I have often pondered over this myself.
House prices to keep rising for years
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I have often pondered over this myself.
crikey... didn't realise you guys had so much bad blood between each other. Its better than Obama and Hilary.
I think you both need to sit down together, crack open a beer, and watch the most inspiring speech their ever was... its at the end of Rocky IV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=261sgYPcjes
'If I can change... and you can change... we ALL can change... da da daaa. da da daaa.. da da daaa.. da da dooo... dub a da da du da... '
So inspiring!
Cheers
Brad
I think you both need to sit down together, crack open a beer, and watch the most inspiring speech their ever was... its at the end of Rocky IV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=261sgYPcjes
'If I can change... and you can change... we ALL can change... da da daaa. da da daaa.. da da daaa.. da da dooo... dub a da da du da... '
So inspiring!
Cheers
Brad
doogie_goes_off
disbelieve if you can
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Has anyone considered the inflationary spiral on construction due to increased material cost, particularly steel and copper which are integral to modern building, with the raw materials in more demand I reckon the "real cost", not just percieved value of bricks and mortar is on the way up, this makes houses a sure bet for me at this stage, my guess is there is no better time to build than when you are ready because there will still be material demand in 200 years! Until the world is overpopulated and nuclear war breaks out of course.
tech/a
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I'm here all you need do is ask.
Scroll back a page for the answer.
Doggie.
Absolutely.
My import indent offer for structural steel increased 15%. Watch what inflation does to pricing.
numbercruncher
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Anyone in this thread a member of "The Investors club" ?
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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Yep
[sigh] So true to form it's boring. In your thinking, everybody else is a muppet, but you on the other hand, belong to the corporate and intellectual elite and we should all gather round and bask in your excellence. LOL
Your efforts and input are interesting and valuable, but it's the de-edification of everybody else that exposes the fragile self image.
Of course! We all do. That's why we're here.
Is this above average for a property investor? Maybe it is I don't know.
The three variants are undisclosed, so maybe you did, maybe you didn't. But I recall in 2003-2004 you stated that anyone that traded a large amount (a figure of $250k was used) had rocks in their head.
That is on the public record.... somewhere.
You misunderstand my motive. It is for you to have a little respect for others, whether average, muppets, or supertraders.
As we are seriously off-topic, my last post on the matter.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Wayne an observation.... you have moved the discussion from Housing to Tech.
As a keen student of psychology myself I am not qualified to lecture as to why this is. But I will say a lot of people post here for the very reasons you are pushing Techs buttons for and yes you can put my name at the top of the list.
I cannot remember the 1st post I every read of Techs maybe on Reef maybe on the old stock forum (cannot remember the name was it Central) but as a long term lurker I have certainly have only gained as a result.
You are a very smart guy and I respect you for it, so there are hundreds of ways you can engage people, lifes short stay away from the dark side its much more fun being positive.
Focus
As a keen student of psychology myself I am not qualified to lecture as to why this is. But I will say a lot of people post here for the very reasons you are pushing Techs buttons for and yes you can put my name at the top of the list.
I cannot remember the 1st post I every read of Techs maybe on Reef maybe on the old stock forum (cannot remember the name was it Central) but as a long term lurker I have certainly have only gained as a result.
You are a very smart guy and I respect you for it, so there are hundreds of ways you can engage people, lifes short stay away from the dark side its much more fun being positive.
Focus
tech/a
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Wayne
I to will also make this my last post on the "Me" topic.
I'll give credit where its due and have done so in the past.There are quite a few I respect for their input albeit it vastly different in some terms to my own others not so disimilar.
Young Trader is one of those.The guys out of the square.
There are others who I can no longer mention particularly in directing people to their sevices.
IFocus
Regardless of opinion this IS my only motivation for posting.
Back to discussion---anything on the topic or my comments on the topic you wish to address Wayne?
I to will also make this my last post on the "Me" topic.
I'll give credit where its due and have done so in the past.There are quite a few I respect for their input albeit it vastly different in some terms to my own others not so disimilar.
