Housing plan to tackle affordability

[tech/a]

Sorry, but I am not going to sit here and praise Tech/a for his achievements like others do on this board.

I am here to question his ethics and morals.

DO TECH/A'S ACTIONS BENEFIT OR INHIBIT OTHERS....THAT IS THE QUESTION UP FOR DEBATE!

Kris.

On greed and morals.

Let me tell you something that happened to me in April.

Its a great story and true

When I met my wife she had 2 girls who were Street Kids who she had looked after as a foster mum (15 in total over 8 yrs) who adopted her as their mum and still do.
One of the girls met one of the guys who worked for me.
Over the next few years they moved from house to house never seeming to get ahead.
So we decided to help out and buy a house (they didnt have enough for a bond let alone a deposit) so 3.7 yrs ago we bought the house and let them be tennents for the cost of interest--they paid all outgoings.

Deal was that in 3 yrs we would go halves in the capital gain and give it to them as a gift--as a deposit on their home.
All went well for 3 yrs.
They then decided to get married.
We paid for the wedding.Paid for the Honeymoon and the 3 kids to go as well.
New House Paperwork was signed---all due to move in when the honeymoon was over.---Off they went in one of the 2 vehicals that were supplied to the family through my company.

Now the interesting bit

19 days into the Honeymoon (of 24) I find my claytons son in law and 4 of my employees have been theiving off me for 4 yrs.The evidence is so compelling and in such a quantity (We found it in text messages on employee phones) that criminal charges have been laid.The last time being the day before his wedding.


When I fronted this piece of scum and asked why didnt you just ask if you needed money his reply------------You could afford it!!

Kris.
I'd reckon this guy would be your IDOL!!

 

[tech/a]

Personally I am awaiting higher interest rates so I can upsize my home.

Knobby can you explain what you mean here?
How this works---- why its better later and not now.

 

[Happy]

I think it goes like this:

Interest rates go higher, people who bought and were stretched to the limit, cannot afford to continue with payments.

They sell, property is absorbed by the market at close to market prices.
Then the avalanche of higher interest victims arrive and now Knobby22 comes in and offers price 22% lower or less and pays cash, so no higher interest worry whatsoever.

There could be different explanation, will see.

 

[krisbarry]

Tech/a, So you are a real human being after all, with feelings too, for that I commend you.

My story...

I moved out of home at the age of 17 with nothing more than a garbage bag full of clothes after suffering 17 years of domestic violence.

I am building my wealth slowly with no help from my family.

I feel wealthy having my life back and yet I am financially not that well off.

So I guess that we have both come from nothing and must agree to disagree on the topic of housing and its affordability.

All is well!

 

[tech/a]

Tech/a, So you are a real human being after all, with feelings too.

Suprising isnt it!

 

[tech/a]

My story...

I moved out of home at the age of 17 with nothing more than a garbage bag full of clothes after suffering 17 years of domestic violence.

I am building my wealth slowly with no help from my family.

I feel wealthy having my life back and yet I am financially not that well off.


All is well!

And now I know where the "attitude" comes from.

Dont let your own preconcieved beliefs shrink the possibilities in your world.
You may find more suprises.

 

[Knobby22]

Knobby can you explain what you mean here?
How this works---- why its better later and not now.

Tech

At present, everyone would have to agree house prices are fully if not over valued. When interest rates rise, the economy suffers and people with very large borrowings suffer. Investors who are overstretched (I'm sure your not one also suffer). Their equity reduces and investors will become sick of ruining their lifestyle for the third property. I remember in 1989 a family friend who lost their whole property portfolio (12 properties) as well as his own home.

So my first point is that there will be more forced sellers on the market.

The second point is that as interest rates rise, the people wanting to borrow to their limits will get their loan sizes reduced. In addition the banks become more fearful.
This will mean that when I am bidding against them I (who have build up a fair bit of wealth in the sharemarket) will be able to get the property for a price that is not overly inflated. Secondly, as the interest rates fall, property prices will increase and I will have additional equity in the home.

