Has Clive Palmer gone loco?

[drsmith]

It seems there was a little soul searching from uncle Clive over the weekend,

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Clive Palmer's defending the way his party handled things in the Senate last Thursday.

CLIVE PALMER: So all in all, it was better not to be flustered, although we were a bit flustered last week, to stick our guns, to get the right amendment done, so that people, members of our community, everybody that's here, will get a reduction in their gas and electricity prices.

We thought it would be fitting for the Government to move the amendment, so it puts it beyond any doubt, or any particular spurious argument.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2014/s4045737.htm

My bolds.

 

[drsmith]

The Senate clerk gave the big teddy bear advice he didn't like last week and now he's turned into a grizzly with a sore head.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...demanding-obedience-from-senate-clerk/5596624

 

[drsmith]

The Australian's Hedley Thomas on Clive Palmer's rant at the senate clerk last week,

PUBLIC servant Maureen Weeks was seen shaking. Her hands trembled and the redness of her eyes gave away her obvious distress.

A witness, who had been increasingly concerned for her as she repeatedly went in and out of the Senate chamber, described to The Australian his disgust at what he subsequently discovered was occurring behind closed doors: a bellowing, bullying tirade by Clive Palmer, furious he was not getting his way.

Parts of the performance were confirmed by Palmer in the days following, but instead of apologising he has denigrated others ”” respected staff in the office of the Clerk of the Senate, people such as Weeks and her boss. Palmer reckons they should lose their jobs.

These people, Weeks among them, knew ”” and had tried to *explain to the founder of the Palmer United Party ”” that his last-minute, half-baked carbon-tax amend*ments effectively amounted to a new “tax”, and could not possibly fly in the Senate last week.

Their efforts to reason with him fell on deaf ears; he yelled and talked about going to the High Court.

“Maureen was very upset ”” she was holding papers and her hands were shaking,” said the *witness.

“She had been doing the drafting in her role as the PUP’s drafter, but each time she tried to hand over the amendments that Clive had demanded in the office, Rosemary (Senate Clerk Rosemary Laing), said ‘No, no ”” they cannot work’.

“Maureen knew that already, and she was distraught ”” she looked stricken and she said: ‘Well what do I do? He just keeps demanding that they go through.’ ”

Palmer’s naivety about the constraints of the upper house can be traced to his lack of experience with one. In the 1980s when he was trying to influence then premier Joh Bjelke-Petersen and the Nat*ional Party, Queensland did not have an upper house.

Nothing has changed.

The surprising thing about the public’s adverse reaction to Palmer in the 48 hours since his Senate tantrum was revealed is that many people are surprised.

This is trademark behaviour ”” accounts of fierce shouting, bullying and threatening of his staff and others, in meetings including at his Sunshine Coast dinosaur park and golf resort, are commonplace. Managers have been blasted as “lazy, thieving, c…s”.

Mardi Mackie, a former resort duty manager, is one of many who have told The Australian that working for Palmer was intolerable. “Unless you can experience it for yourself, it’s impossible for other people to understand how unbelievable it was,” she said.

Mike Hennessy, Palmer’s former bodyguard and security manager who worked closely with him until late last year, described him as an “egotistical bully”.

He predicted in The Australian last Nov*ember: “The people of Australia are going to see it. It’s going to come out when he gets into parliament, because when he gets told he can’t have something, he doesn’t understand the word ‘no’.

“He abuses resort staff on a regular basis and the language is quite explicit to the point where I know of staff (who) have (felt) sick wondering what sort of retribution they are going to get if they tell him that something’s not available to him. He is Jekyll and Hyde.”

On the campaign trail last year, Hennessy witnessed the other side: the Palmer charm offensive.

“He promises them everything, shakes their hand, does the baby-kissing thing, and he (said to me): ‘Well, that went well, Mike, I’ve got them all f..ked,’ ” Hennessy said.

Staff have leaked to The Aus*tralian cases of Palmer’s foul-mouthed abuse, including his rant against a $950-a-night guest and French executive, Didier Guerin, who had sent back an overcooked steak.

Palmer ordered security to kick the loyal guest and his wife off the resort in a scene that appalled onlookers and evoked Fawlty Towers, without the laughs.