Young Trader is one of those.The guys out of the square.
There are others who I can no longer mention particularly in directing people to their sevices.
IFocus
Regardless of opinion this IS my only motivation for posting.
Back to discussion---anything on the topic or my comments on the topic you wish to address Wayne?
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Robots is in retreat .. get him spruiking again so me and my rich friends can laugh at his ignorance.
Syd west is still falling ... one street in north west down almost 50% ... all the losses being taken by experts like robots haha.
And right now this is really hitting in the last few weeks (ie since my post) listings going up in mosman, cremorne and unlike last year no sold priors and many withdrawals and passed ins.
Ive watched a for sale drop 20k every few days with an asking price down over 100k now.
The robots of this world dont have the big picture view to understand the impact of 12 small rate increases but as the water nears boil they are almost working things out. Almost. Too slowly though.
The property market has managed to soak up some loose change in the economy but its just another market and given the drops we have already had in syd its easy to see it will become more volatile (not quite the asx but not up 10% each an every year either).
Keep it going ... laughing at the impoverished melbornian expert will make this so much sweeter.
Syd west is still falling ... one street in north west down almost 50% ... all the losses being taken by experts like robots haha.
And right now this is really hitting in the last few weeks (ie since my post) listings going up in mosman, cremorne and unlike last year no sold priors and many withdrawals and passed ins.
Ive watched a for sale drop 20k every few days with an asking price down over 100k now.
The robots of this world dont have the big picture view to understand the impact of 12 small rate increases but as the water nears boil they are almost working things out. Almost. Too slowly though.
The property market has managed to soak up some loose change in the economy but its just another market and given the drops we have already had in syd its easy to see it will become more volatile (not quite the asx but not up 10% each an every year either).
Keep it going ... laughing at the impoverished melbornian expert will make this so much sweeter.
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That's 5% increase a year... you actually going backward if you sell at that price and live in it. You would pay 7%-8% interest Plus 1.5% stamp duty and sale commission
It doesnt pay to get in and out of property
Just imagine if price doesn't move at all.
And dont forget stamp duty ... I flipped a property from $1.2m - $1.4m in 18 months ... the robots of the world think thats incredible but factor in $60k stamp duty and $30k agents/advertising etc its $100k or about what a term deposit gives you.
And I was lucky to sell to a property ignorant robot ... but once they have all been parted with the money burning a hole in their pockets (which is actually the banks ha ha) the market will change ... Robots are becoming rarer this year as you will see with auction results and more importantly prices over the next 12 months.
I saw a similar robot on a thread in the US before the crash ... I still lol .. LONG LIVE LOLBOT!
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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Bah - Life is more fun when you dont take the internet too seriously ... especially off topic.
Anyway where is the fun in giving unqualified ..... and unsolicited .... psyche advice ... not exactly ray of sunshine stuff its!
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Tech/A, I can sort of understand you because I have been in your position before (for a short while). That is, being quite biased against the so called "professional financial advisers" because I felt they don't know how to advise their clients to act on opportunities to produce "wealth". (i.e. identify the bull run in properties, identify the opportunities in share trading, identify resource boom, etc) I was also against their risk management and investment advise, that is to diversify and invest for the long term. (buy and hold) And then their salesman attitude to maximise commissions and to make recommendations not in the best interest of their clients.
As someone for me who is very much into future/forex tradings, and investment in "a single basket" without much diversification, I am actually trying to change my career into the financial planning industry even with those biases.
The fact is, FINANCIAL ADVISERS have NEVER been responsible for helping their clients to speculate and/or recommend actions on opportunities based on predicting economic cycle turn around and/or other contrarian "alternative, non-mainstream" investments. This include trading and how to succeed in it. They are not here to help you to create extraordinary wealth, and I never expected to see anyone who would give you that advise in the first place.
If you want a "professional" to help you with that, then well, I doubt there is anyone out there that could help you. Maybe the best person you could talk to on "investment ideas" is YOURSELF.