Personally, I think a rise of only 2% would be enough to remove the remaining heat out of the market. I also think the next housing boom is a few years away and will not be near the magnitude of the existing boom. Another friend of mine bought a house in an inner suburb just after the previous boom and sold it seven years later for the same price just before the latest boom started. This should happen again.

 

[Knobby22]

Kris

My family is poor and I have never had help from them either. my wife's family is almost as poor though they did pay for our wedding for which I am eternally grateful.

Don't worry about how lucky some people are. Firstly, what is wrong with other people getting a few free things? It doesn't really affect you. It is sometimes annoying when you see other people getting a start up from their parents but you will find in the long run most of them get used to the charity and refuse to invest in their own wealth, preferring to waste money and forever anxiously look at whether their parents are spending their inheritance. It is a great freedom not to be in this position and have this mind set.

Jealousy is a weakness and a wasted emotion. This society pushes material things too much. We all know plenty of miserable people who own the latest cars and gadgets.

I had a great time recently at a pub and everyone there was relaxed and most of them rented and yet they knew how to enjoy life.

Look at Warren Buffett, a bit strange granted, but he lives in a pretty average house and drives a pretty average car. It's all a matter of seeing what's important in life.

 

[kph]

Dont let your own preconcieved beliefs shrink the possibilities in your world.
You may find more suprises.

That pretty much sums it up for me..
I have read various bits of this post and it seems tech/a has copped a bashing for saying it as it is.

No matter where you look, there will always be someone better off and someone worse off than yourself.

The backlash regarding housing affordability is simply symptomatic of something else.
It may be a preconceived notion of what we think we are entitled to in life, based on what others seems to have, or what culturally, we are expected to have, or what we feel we deserve.
This attitude is prevalent in 'developed' western nations especially the US, UK, 'old' Europe and Aus.

There are more opportunities to 'have a go' and get ahead here in Aus than there are in many other parts of the world, some of them right on our doorstep.
Its just a matter of focusing on what you are trying to achieve and geting on with it, instead of being distracted with all the noise and chatter that goes on around you.

Stupid is what stupid does....we have choices here more than most have elsewhere.

kph

 

[Julia]

"It seems TechA has copped a bit of a bashing for saying it like it is"

I agree. Have been following this thread with interest. When an obviously experienced person is attempting to offer helpful suggestions to others (and isn't that at least part of the reason for participating in a forum?) it is pretty difficult to do so without mentioning some of one's achievements, if for no other reason than to add validity to the suggestions. My observation has been that Tech is nevertheless always interested to hear other points of view and retains a flexible outlook on most matters. His contributions on various subjects make the forum a more interesting and useful site.

Kris, I'm truly sorry you had such a rotten start in life. You can feel good about having achieved as much as youu obviously have in spite of that. Perhaps it's time to focus on these, your positive achievements, and let go of the past resentments. Bitterness is something that rarely "gets back at" those who have hurt us. Rather it turns inwards and sours our capacity to experience warmth and goodwill from others. I wish you every success in pursuing what will one day make you happy, and look forward to your continuing contributions to the forum.

Cheers
Julia

 

[krisbarry]

Thanks Julia for your kind words. Yes I am a survivor of a truely horrid childhood and yes this has altered my sense of achievement.

While others have had the easy run, the easy life etc, I have struggled emtionally to put myself back together and to house, feed, clothe and educate myself.

My childhood could have lead me down the path of drugs,alcohol, prostitution, homlessness etc.

But I chose to live life!

I have done it all the hard way and hence the somewhat bitterness I hold towards those who have more than ample to support themselves.

There is no reason to own more than one or two houses in Australia, I see it as pure greed! It is not investment it is greed.

Investing is saving money in a bank account, buying shares, educating yourself, to gain that better paid job etc

But when you take and essential service (Housing) from the ordinary folk and buy more and more housing with that capital is it not just pure greed!

