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Has the 100 year Jihad (war) begun ... ???

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Wysiwyg said:
To defend any behavior, review of history will provide a justification/reason/excuse for what happens in present time. Killing civilians because ...... killing terrorists because ......

Terrorist versus the world. No pity for the under dog.
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We can't solve any problems without knowing what are the possible causes.

If we just assume that terrorism is a Muslim/Islam thing... are we going to either convert or kill all those Muslims? Is that the final solution?

That seem to be the solution we're going for since at least 2001. Look at what happen.

In Iraq alone some 2 to 3 million people got killed. That's the entire population of Sydney, got wiped off the map. Millions more go to refugee camps. Most of the fertile land are probably gone for a few decades.

But that's their problem for being terrorists right?

What about us? We're fine with it?
 
Tisme said:
Islam
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It's a bit more complex than that.

Jordan is an Arab state but seems to get along with Christians and Muslims in the Parliament, and it's also progressive and liberal.

If all the Arab countries in the ME were like Jordan there would be a lot less trouble.
 
SirRumpole said:
It's a bit more complex than that.

Jordan is an Arab state but seems to get along with Christians and Muslims in the Parliament, and it's also progressive and liberal.

If all the Arab countries in the ME were like Jordan there would be a lot less trouble.
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Well then they aren't Islamic then are they.;)


Let me expand on that : my daughter hooked up with a heart surgeon who just happened to be one of those many Jordanian males royals, an affliction that seems to beset every Porsche owning Jordanite male when overseas.:rolleyes: He insisted he was not full on Islamic, which is an oxymoron, then proceeded to stealthily treat mine as a secondary to the rules of seasonal abstinence, prayer and other primitive rules as dictated by a load of scribble, supposedly trumpeted to some war monger back in the days of leprechauns, smirfs and fairies.

Thank Christ she realised what was happening and gave him and his manipulations the flick.

It's like being a Roman Catholic...you either are or you are not.

You go to Israel, Jordan, any of those original seven tribes of Canaan countries, then expect to finagled out of your money and comfort zones, all under the watchful eye of the Yahweh and his cloak of invisibility . IMO.
 
Tisme said:
Well then they aren't Islamic then are they.;)

.
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At least they seem o have an education system that recognises the value of heart surgeons instead of simply relying on Allah for a cure.

Even so, better keep that ticker of yours in good order.
:cool:
 
luutzu said:
We can't solve any problems without knowing what are the possible causes.
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That is true but immediate temporary control is to hunt, kill or incarcerate perpetrators and their accomplices for the criminal activity as every civilised country does. Grievances should be pursued in a civilised manner.

If we just assume that terrorism is a Muslim/Islam thing... are we going to either convert or kill all those Muslims? Is that the final solution?
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To me it is obvious the extremist movement is using the Islam religion as a front for recruitment. The final solution is not infringing on other people or countries. History tells us that infringing on others is a human trait with a goal of control or the satisfaction of vengeance.

In Iraq alone some 2 to 3 million people got killed. That's the entire population of Sydney, got wiped off the map. Millions more go to refugee camps. Most of the fertile land are probably gone for a few decades.

But that's their problem for being terrorists right?

What about us? We're fine with it?
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Dictators, especially those warmongering, bring much grief to their own people. George Bush should be indicted for the invasion. Tough sanctions a better choice.
 
Wysiwyg said:
That is true but immediate temporary control is to hunt, kill or incarcerate perpetrators and their accomplices for the criminal activity as every civilised country does. Grievances should be pursued in a civilised manner.
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I agree. Yes please. Find them and lock them up. Keep us safe.

To me it is obvious the extremist movement is using the Islam religion as a front for recruitment. The final solution is not infringing on other people or countries. History tells us that infringing on others is a human trait with a goal of control or the satisfaction of vengeance.
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Heard David Cameron is calling for more UK bombing of Syria. Haven't they, we?, been doing that? The solution is not more bombs, David.

So we're fighting terrorists at home, spending god knows how much per year... and abroad keep on creating more terrorists because that's how you win wars... and who's paying for all these with their blood and treasure? Not them or their pals.

I mean, China's Ming and Qing dynasties fell because they can't tax their rich and royals, and spend whatever they can tax fighting internal rebellions/terrorists. So while they're too busy going broke and hunting down terrorists, the Manchurian barbarians just walk into the capital and take over; then came the Western barbarians a couple centuries later with a few ships and a few cannons (and loads of opium) and just carve up the middle kingdom.