The fact is that a great majority of the population are not spectuators or professional/dedicated investors. Even highly successful entreprenuers are not as investment minded and focus more on their business. This is where financial advisers come into play, to assist them with "general" strategies to protect wealth, minimise tax and basic wealth creation.
The stuff that a lot of us are doing, speculations in shares/futures, properties, are not mainstream stuff. Mums and dads, rich retirees, and successful businessman do not want advise in such stuff. Maybe they do, but why would any financial advisor would put themselve and their career at risk by advising on speculating for massive wealth creation?
Maybe your circumstance do not require the service of any financial planner. A specialist in taxation, accounting, legal stuff or business planning might be more suitable for you and your investments.
But I agree with Tom still, there ARE some high quality financial advisors out there who aren't just trying to hard sell their "recommended list of products" just for the sake of commission. I don't plan to be that at all, hate to be a hard sale guy anyway. (that's why I hate those credit cards salespeople)
My 2 cents worth.
P.S: yes, sorry, another out of place post. Let's back to the property talk.
As someone for me who is very much into future/forex tradings, and investment in "a single basket" without much diversification, I am actually trying to change my career into the financial planning industry even with those biases.
The fact is, FINANCIAL ADVISERS have NEVER been responsible for helping their clients to speculate and/or recommend actions on opportunities based on predicting economic cycle turn around and/or other contrarian "alternative, non-mainstream" investments. This include trading and how to succeed in it. They are not here to help you to create extraordinary wealth, and I never expected to see anyone who would give you that advise in the first place.
If you want a "professional" to help you with that, then well, I doubt there is anyone out there that could help you. Maybe the best person you could talk to on "investment ideas" is YOURSELF.
The fact is that a great majority of the population are not spectuators or professional/dedicated investors. Even highly successful entreprenuers are not as investment minded and focus more on their business. This is where financial advisers come into play, to assist them with "general" strategies to protect wealth, minimise tax and basic wealth creation.
The stuff that a lot of us are doing, speculations in shares/futures, properties, are not mainstream stuff. Mums and dads, rich retirees, and successful businessman do not want advise in such stuff. Maybe they do, but why would any financial advisor would put themselve and their career at risk by advising on speculating for massive wealth creation?
Maybe your circumstance do not require the service of any financial planner. A specialist in taxation, accounting, legal stuff or business planning might be more suitable for you and your investments.
But I agree with Tom still, there ARE some high quality financial advisors out there who aren't just trying to hard sell their "recommended list of products" just for the sake of commission. I don't plan to be that at all, hate to be a hard sale guy anyway. (that's why I hate those credit cards salespeople)
My 2 cents worth.
P.S: yes, sorry, another out of place post. Let's back to the property talk.
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Temjin
Thanks for your reply thank Goodness someone see's where I'm coming from.
There is a thread on Financial advisors
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3086&highlight=Financial+advisers
Perhaps Mods can clean this thread up and over to there.
I have a suggestion which I'll post a little later on the suggested thread which hopefully You/ Tom /Wayne /and Peppi and others who live outside the square may be interested in contributing.
Thanks for your reply thank Goodness someone see's where I'm coming from.
There is a thread on Financial advisors
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3086&highlight=Financial+advisers
Perhaps Mods can clean this thread up and over to there.
I have a suggestion which I'll post a little later on the suggested thread which hopefully You/ Tom /Wayne /and Peppi and others who live outside the square may be interested in contributing.
I don't like bagging out anyone for their investment decision it's their call and it's their lost/benefits. But the way I see it is
If you buy a property, it's not much difference from leveraging into a stock in a big way. The only way you make money out of property is price going up.
If it stand still you are stuffed and if it's going down you go straight to hell
Because your loss will be multiplied.
I actually know people who bought property and they are force to sell in the next few weeks to meet repayment. I don't think they want to admit that they are over leveraging but down inside I know they feel the pain.
I'm actually in the market in 2 years for a property but I will pay it with cash and no mortgage so I'm just buying my time
and I know a bargain when I spot one.