 

[tech/a]

While others have had the easy run, the easy life etc, I have struggled emtionally to put myself back together and to house, feed, clothe and educate myself.

Kris where do you get this idea that all people who have a higher asset base than most have never had to struggle in life??

I have done it all the hard way and hence the somewhat bitterness I hold towards those who have more than ample to support themselves.

How do you quantify more than ample. Consider this. If you just save cash in a bank its value will diminish dramatically each year. In 1968 a house was $9k on average--thats what my father paid. $100k then was an enormous sum.
If you had that then you could pay cash for 10 houses. $3 million will do the same today in 20 yrs I'll be 70 and by then 10 houses will be worth $6 million.
I cant save cash that fast---take off the biggotted glasses!!
$100K today isn't a great deal of money and in many years to come todays riches wont be comparable to the futures cost of living.

There is no reason to own more than one or two houses in Australia, I see it as pure greed! It is not investment it is greed.

See above there is every reason---when the opportunity presents itself.
Kris you're presuming we (investors) buy housing trust homes!!

Investing is saving money in a bank account, buying shares, educating yourself, to gain that better paid job etc

We do that to and thats OK I see thank goodness.

But when you take and essential service (Housing) from the ordinary folk and buy more and more housing with that capital is it not just pure greed!

Kris
I specialise in Esplanade property,small subdivisions and commercial real estate---hardly something "Ordinary folk" get involved in.
It's not even investment its BUSINESS---but I guess your view on this would be that business profit should be limited to YOUR perception of a fair earnings.
Business means that people like you can use that education you carefully selected and paid for to your advantage---we (Oh and a government near you) can give you that opportunity.

Anyway I'm done here-----(this Kris discussion)
Goodluck Kris with whatever you do with your life.
When your older I hope you dont look back and see wasted opportunity.
If living in a communes your thing or a simplistic community go for it.
"Anyone can be a bum even an educated one."

 

[krisbarry]

Yes it is time to surrender. My white flag is now at full mast!

Tech/a, you and I have come from completely different walks of life.

I will take this opportunity to post this as my last on this thread and the last on this board too.

I have really learnt today from Tech/a that he couldn't give a toss about the future housing market, the youth, or others peoples views on this board. As long as he has gained, and got his point of view across, and won the argument thats all thats matters.

I will be using other discussion boards in future!

Farwell to all, and thanks Joe for running a well planned discussion board.

 

[Battman64]

A great shame.
You have a lot to offer here.
The Ignore button works for me....Try it

 

[Knobby22]

I thought it was a draw!

 

[sam76]

I always enjoy reading your posts, Kris.

Don't let it get to you mate.

It would be a shame to see you go.

 

[tech/a]

Unbelievable----KIDS!!!!!!!!!

 

[doctorj]

Perhaps we need a session on Dr Phil.

This thread has provided a fantastic insight into the people behind the avatars. Difference in opinion and circumstance is the key to discussion, education, this forum and even the market.

Kris, you've obviously benefited from some very unique life experiences and this board is poorer without you. Just because we differ on opinion and we don't share the same beliefs doesn't mean we all can't learn something from each other.

One final word though, making money, or the desire to make money doesn't make you a bad person. Tech's success has contributed to the country through tax and those he's employed. Choosing to invest in homes doesn't make you bad any more than investing in Uranium stocks does. This forum is an opportunity to get something (education, different ideas/opinions) in exchange for your own thoughts - in a way its an educational co-op. If we all thought the same thing, it'd be a very boring place!

 

[Smurf1976]

Property is presently the most mainstream hyped up investment class by far. So either the masses have got it right for the first time or this bubble is going to end in tears like every other bubble before it.

Different this time?

 

[doctorj]

You make an interesting point.

There's an addage that when the cabbie starts giving you stock tips, then its time to get out of the market. To put it in perspective, not only have the cabbies been giving "housing" tips for years, but every second cabbie (and mums and dads and bellhops and bank teller etc) has mortgages their primary residence to invest in property.

Imagine if they did the same in shares...