Idle ciggie activists to tackle alcohol next?

[Julia]

Up the penalties , even for being drunk in a public place, breathalyse them before they make trouble.

Target the venues for selling grog to drunks.

What penalties would you advocate in both instances?

 

[prawn_86]

Up the penalties , even for being drunk in a public place, breathalyse them before they make trouble.

Target the venues for selling grog to drunks.

lol the ultimate nanny state in that sentence right there. How do you define drunk? What is a public place? If i am walking home drunk (because i am not allowed to drive) should i be fined too? What about house parties? FIne the person throwing the party?

When will people realise that excessive regulation is just a waste of taxpayers money???? And it's the same people that advocate this sort of thing that then complain about government waste

 

[MrBurns]

What penalties would you advocate in both instances?

Being drunk in a public place, you'd have to pick a reading... have to be worked out.

A night in the cells and a fine , as you would be considered dangerous to yourself and the public.

A night in the cells should be enough to change behaviour.

How to determine what is considered "drunk in a public place" would need to be carefully defined.

As for venues who continue to serve drunks, very heavy fines and license suspension for a period.

They woud have to identify patrons who they believe are over and request a breath test or no more drinks, once again how to determine who's drunk to the point of being dangerous would have to be defined carefully.

 

[MrBurns]

lol the ultimate nanny state in that sentence right there. How do you define drunk? What is a public place? If i am walking home drunk (because i am not allowed to drive) should i be fined too? What about house parties? FIne the person throwing the party?

When will people realise that excessive regulation is just a waste of taxpayers money???? And it's the same people that advocate this sort of thing that then complain about government waste

If you're drunk in public ......car or otherwise you're outside the law, you'll only be tested if you're staggering or drawing attention.
You cant really expect drug effected persons to be able to move freely among us and our kids wives etc.

The trick would be to work out the definitions of drunk.

 

[prawn_86]

You cant really expect drug effected persons to be able to move freely among us and our kids wives etc.

They do all the time. Probably a lot more that you realise.

 

[MrBurns]

They do all the time. Probably a lot more that you realise.

Yep and we should address that in some way.

 

[prawn_86]

Yep and we should address that in some way.

So spending more and more money and resources policing things like this, further clogging up the courts, versus decriminalisation, education and harm reduction is your answer?

 

[McLovin]

They do all the time. Probably a lot more that you realise.

Absolutely. I've walked in to my fair share of meetings where people had the sniffles. You only notice the ones who have stopped functioning. Like alcoholics.

 

[MrBurns]

So spending more and more money and resources policing things like this, further clogging up the courts, versus decriminalisation, education and harm reduction is your answer?

Education should be happening anyway but in the meantime anything it takes to make the streets safer.

This goes hand in hand with an overhaul of the legal system, speed things up, straight in the cells overnight like in the old days, tell the lawyers to go jump.
Not easy to work all the details out but something should be done.

I think the trouble makers are easy to spot so they should be rounded up before they do anything.

 

[Surly]

I think the trouble makers are easy to spot so they should be rounded up before they do anything.

Good bye presumption of innocence...hello totalitarian nanny state.

cheers
Surly

 

[MrBurns]

Good bye presumption of innocence...hello totalitarian nanny state.

cheers
Surly

No not a nanny state a idiot free state with any luck.

If you're very drunk you're already not innocent.

 

[McLovin]

Education should be happening anyway but in the meantime anything it takes to make the streets safer.

This goes hand in hand with an overhaul of the legal system, speed things up, straight in the cells overnight like in the old days, tell the lawyers to go jump.
Not easy to work all the details out but something should be done.

I think the trouble makers are easy to spot so they should be rounded up before they do anything.

Wow.

The problem with this sort of rubbish is that sooner or later you may find yourself being rounded up for something someone thinks you might be about to do or whatever retarded "public safety initiative" is the flavour of the day.

"I saw Goody Proctor with the Devil"

 

[MrBurns]

Wow.

The problem with this sort of rubbish is that sooner or later you may find yourself being rounded up for something someone thinks you might be about to do or whatever retarded "public safety initiative" is the flavour of the day.

"I saw Goody Proctor with the Devil"

It would take a great deal of thought to avoid that and probably doubtful our leaders could muster the intellect to handle it.

added - drunk and disorderly is already an offense but it doesn't stop attacks and it doesnt stop people getting very drunk in public.

 

[McLovin]

IGood bye presumption of innocence...hello totalitarian nanny state.

cheers
Surly

It's disturbing that someone can think so little of depriving someone else of their freedom for something they might do. Nanny state is too soft a word for what that actually is.

added - drunk and disorderly is already an offense but it doesn't stop attacks and it doesnt stop people getting very drunk in public.

Drunk and disorderly. There's two parts to the offence, you need to be drunk and you need to be causing disorder. Being drunk is not an offence, nor should it be.

 

[Logique]

...It wouldn't be such an issue if public transport was available to get everyone home, but it seems that if you're coming out of a nightclub at 3am you're far more likely to be drunk and stranded without transport than if you had to leave at 1am...

Around here, a lot changed when the pub started an after-hours courtesy bus. After closing time, the drinkers went off home, rather than milling around jostling for taxis, a recipe for disaster when it's late-night. The licensed clubs have courtesy buses as well.

Simple, practical measures to manage crowds. It makes all the difference.

 

[MrBurns]

It's disturbing that someone can think so little of depriving someone else of their freedom for something they might do. Nanny state is too soft a word for what that actually is.
.

So you want the right to wander the streets very very drunk, you think that's your right, you think that's ok ?

Next time someone staggers down your street just think the law is on their side

 

[Smurf1976]

Absolutely. I've walked in to my fair share of meetings where people had the sniffles. You only notice the ones who have stopped functioning. Like alcoholics.

There's an awful lot more alcoholics around than I think most people realise. A lot more.

 

[MrBurns]

There's an awful lot more alcoholics around than I think most people realise. A lot more.

There's varying degrees.
The guy who drinks a couple of slabs a week thinks he's ok, but he isn't
It's not just drunks who are alcoholics.

 

[prawn_86]

Next time someone staggers down your street just think the law is on their side

It's indoctrinated opinions like this that have been fed by governments and media over generations that have caused the "War on Drugs" to be such a huge waste of time, lives, money and just about everything else. I'm struggling to comprehend how easily people are willing to give up their own freedoms, but now see why the ploiticians pander to it.

Computers and the Internet can be used to access a range of illegal things, i think we should monitor everyones internet connection. In fact, i think everyone should have a personal drone folowing them to detect if they do anything illegal, because those setting and enforcing the law always know best

I am not denying alcohol is a problem, there are just better ways to solve these problems rather than just creating more and more rules which dont work, but that is obviously what the masses of voters want, hence why these ideas are continually put forward

 

[Smurf1976]

There's varying degrees.
The guy who drinks a couple of slabs a week thinks he's ok, but he isn't
It's not just drunks who are alcoholics.

Agreed.

One thing I have noticed however is that those who drink as you describe are often high achievers both socially and at work. At least they are until the inevitable consequences of prolonged heavy drinking arrive - health fails, relationships fail or there's an issue with the law (eg loss of drivers' license).

They are often hard to spot for this reason. On the outside at least, they appear to be doing somewhat better than most and as a result few will even suspect there's a problem until faced with undeniable reality.