Amen
If you buy a property, it's not much difference from leveraging into a stock in a big way. The only way you make money out of property is price going up.
If it stand still you are stuffed and if it's going down you go straight to hell
Because your loss will be multiplied.
I actually know people who bought property and they are force to sell in the next few weeks to meet repayment. I don't think they want to admit that they are over leveraging but down inside I know they feel the pain.
I'm actually in the market in 2 years for a property but I will pay it with cash and no mortgage so I'm just buying my time
and I know a bargain when I spot one.
Amen
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Like I was saying ....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=acMZzoeZmnLc&refer=australia
Sydney Prestige Property Sales Fall 35 Percent, Review Says
By Robert Fenner
Feb. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Sales of Sydney prestige homes, properties worth more than A$2 million ($1.8 million), slowed more than 35 percent this year, the Australian Financial Review reported.
There have been 190 such properties sold since the start of 2008, compared with 295 in the year-earlier period, the newspaper said, citing the Dyson Austen Prestige Residential Survey.
Similarly priced properties in Melbourne continue to ``flourish'' after a record 2007, the newspaper said, without providing specific numbers.
To contact the reporter on this story: Robert Fenner in Sydney
This is my market so I would know first hand, unlike Robots with his penny dreadful melbourne properties :headshake
Robot types think property is wonderful because they can leverage, but if there isnt all the credit sloshing around when you go to sell the other robots simply dont have the option to burn the extra cash needed to make the market go up .... and thus starts the vicious cycle ... unless credit markets turn around 180 degrees soon :silly:.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=acMZzoeZmnLc&refer=australia
Sydney Prestige Property Sales Fall 35 Percent, Review Says
By Robert Fenner
Feb. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Sales of Sydney prestige homes, properties worth more than A$2 million ($1.8 million), slowed more than 35 percent this year, the Australian Financial Review reported.
There have been 190 such properties sold since the start of 2008, compared with 295 in the year-earlier period, the newspaper said, citing the Dyson Austen Prestige Residential Survey.
Similarly priced properties in Melbourne continue to ``flourish'' after a record 2007, the newspaper said, without providing specific numbers.
To contact the reporter on this story: Robert Fenner in Sydney
This is my market so I would know first hand, unlike Robots with his penny dreadful melbourne properties :headshake
Robot types think property is wonderful because they can leverage, but if there isnt all the credit sloshing around when you go to sell the other robots simply dont have the option to burn the extra cash needed to make the market go up .... and thus starts the vicious cycle ... unless credit markets turn around 180 degrees soon :silly:.
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OK; I'm not going to engage in a long OT discussion about what financial planners should or should not do according to some people's opinions. I think Temjin has made some good points in his post, so I'll leave it at that.
Perhaps just a short addendum for the benefit of tech/a:
You may have good reasons for disliking financial planners and as I pointed out in my previous post, many of those reasons are fully justified. However what you would clearly like to see financial planners deliver is simply not going to happen for all sorts of reasons, several of them being legislative ones.
Financial planning is one of the most tightly regulated industries out there and unless you are very familiar with the regulatory framework, you will simply have no appreciation of the fact that no Australian Financial Services licensee will allow you to provide the type of service/approach to investing you clearly favour; regardless of whether you as a professional are able work that way & deliver for your clients or not.
If you advise a client to concentrate all his/her investment assets into one asset class, you will get into trouble because no AFSL licensee compliance officer will let you do that. Even if you get your own licence, you will be playing with fire because you can never be certain that a black swan event will not occur, which will wipe your client out. Consequently no professional indemnity insurer will cover you when you inevitably get sued.
Unfortunately - or perhaps fortunately, depending on one's POW - we all have to comply with lots of regulations many of which we sometimes do not agree with. That is the condition of obtaining and working under an AFS licence.
With respect to your comment about how a good accountant could give the sort of tax advice I mentioned before: Sure s/he could. But show me one who will. The majority of accountants are reactive rather than proactive and not trained to employ creative thinking. You may not believe me, but as a SMSF specialist I deal with accountants all the time, so I do know what I'm talking about.
