HIL - Hills Limited

[McLovin]

Many years ago I had them in my head as a niche manufacturer somewhat related to the buildings supply game... they then tried to reposition themselves as a health tech company (why?) and then god knows what they do now.

It's probably a good business management case study on how to shrink to crap-ness.

That's what I had them pegged as. Now it's very hard to know what they do. Sort of like throw enough **** at a wall and hope some of it sticks.

I love the investor presentation.

"Excluding the restructure provisions payments, net cash flow generated by operating activities would have been $8.1 million in 1HFY16...."

I only skimmed over the prezo when it came out, too busy to spend too much time on mediocre companies at that time of year. The things that surprised was they said the share price decline is what triggered the review of asset values. Since when is that the way accountants review carrying values?

 

[Ves]

I only skimmed over the prezo when it came out, too busy to spend too much time on mediocre companies at that time of year. The things that surprised was they said the share price decline is what triggered the review of asset values. Since when is that the way accountants review carrying values?

Yep, that really stood out. I don't think I've seen that excuse before. Sounds like a hotcopper type comment.

Hence my last dig!

 

[Craton]

Sure will/has, but really its been on the cards for months so not a surprise.

Thanks for the reply.

Am not too familiar with the addition/removal process, so when you say "...been on the cards for months..." would assuming that because the valuation of HIL was heading south or was/is below a threshhold (for inclusion) HIL was removed. Is that correct or is there a formula that is used to determine addition/removal?

 

[So_Cynical]

Thanks for the reply.

Am not too familiar with the addition/removal process, so when you say "...been on the cards for months..." would assuming that because the valuation of HIL was heading south or was/is below a threshold (for inclusion) HIL was removed. Is that correct or is there a formula that is used to determine addition/removal?

Heading south in a big way and wasn't a constituent of the ASX200 so in the bottom 100 of the 300 thus a somewhat marginal member.

 

[skc]

Thanks for the reply.

Am not too familiar with the addition/removal process, so when you say "...been on the cards for months..." would assuming that because the valuation of HIL was heading south or was/is below a threshhold (for inclusion) HIL was removed. Is that correct or is there a formula that is used to determine addition/removal?

Yes there's a magical formula somewhere on the S&P website. It's to do with market cap, free float and liquidity. Various brokers will publish at various times, their predictions of index component changes, a week or 2 before the actual announcement by S&P.... and they have a reasonably high hit rate.

The price action subsequent to index changes however is quite unpredictable... there are counter intuitive stuff like "Inclusion in ASX100 means small cap managers have to sell", and therefore creating downward pressure on the share price.

 

[Craton]

Yes there's a magical formula somewhere on the S&P website. It's to do with market cap, free float and liquidity. Various brokers will publish at various times, their predictions of index component changes, a week or 2 before the actual announcement by S&P.... and they have a reasonably high hit rate.

The price action subsequent to index changes however is quite unpredictable... there are counter intuitive stuff like "Inclusion in ASX100 means small cap managers have to sell", and therefore creating downward pressure on the share price.

Cheers skc, figured it'd be along those lines.

It's an interesting thing this to be or not to be included and as noted, has an amount of influence on the price action. An astute trader would take advantage of this no doubt.

FWIW, I knew I'd also spend/waste time ploughing through the S&P site, found a link to the ASX methodology and guess what?
I get a 404 page error. Typical.

Coming back to HIL though, it really does seem like the company has an identity crisis...

 

[So_Cynical]

(12th Mar 2016) Dividend cannot hold, but reckon this is a super contrarian trade, they have cash flow and low debt and some issues...my latest super fund disaster as i was in way too early.

Out today @ 0.61 for a very small 1% profit, was in way to early thus had an expensive parcel, was a super contrarian trade at the bottom around 25c.

 

[Klogg]

A bit of a stagnant thread, but I just started looking at this... mainly because of the Lincor merger/spin-off.
Interested to see how it's structured (in more detail) and current performance of Lincor ex. Hills Health.

