Has trading worked out for you?

[tech/a]

Sam

I know this is hindsight but what does the volume tell you on this chart
---I've added a few hints.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Sam

I know this is hindsight but what does the volume tell you on this chart
---I've added a few hints.

View attachment 63682

See that scenario is a good one to check out, I'd be screwed on that chart, I'd be fading the second green circled volume bar as it's big volume like you guys said so I'd be having a go at fading that, especially after it's looked as though its been in a downtrend on the left hand edge from what I can tell? Then like I said I'd get torn a new one because it keeps pushing higher for a few bars all on "strong" volume that we should be fading?

That first huge volume bar(first green circled bar) wouldn't that be weak? Because its got big volume AND closed in the bottom quarter of the bar, I would have probably faded that too when it was live, only thing that maybe would've made me not fade that is the massive volume, but if you just look at the bar and the way its closed, that's weak in any "textbook", hence why I need help on the "patterns", because its clearly not those kinds of patterns.

 

[tech/a]

Sam
The chart is writing a story.
There is a great deal more
Here than each individual bar
And it's associated volume.

I've labeled the bullish Bars green
The bearish bars Red
Resistance is the Blue line.

Now do a commentary from the first green bar
I'll post mine tomorrow.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Can you tell I've stared at the DOM for ages? Waaay to focused on the noise and each individual activity

 

[tech/a]

Now read the bars taking in consideration what the very NEXT bars
Say about the bars you have just commented on.

I note resistance hasn't yet been mentioned?

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Now read the bars taking in consideration what the very NEXT bars
Say about the varsity you have just commented on.

I note resistance hasn't yet been mentioned?

Is that blue line up the top resistance? Okay that changes it, just thought it was a random line(or the crosshairs or something). I would be more inclined to think it was heading there once the high of the huge volume bar(first green one) was pushed through. How do you read it?

This is me trading now on market replay of the DAX, just a one minute chart @ 10x speed trying to get my eye in. This was Monday's session that I replayed just now, zoomed out to see all my trades, waaaay too focused on the noise I think, hence why I snapped and held onto that big winner that got me back to break even, then traded okay.



Bigger picture, bigger picture, bigger picture

 

[Newt]

Wall of text warning - May cause some drowsiness. Do not read before operating heavy machinery.

I'll provide some insight into the mind of the unsuccessful. This isn't directed at the OP, just a warning to eager yet undisciplined lurkers.

Have I been successful, no. Why? No dedication or focus. I might also be inept, but I haven't done enough to say. Lets look at the path I took -
After the GFC and my financial advisers advice of “Buy and hold with as much leverage as you can handle”, I decided I can lose money on my own without paying someone to do it for me. I started knowing absolutely nothing about trading. From there I got pulled in every direction. Stocks, forex, futures, options. Long term hold, end of day, intra day. Chart patterns, indicators, Elliot wave, VSA, tape reading, automated trading systems…

For the first three years all I did was work, eat, sleep and research trading. I'd spend 10-11hrs at work, come home and study trading for 4-5hrs every night. I had no life, surely I was dedicated right? Nope. In reality, trading was second place to work. That 4-5 hrs a day was when I was already mentally exhausted from my day job. My trading research covered too many topics and was too unfocused to get me anywhere. I made myself aware of many things, but not an expert at anything.

Eventually the workload in my day job grew even more. I take pride in doing my job well, so I pushed trading aside (temporarily I told myself).

So here I am now, years have passed, the more work I get done for my employer the more they throw at me. My last pay review increase was a nice round number... Zero (poor economic conditions you see). I have no life outside of work, the only people I talk to are work colleagues. My financial position is degrading with inflation. In the end I sacrificed my life for the the benefit of a company that doesn't even recognise my efforts. The effort continues because I am still dependant on them for my income. Too late I understand that leaving your financial success in the hands of an employer is a conflict of interest. Trading/investment is my only chance to make financial progress and I've poured too much into it to walk away. (there's a name for this particular form of false logic but it escapes me right now). But I've been out of it so long that I almost have to start from scratch. Trouble is that I'm burnt out now, I barely have the motivation to do the dishes each night let alone dedicate myself to a second job.

Don't end up like me, don't leave your future in others hands. But people hoping to succeed should take a good look at how dedicated they really are. Remember that how much effort you expend is a poor indicator of progress. What are you actually achieving? Is this right for you, or would your time be better spent on something else? Just don't spend your life looking for something else.

You've only got one life to live, only a limited amount of time to spend on anything in this world. Be careful what you burn your time on.

Great post Lone Wolf, and good advice for all of us to remember what's important in life. Its easy to think if you throw everything at trading, find success, and get some money under your belt everything will come together for you.

Many great traders (Linda BR, Nick Radge, Darryl Guppy come to mind) emphasise how important it is to be happy in yourself and balanced in your life pursuits. "Enjoy the journey" Nick wrote inside my copy of Unholy Grails, and its b good advice.

I hope you find success in your trading LW and zero in on a timeframe, markets and technique that works for you. Peter2 has made some great posts about different people's trading styles in recent days in his trading thread. Burning out in life and trading is not a good platform for success.

 

[tech/a]

Sam

Don't want to clutter this thread with this stuff Perhaps Joe could move all the volume stuff to another
more appropriate thread.
A fair bit here as an understanding of Volume and how it works is critical if your going to trade the DAX (Or anything else really)

By the way This is how I do it. Not how a book does it.