Palmer’s Chinese partners regard their commercial relationship as an abusive one. He has been caught out in a recorded conversation abusing a Chinese executive of Citic Pacific, ordering the man to “tell your chairman to stick it up his arse”, that they were “little ****s”, and should “pack up all your f..king gear” at their near $10 billion project, all funded with Chinese money, and “get back to China”.

It has taken a while for more people to know about the real Palmer. This is partly because his money, and his propensity to sue people ”” another classic bullying-and-gagging strat*egy ”” buy him a measure of protection.

Many are intimidated and remain silent out of worry they may lose their house if he brings a legal action.

The Queensland government stood up to him by refusing to do him favours on a Galilee Basin coal province, prompting Palmer to form PUP and to vow to wreak revenge.

With his pledge last week to the Senate Clerk’s staff that he would go to the High Court to validate his wrong-headed position on the carbon tax amendments, Palmer was again wielding the big legal stick. He’ll sue at the drop of a hat.

Another reason it has taken a while can be traced to Palmer’s courtship of sections of media and his folksy epithets. He has been able to project an image of an *eccentric, successful and harmlessly funny uncle.

As the public and more journalists see his antics as a pox on democracy, an assault on the fair go, and an international embarrassment, his image is being remade to something closer to reality.

Many of Palmer’s parliamentary colleagues seem to have twigged to his true colours.

South Australian independent Nick Xenophon, into his second six-year term, said yes*terday: “Clive Palmer’s remarks about the Clerk of the Senate are cowardly, they are unwarranted, and Clive Palmer should apologise.

“These are the remarks of a bully and a coward. He simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about and he’s diminishing himself rather than diminishing the institution of the Senate.”

Democratic Labour Party senator John Madigan described Palmer’s attack as a “low blow” that does him “no credit”.

“I’d suggest play the issue, not the person,” he said. “The staff of the Senate are not to be attacked. I think it’s a low blow. It does Mr Palmer no credit.”

When PUP’s senators work out they can draw a taxpayer-funded pay cheque, be constructive in public life and vote in the Senate, without having to put up with Palmer pulling their strings and yelling it will be all over.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...990346718?nk=f01033c3bb0824ac860247840aa58bf2

 

[noco]

The Australian's Hedley Thomas on Clive Palmer's rant at the senate clerk last week,



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...990346718?nk=f01033c3bb0824ac860247840aa58bf2

The wheels of this windbag are about to fall off.

He thinks he can talk to anyone how he likes.......he might get a way with it in his private enterprise but he has another coming to him if he thinks he can do the same thing in Parliament.

Palmer will be a one time wonder.

Bring on a double dissolution next year and he will be gone.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/a...=1405479822779

 

[Knobby22]

Oh I don't know, Noco. Bring on a poll.

It looks like he is not going to support the very unpopular education reforms (did everyone see the galaxy poll? It is even unpopular with Liberal voters. I don't see why Chris Pynes kids will be able to go to Uni while mine won't be able to afford it, I want them to talk like him also) Cutting research and only letting the dumb rich go to Uni -way to go Australia!

...and he has forced the government to change the financial advisors laws including clauses such as financial advisors are now to act in the best interests of their clients among other changes. I am sure the Courier Mail has all the changes listed.

If not you can read them in the evil Age and Australia's number one paper the SMH. The ABC this morning insinuated the opposite for some reason.

I know he is a bit of a thug and skirts the law in his businesses but hey he appears to be on my side so I would not vote Pup out of the Senate. If the Libs want to make savings then they need to bring down a fair budget. I didn't think when I voted them I that they would act like Republicans and also break nearly every promise they made. They should go to the polls and let us vote on these "reforms".

 

[noco]

Oh I don't know, Noco. Bring on a poll.

It looks like he is not going to support the very unpopular education reforms (did everyone see the galaxy poll? It is even unpopular with Liberal voters. I don't see why Chris Pynes kids will be able to go to Uni while mine won't be able to afford it, I want them to talk like him also) Cutting research and only letting the dumb rich go to Uni -way to go Australia!