(Posting on a forum usually forces me to follow up on whatever it is I'm looking at, hence this post)

Also need to look into the restructure of Hills as a whole, but at face value it doesn't seem too cheap atm... ~$150m MC + ~$22m of debt for $11.5m EBITDA.

 

[So_Cynical]

A bit of a stagnant thread, but I just started looking at this... mainly because of the Lincor merger/spin-off.
Interested to see how it's structured (in more detail) and current performance of Lincor ex. Hills Health.

(Posting on a forum usually forces me to follow up on whatever it is I'm looking at, hence this post)

Also need to look into the restructure of Hills as a whole, but at face value it doesn't seem too cheap atm... ~$150m MC + ~$22m of debt for $11.5m EBITDA.

Was cheap at 25c, that ship has sailed.

 

[Klogg]

Was cheap at 25c, that ship has sailed.

It's more the spin-off I'm curious about. They haven't released any financials on Lincor's potential Australian operations (are there any?) and the relevant balance sheets for each company...

If they spin off the health solutions business, load it with debt and raise capital within that entity, HIL may be cheap again. Need the details.

 

[Ves]

It's more the spin-off I'm curious about. They haven't released any financials on Lincor's potential Australian operations (are there any?) and the relevant balance sheets for each company...

If they spin off the health solutions business, load it with debt and raise capital within that entity, HIL may be cheap again. Need the details.

Lincor will be debt free upon listing according to the presentation in Sept 2016.

Are you looking at the fact that they're expected to raise $30mil at the IPO and noticing that this is around the same gross debt figure in Hills?

hmm, the AGM presentation seems to say "repayment of Hills debt" on page 14 under the heading Lincor Merger?

 

[Klogg]

Lincor will be debt free upon listing according to the presentation in Sept 2016.

Are you looking at the fact that they're expected to raise $30mil at the IPO and noticing that this is around the same gross debt figure in Hills?

hmm, the AGM presentation seems to say "repayment of Hills debt" on page 14 under the heading Lincor Merger?

Yeah, I read that as well. I'm guessing that means they're shipping off all their debt to the new entity, then paying off the debt with a cap raise.

I'm just curious at the moment more than anything. Spin-offs can be quite attractive, so I try and follow them where I can.

 

[farmerge]

As a holder of this now woefull penny dreadful, who would be taking up the share offer at 2c a share.
Not for me. Only holding to remend me that it was once a pretty good company that paid reasonable dividends.
Now only worth a couple of stubbies or a cheap clean skin bottle of red.
Over the years it has slipped deeper and deeper in the abyss

 

[divs4ever]

As a holder of this now woefull penny dreadful, who would be taking up the share offer at 2c a share.
Not for me. Only holding to remend me that it was once a pretty good company that paid reasonable dividends.
Now only worth a couple of stubbies or a cheap clean skin bottle of red.
Over the years it has slipped deeper and deeper in the abyss

an equally disillusioned holder

but i suppose i should have taken the hint when they formed a relationship with WOW ( the serial toxic kisser ) ( i hold WOW 'free-carried ) who was busy at the time

busy at the time of making Masters a new force in hardware

but yes a 12 year trail of tears ( for me )

 

[farmerge]

an equally disillusioned holder

but i suppose i should have taken the hint when they formed a relationship with WOW ( the serial toxic kisser ) ( i hold WOW 'free-carried ) who was busy at the time

busy at the time of making Masters a new force in hardware

but yes a 12 year trail of tears ( for me )

Mr divs a few years ago there was a resurgence in the SP to around 20c something and I did trade them many times on a daily basis. So with that bit of luck the loss isn't as bad as it could have been. But I bought in at somewhere around the $4 mark way back then, so my trail of tears joins yours.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

As reported elsewhere

Hills placed in administration​

A $5.48m court loss has forced once-great Australian manufacturer Hills, which made the iconic Hills Hoist, into administration