Click to expand

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Sam

Don't want to clutter this thread with this stuff Perhaps Joe could move all the volume stuff to another
more appropriate thread.
A fair bit here as an understanding of Volume and how it works is critical if your going to trade the DAX (Or anything else really)

By the way This is how I do it. Not how a book does it.

Thanks John, can continue via email?

 

[tech/a]

Thanks John, can continue via email?

If the discussion is beneficial to others then perhaps have Joe transfer it to one of the VSA threads.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Tech are the futures charts? They look like EOD penny terribles?

 

[tech/a]

Tech are the futures charts? They look like EOD penny terribles?

I mentioned on the charts that it is a daily
Volume is enough to be relevant futures far more liquid
And are better I agree.
There are plenty on the DAX
Should do a few on a dedicated thread

 

[darkhorse70]

TH, regarding those guys creating the candles on the 5,10 and 15 min chart I was nailing them on the DAX.

However when i moved on to the FESX, i kept getting bloody smoked.

The markets were way to thick and that type of manipulation was much less obvious.

Ive been struggling so hard on the thicker markets.

I.e on the DAX when the bids thickened up on the DOM and the markets looked like they were set up nicely for a contrarian play, i.e the markets looked like they had a nice support but i was short then id be more than happy to see the bids thicken up.

To me those were the herds trying to support that or b) the smart money creating like some sort of spoofing move.

But on the fesx when the bids or offers thickened they usually hold.

Obviously it was all a matter of context.

I.e whos in the market, what type of trading day cycle is it, i.e range, trending blah blah blah.


However im not going to stop till I figure out how to trade thicker markets.

A well rounded trader is the best type of trader imo.

 

[tech/a]

Personally I'm happy to settle for profitable.
I think that just knowing one specialty is ample

 

[darkhorse70]

Thats true tech, but for example say there is no present opportunity in one market for the day.

That could promote taking on silly trades or if you're lucky enough to trade multiple correlating markets in terms of liquidity etc then sticking to one style could work. However if you can adapt to several different trading styles then your opportunities increase tremendously and it only contributes to promoting a better trading style in the long run.

For example I was doing really great at the dax but couldn't really get the hang of the fesx. Now if you look at the bond markets, depending on which maturities youre trading, some have a range of one to two ticks A DAY !

Imagine trying to trade several hundred points a day to possibly one point.

A huge psychological challenge.

 

[tech/a]

Sure you can do as you say.

But you don't need to trade every session
Or every day.

You might miss the next bull market or the next crash or the next
Housing boom or bust.

You only need to get ONE!

 

[darkhorse70]

Thats true.

BUT (lol) it is a craft and the more reps you do, the better you get or the closer youll get to surviving this game long enough to make some real $.

But yeah it only takes one time and i guess personal preference.

 

[skc]

Thats true.

BUT (lol) it is a craft and the more reps you do, the better you get or the closer youll get to surviving this game long enough to make some real $.

But yeah it only takes one time and i guess personal preference.

Depends on whether you are trying to be a full time trader who generates $$ consistently, or a part time market player who generates $$ only when the conditions are right.

 

[Toothyfish]

Inspired by your stories I would like to share my journey too.
I was drawn into trading during the tech boom as a 20yr old who had a life savings of $10g.
I had tripled the account and blew it during the tech crash. This was pray and hope trading.
I was now hooked to trading and vowed to get my money back.
I dedicated my life to trading. Like lone wolf, all my time and weekends was dedicated to research into trading. I learnt TA, Elliott, Gann, VSA. It was all scattered and I started discretionary trading with a 20g account. My new life savings.
This was at a cost to my professional career and personal social life.
I no longer had time for friends or developing my profession. I just wanted to go home and read more books on trading. Using a combination of options and futures.
I managed to turn my 20g account into 70g before again blowing it in 2004 due to lack of money management.. I had a bitter taste and could not look at the markets for 2 years.
With a new life savings I was motivated to start trading again. This time I was dedicated to mechanical trading. Again, all my time as spent learnibg to program first in metastock, then easylanguagefor tradestation and then C#.
By this time I had spent in excess of 150g in educational courses and trading systems. I started with a 100g account this time and increased it to $500g
But then came the taxman who took $200g in taxes and I suffered a major drawdown of $100g again due to poor money management.
In 2009, I was a single with no social life and a job I despised. All the automated systems I developed or purchased were not consistent.
I was disillusioned with trading and decided it was a casino and quit. I was a depressed, living at home. 32 yr old.
I focused on my career and social life and was generally in a happier place.
I setup my own busines, got married and felt I could look at the markets again. In 2012 I started with a new account of 100g. The past 3 years I have managed a much more modest 30g annual return. For me this is the sweet spot to subsidize my income and beable to sleep at night.
I don't know if there is a moral to the story but I think psychology and money management was were I failed to develop. I still struggle with discipline. I feel you need to have your life in order and a balanced life to trade effectively otherwise the stress will get to you.
My favourite instruments these days is futures indexes. SP500 and Aussie SPI.
I no longer am interested in options or stocks and have never really tried commodities.
Ihave an interest in trading currencies but do not feel I have enought capital and have not been able to develop any system that I feel comfortable using.

 

[myrtie100]

Sam

Don't want to clutter this thread with this stuff Perhaps Joe could move all the volume stuff to another
more appropriate thread.
A fair bit here as an understanding of Volume and how it works is critical if your going to trade the DAX (Or anything else really)

By the way This is how I do it. Not how a book does it.

Click to expand

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Tech/a what did the next bar do?
Stall at resistance?