Dictators, especially those warmongering, bring much grief to their own people. George Bush should be indicted for the invasion. Tough sanctions a better choice.
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The only people sanctions harm are the civilians. Sanction only make dictators more powerful. Look at that fat Kim in North Korea. In Iraq, sanctions Bush the Elder put in place and continued under Bill Clinton caused an estimated 100,000 dead Iraqi children - all from malnutrition and lack of medicine.
 
luutzu said:
The only people sanctions harm are the civilians. Sanction only make dictators more powerful. Look at that fat Kim in North Korea. In Iraq, sanctions Bush the Elder put in place and continued under Bill Clinton caused an estimated 100,000 dead Iraqi children - all from malnutrition and lack of medicine.
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So (pause) turn a blind eye?
 
luutzu said:
Sometime turning blind eyes yet you get to save lives (or not cause death) might be a good thing.
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Maybe the horror of the German and Japanese wars last century has instilled a desire for the (relatively) sane world to step in before death and destruction becomes massive.

Anyway, I'm batting for the (relatively) sane, civilised freer world.
 
Wysiwyg said:
Maybe the horror of the German and Japanese wars last century has instilled a desire for the (relatively) sane world to step in before death and destruction becomes massive.

Anyway, I'm batting for the (relatively) sane, civilised freer world.
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Aren't we all?

People who criticises do so to correct and thus preserve our society, maybe bringing it towards that ideal image of itself. Those who want to bring it down abuse their position, manipulate the masses so they can go on destroying the world, and eventually our own.

As for the terrorists.. they beg and pray that we keep doing what we do - that's why they're doing it. It benefits them in terms of recruitment, benefits them in sending us broke, benefit them in making us out to be rogue states in the eyes of the world where we aren't singing our own song and dance.

I mean, besides the innocent lives lost and the pain it cause their loved ones, the Paris attack costs the French at least few hundred millions dollars. First they got to fight back, then hunt down the mastermind and support network, then beef up their security... then there'd be a lot of holiday plans being cancelled or go elsewhere.

Then being an allied, the US, UK, Australia etc. will have to beef up securities, warn its citizens of their holiday travels. Not good for business, or holiday cheers.

What does the bombs we drop on Syria do anyway? Besides making us feel good about doing something. The ISIS leaderships are probably deep down some tunnels... it's only the few errand boys and loads of civilians we'd be hitting. Those are readily replaced by people seeing their loved ones, seeing their country being blown to bits.

I don't know what our strategy is, but definitely sure it's not to win the war nor the battles nor hearts and mind.

----
Yea, the lessons of WW2 seems to be, to all politicians, that we ought to fight and pre-emptive strike them before they strike us... else WW2 and all the death will follow.

That's the official narrative, and it's wrong.

First, it's a war crime to start war, to pre-empt and take the first strike. Second, it's a war crime to intentionally kill or harm civilian targets.

But let's admit reality exists and in reality, as Tacitus observed way back then, that the mighty do as they please while the weak submit as they must... Let's take that and see how all these benefit us citizens.

The lesson of WW2 regarding first-strike or appeasement... First, Chamberlain and the UK never appease. They weren't like... oh Adolf, you scroundrel, please be nice or else... I'm warning you Adolf, be nice or else, I mean it!

The UK have to appease, have to sit by and watch Hitler and the Nazi build up its military, take over a few weaker European states... all because they have no choice but to appease. Until it is too late.
 
oil from Daesch is sold via Turkey, This country has also been providing weapons to IS;
Turkey is a NATO country so, with Turkey and the Saudis as allies, IS is not going to die quickly!!!
 
Tisme said:
Who's buying the oil from ISIS?
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Heard oil isn't their only, nor their main, source of revenue now.

This ISIS expert estimate that their monthly expenses is about $80M a month. So oil alone won't cover it. What they do is tax everything in territories they control or influence. According to this guy, ISIS is an actual state in that it has its own money, provide public services, tax its terrorities and all trades within it.

Reminds me of what the VC did in South VN long before they took over. They have their tax collectors going around to all mid-size and big businesses asking for taxation... business people know better to pay up or else.
 
luutzu said:
Heard oil isn't their only, nor their main, source of revenue now.

This ISIS expert estimate that their monthly expenses is about $80M a month. So oil alone won't cover it. What they do is tax everything in territories they control or influence. According to this guy, ISIS is an actual state in that it has its own money, provide public services, tax its terrorities and all trades within it.

Reminds me of what the VC did in South VN long before they took over. They have their tax collectors going around to all mid-size and big businesses asking for taxation... business people know better to pay up or else.
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They probably have links with the Taliban in Afghanistan who control a large slice of the worlds heroin production.
 
SirRumpole said:
They probably have links with the Taliban in Afghanistan who control a large slice of the worlds heroin production.
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Oh yea, you're right. fark. Heard the US has been in talk with the Taliban to bring them into gov't... maybe they weren't so evil after all?

Maybe we ought to give the military an Xbox or you could build them a game SirRumpole. Each side get to duke it out on the consoles and whoever win the game win the territory in real life. That way there's something left to gain, and a lot of people don't have to die for it.
 

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