[McLovin]

When i was at uni I would say i went out at least once a week on average. That is say 200 nights out in and around Adelaide notorious Hindley street. How many fights did i get in or come close to? One, and that was my fault.

Exactly right. I can't remember the last time I saw a fight. It's the people who never leave their lounge room who think the problem is huge.

I've been going to the Cross since I was about 16, I've never once seen a fight there. Does it happen, of course, but it's not like as soon as you get out of your cab someone is going to king hit you.

 

[prawn_86]

Exactly right. I can't remember the last time I saw a fight. It's the people who never leave their lounge room who think the problem is huge.

I've been going to the Cross since I was about 16, I've never once seen a fight there. Does it happen, of course, but it's not like as soon as you get out of your cab someone is going to king hit you.

I saw a few but mostly mainly scuffles and push and shove as opposed to all out fighting.

 

[prawn_86]

These days hard liquor is easily accessable and drugs have exacerbated the problem, it's big.

Hard liquor has always been accessible, for thousands of years. I would argue it is harder to access now than 500 years ago.

On a per capita basis how much bigger is it?

What drugs are you talking about? Have you used or studied the effects of 2 of the most popular 'illicit' drugs? Go to a nightclub that focuses on booking quality DJs and see how many people are smiling and ask you if you are "having a good night?", you dont think they are just happy and chatty from the music do you?

All we have now is the same problem any species has when kept in close confinement and high populations

 

[Calliope]

Exactly right. I can't remember the last time I saw a fight. It's the people who never leave their lounge room who think the problem is huge.

I've been going to the Cross since I was about 16, I've never once seen a fight there. Does it happen, of course, but it's not like as soon as you get out of your cab someone is going to king hit you.

Cheers to my fellow boozers. It's my shout.


The above photos show white and black Australians drinking on opposite sides of the street. A shared culture.

Drinking Etiquette;

http://www.convictcreations.com/culture/drinking.htm

"They are not a nation of snobs like the English or of extravagant boasters like the Americans or of reckless profligates like the French, they are simply a nation of drunkards." Marcus Clark

Some More Drink Quotes;

None of the men who in this country have left footprints behind them have been cold water men. Sir John Robertson

Beer makes you feel how you ought to feel without beer. Henry Lawson

Never have I seen such enthusiam for water - and so little of it drunk. Sir George Reid when opening the Kalgoorlie pipeline.

Des will spend about 30 hours in the water on this swim. It's not natural for a man to go that long without a beer. Barry Rodgers, trainer of long distance swimmer. Des Redford, speaking as his champion prepared to swim from Newcastle to Sydney.

The population of Sydney (circa 1806) was divided into two classes, those who sold rum and those who drank it. Dr George Macakness

Eventually every house in the (North Sydney) area will have a bottle collection crate and we'll be collecting more than Mosman. And the mayor told me, they're much bigger pisspots over here. Ron Walters

The advertising industry lives a very cyclical life. December is the month for getting pissed. John Singleton

This feat was to endear me to some of my fellow Australians more than anything else I ever achieved. Bob Hawke in reference to his beer drinking achievement.

 

[McLovin]

David Boon, 52 n.o.

 

[prawn_86]

David Boon, 52 n.o.

haha i would argue he was out, or at least retired hurt.