Anyway, enough on this topic. It was not my intention to divert this thread from property to financial planning; these have been responses to some points raised by others.
I'm going away overseas for the next 3 weeks so there will be no further postings from me for at least that long. I mention this so nobody thinks that I ignore private messages or other relevant posts.
Cheers,
Tom R
Perhaps just a short addendum for the benefit of tech/a:
You may have good reasons for disliking financial planners and as I pointed out in my previous post, many of those reasons are fully justified. However what you would clearly like to see financial planners deliver is simply not going to happen for all sorts of reasons, several of them being legislative ones.
Financial planning is one of the most tightly regulated industries out there and unless you are very familiar with the regulatory framework, you will simply have no appreciation of the fact that no Australian Financial Services licensee will allow you to provide the type of service/approach to investing you clearly favour; regardless of whether you as a professional are able work that way & deliver for your clients or not.
If you advise a client to concentrate all his/her investment assets into one asset class, you will get into trouble because no AFSL licensee compliance officer will let you do that. Even if you get your own licence, you will be playing with fire because you can never be certain that a black swan event will not occur, which will wipe your client out. Consequently no professional indemnity insurer will cover you when you inevitably get sued.
Unfortunately - or perhaps fortunately, depending on one's POW - we all have to comply with lots of regulations many of which we sometimes do not agree with. That is the condition of obtaining and working under an AFS licence.
With respect to your comment about how a good accountant could give the sort of tax advice I mentioned before: Sure s/he could. But show me one who will. The majority of accountants are reactive rather than proactive and not trained to employ creative thinking. You may not believe me, but as a SMSF specialist I deal with accountants all the time, so I do know what I'm talking about.
Anyway, enough on this topic. It was not my intention to divert this thread from property to financial planning; these have been responses to some points raised by others.
I'm going away overseas for the next 3 weeks so there will be no further postings from me for at least that long. I mention this so nobody thinks that I ignore private messages or other relevant posts.
Cheers,
Tom R
explod
explod
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A great post Tom and hope it goes well for you on the trip.
Property will rise and fall but we do not know when. As with all investments we are limited to following the trend and when stripped bare, fundamental and technical does just that.
From Buffet's idea I learnt to use my own ruler; but we also need good counsel sometimes and financial advice from the proper source is never wasted.
Property will rise and fall but we do not know when. As with all investments we are limited to following the trend and when stripped bare, fundamental and technical does just that.
From Buffet's idea I learnt to use my own ruler; but we also need good counsel sometimes and financial advice from the proper source is never wasted.
numbercruncher
Beware of Dropbears
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Just saw the Fire Fighters Union on TV, protesting for a payrise, Firefighters earn $21 per hour , shave off some tax and it gives you a perfect example of why the RE boom is over. If the people that stop your house from burning down cant afford to buy one, why should they bother ?
You need massive wage Inflation to keep RE going. But that would mean massive Interest rates.
I cant see any logical reasons why the title of this thread on average is going to prove true.
You need massive wage Inflation to keep RE going. But that would mean massive Interest rates.
I cant see any logical reasons why the title of this thread on average is going to prove true.
hello,
how we going, everybody having a great day
road my bicycle round the streets today all's going well, didnt see any re agencies closing down so all in all things still pretty good,
great to see developers constructing quality apartments for owner-occupiers as Aus embraces this style of RE,
still is great value in the 1970's blocks, this weekend should hold around the 70% rate which is good,
was interesting to see adelaide go to 71% last week as posted by Tech, so very interesting to follow the capital city prices as one changes
thankyou
robots
how we going, everybody having a great day
road my bicycle round the streets today all's going well, didnt see any re agencies closing down so all in all things still pretty good,
great to see developers constructing quality apartments for owner-occupiers as Aus embraces this style of RE,
still is great value in the 1970's blocks, this weekend should hold around the 70% rate which is good,
was interesting to see adelaide go to 71% last week as posted by Tech, so very interesting to follow the capital city prices as one changes
thankyou
robots
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