Julia
In Memoriam
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- 10 May 2005
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No, because they don't have to.Most people without money think the measure of success is having money. I don't know many people with money who measure their life by their bank balance.
This is a popular saying, but in fact without enough money imo it's not possible to be happy. If you can't pay your electricity bill, can't choose to eat good food, can't join in social activities and have no immediate prospect of improving your situation because of entrenched disadvantage, illness, age etc, I don't know how you can be 'happy'.As Rene Rivkin used to say, "money doesn't buy happiness, it just buys a better form of unhappiness".
This is a popular saying, but in fact without enough money imo it's not possible to be happy. If you can't pay your electricity bill, can't choose to eat good food, can't join in social activities and have no immediate prospect of improving your situation because of entrenched disadvantage, illness, age etc, I don't know how you can be 'happy'.
But the irony is that earning additional income will actually not lead to extra happiness, once you have already attained a “comfortable standard” where you have what you need to function and be content. The “comfortable standard” can be quite variable based on the city, state or country you live in. Here in the US, according to Dunn and Norton, the standard falls around $75,000. Researchers at Princeton examined Gallup poll data from nearly 500,000 US households and found that higher family incomes were related to better moods on a day to day basis. However, the positive effects of money had no effect on people’s happiness and moods after a level of $ 75,000.00 was attained.
The issue then arises why we work so hard after we have reached an income level that is able to make us happy. Beyond a strong work ethic engrained by family values, or the desire to excel and compete with others, it appears that our ideas about money and happiness have gone awry. Dunn and Norton explain that based on their research with a national sample of Americans, the thought that life would be happier with double their salary (from 25K to 55K) did not translate into any measurable happiness. (Twice the money did not lead to twice the happiness). But according to Dunn and Norton’s data, people who earned 55K were only 9 percent more content than those making $25,000.00. 9 percent happier may be difficult to quantify, and better than 0 percent, but not the 100 percent you may be expecting from the extra income.
Julia said:I'm not sure about what constitutes success or failure but for me a large part of feeling OK is self acceptance, rather than an endless quest for achievement and improvement. Having been very success driven once, I had to learn that just being OK is more conducive to contentment than competitive striving.
When we're finding our way in the world, I think it matters to most of us to be liked. Growing up can mean replacing approval seeking behaviour with the capacity to discern who to avoid. I don't fight negative stressors, whether people or situations any more, and instead just walk away.
This is a popular saying, but in fact without enough money imo it's not possible to be happy.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement absolutely. Money has absolutely nothing to do with happiness, in fact happiness or sadness is how we CHOOSE to respond to our environment, its not an outcome of an input.
I first learnt this important lesson when I started travelling a lot in 3rd world countries and I was struck by the reality that most people were happier there than in my own wealthy 1st world country.
One of the greatest sources of unhappiness in our culture is the belief that more money, a bigger house, a new girlfriend, sports car, boob job etc will make us more happy.
My epiphany came when someone told me, "Happiness is not a destination, its a way of travelling, so hop up and get on the train!"
I think in the above comment you are omitting a vital fact which is that we inevitably compare ourselves to those around us. Status is only perceived by comparison. Someone who is considered poor in Australia will be considered enormously rich in most third world countries.Sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement absolutely. Money has absolutely nothing to do with happiness, in fact happiness or sadness is how we CHOOSE to respond to our environment, its not an outcome of an input.
I first learnt this important lesson when I started travelling a lot in 3rd world countries and I was struck by the reality that most people were happier there than in my own wealthy 1st world country.
Somewhat aside from this, an anecdote from this afternoon shopping at Woolworths. While tossing items into my trolley I noticed a middle aged woman painstakingly comparing prices on the shelves. She seemed anxious in demeanour. I happened to end up following her at the checkout. Her bill came to more than she had money for, so she apologetically and with obvious embarrassment asked the clerk to deduct two items, total value about $5. I so felt for her and it occurred to me how easy it would be to say "put those items back in, I'm happy to pay for them". But then I thought that this could cause her a loss of dignity and the sense of being patronised, so didn't do it. I keep thinking about her. .
Sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement absolutely. Money has absolutely nothing to do with happiness, in fact happiness or sadness is how we CHOOSE to respond to our environment, its not an outcome of an input.
I first learnt this important lesson when I started travelling a lot in 3rd world countries and I was struck by the reality that most people were happier there than in my own wealthy 1st world country.
It's difficult to be happy when a "good" meal is home cooked chips and you can't afford to participate in society.Sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement absolutely. Money has absolutely nothing to do with happiness
This is the basic 'positive thinking' stuff that we've all been exposed to at some stage and there's much to be said for it. But it's a world away from actually being happy if you have plenty to be unhappy about.Julia & others, I hear what you are saying and realise its a commonly held belief, but i continue to strongly hold the view that happiness is not an outcome as a result of inputs - be it material wealth, family, relationships or anything else. Its a chosen response, I choose to be happy therefore I am.
And why wouldn't you be happy about having a job to go to which will allow you money to live on?I am getting ready to ride to work, at 5am on a sunday morning, I could find many reasons not to be happy about that, but my choice is to be happy and enjoy.
Sure. As is contained in the thousands of self help books continuing to sell similar messages.To finish I will repeat my mantra, "happiness is not a destination, its a way of travelling, so hop up and get on the train!"
Why didn't you (as I have done in the past myself) pay for the items yourself when it was your time to be served (As those items would be sitting to the side),catch up with the lady and give them to her in the car-park ,by not doing anything when you are in a position to do so is pretty stereotype for someone with money,and I would be embarrassed to admit on a public forum you didn't help.Somewhat aside from this, an anecdote from this afternoon shopping at Woolworths. While tossing items into my trolley I noticed a middle aged woman painstakingly comparing prices on the shelves. She seemed anxious in demeanour. I happened to end up following her at the checkout. Her bill came to more than she had money for, so she apologetically and with obvious embarrassment asked the clerk to deduct two items, total value about $5. I so felt for her and it occurred to me how easy it would be to say "put those items back in, I'm happy to pay for them". But then I thought that this could cause her a loss of dignity and the sense of being patronised, so didn't do it. I keep thinking about her.
What would other ASF members have done? Is it better to try to help someone who obviously is struggling, or is it better to let their dignity be preserved? I don't know.
.
Julia & others, I hear what you are saying and realise its a commonly held belief, but i continue to strongly hold the view that happiness is not an outcome as a result of inputs - be it material wealth, family, relationships or anything else. Its a chosen response, I choose to be happy therefore I am.
I am getting ready to ride to work, at 5am on a sunday morning, I could find many reasons not to be happy about that, but my choice is to be happy and enjoy.
I wont continue to labour the point - its not entirely relevant to the original question about measuring success anyway - and its clear that there is a philosophical difference whereby most of you believe that happiness is a response rather than a choice.
To finish I will repeat my mantra, "happiness is not a destination, its a way of travelling, so hop up and get on the train!"
Nice idea, except:Why didn't you (as I have done in the past myself) pay for the items yourself when it was your time to be served (As those items would be sitting to the side),catch up with the lady and give them to her in the car-park
I'm not embarrassed at all to admit that I didn't know what would be the best thing to do. That's why I sought input from others and I'm interested that - apart from your less than practical suggestion - no one has wanted to comment.I would be embarrassed to admit on a public forum you didn't help.
Just for the record, she wasn't a little old lady. She was an apparently able bodied woman around 40.Success=Happiness seems to be a common theme. The little old lady at the supermarket who was $5 short.
Its a chosen response, I choose to be happy therefore I am.
after thinking about it, and to be sure of what I should do if that happens to me,Nice idea, except:
I had around 60 items to be scanned, packed and paid for.
Supermarket was packed, as was outside area in middle of large mall.
Three separate exits going in three separate directions.
Three separate car parks, all full.
So hardly a practical suggestion.
I'm not embarrassed at all to admit that I didn't know what would be the best thing to do. That's why I sought input from others and I'm interested that - apart from your less than practical suggestion - no one has wanted to comment.
Just for the record, she wasn't a little old lady. She was an apparently able bodied woman around 40.
Totally agree, however, on your description about what can constitute happiness for many.
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