...and he has forced the government to change the financial advisors laws including clauses such as financial advisors are now to act in the best interests of their clients among other changes. I am sure the Courier Mail has all the changes listed.

If not you can read them in the evil Age and Australia's number one paper the SMH. The ABC this morning insinuated the opposite for some reason.

I know he is a bit of a thug and skirts the law in his businesses but hey he appears to be on my side so I would not vote Pup out of the Senate. If the Libs want to make savings then they need to bring down a fair budget. I didn't think when I voted them I that they would act like Republicans and also break nearly every promise they made. They should go to the polls and let us vote on these "reforms".

So what savings would you suggest?

 

[Knobby22]

I have plenty of ideas.

In Uni for instance they could get rid of all the bulldust courses or at least don't fund them. We all know there are lots of rubbish courses with no jobs at the end of them. For instance did you know Melbourne Uni does a Bachelor of Science in Surfing Studies. Talk about a waste of taxes. If you are rich enough to be able to do such a course with little prospect of a job at the end then pay for it directly.
If you haven't the marks then don't go to Uni. http://www.toptenz.net/to-10-useless-college-classes-degrees.php

Reduce negative gearing so you can only negative from the income of the house investment, not your wage, as occurs in nearly every other country in the world. This would also make housing affordable. Or alternatively, only allow negative gearing on new houses to increase the building stock.

Pass laws so that companies such as Google which makes millions out of us actually pays tax. We actually give them money to undertake research yet they don't pay ANY tax in Australia!!! They do donate big to both political parties so it would take good morals for Labor or Liberal to even suggest it.

Need I go on?

Note, I am not against some of the Lib proposals, a small charge to go to the doctor for instance is fair. There may be an argument for taxing petrol more but I will let you argue that one.

 

[noco]

I have plenty of ideas.

In Uni for instance they could get rid of all the bulldust courses or at least don't fund them. We all know there are lots of rubbish courses with no jobs at the end of them. For instance did you know Melbourne Uni does a Bachelor of Science in Surfing Studies. Talk about a waste of taxes. If you are rich enough to be able to do such a course with little prospect of a job at the end then pay for it directly.
If you haven't the marks then don't go to Uni. http://www.toptenz.net/to-10-useless-college-classes-degrees.php

Reduce negative gearing so you can only negative from the income of the house investment, not your wage, as occurs in nearly every other country in the world. This would also make housing affordable. Or alternatively, only allow negative gearing on new houses to increase the building stock.

Pass laws so that companies such as Google which makes millions out of us actually pays tax. We actually give them money to undertake research yet they don't pay ANY tax in Australia!!! They do donate big to both political parties so it would take good morals for Labor or Liberal to even suggest it.

Need I go on?

Note, I am not against some of the Lib proposals, a small charge to go to the doctor for instance is fair. There may be an argument for taxing petrol more but I will let you argue that one.

Could you put a figure on what those savings would amount to?

 

[Knobby22]

No, but they would be massive. How many BA degrees are out there!

These are from Vic Uni.
Bachelor of Arts
Bachelor of Arts (Community Development)
Diploma of Arts (Community)
Bachelor of Arts (Criminal Justice Studies)
Bachelor of Arts / Diploma of Liberal Arts
Bachelor of Arts (Honours)
Bachelor of Arts (Honours) (Recreation Management)
Bachelor of Arts (Honours) (Sport Administration)
Bachelor of Arts (Kyinandoo)
Bachelor of Arts (Legal Studies)

Negative gearing is a huge tax bleed.

 

[noco]

No, but they would be massive. How many BA degrees are out there!

These are from Vic Uni.
Bachelor of Arts
Bachelor of Arts (Community Development)
Diploma of Arts (Community)
Bachelor of Arts (Criminal Justice Studies)
Bachelor of Arts / Diploma of Liberal Arts
Bachelor of Arts (Honours)
Bachelor of Arts (Honours) (Recreation Management)
Bachelor of Arts (Honours) (Sport Administration)
Bachelor of Arts (Kyinandoo)
Bachelor of Arts (Legal Studies)

Negative gearing is a huge tax bleed.

Hmmm, I see......thanks Knobby, you have been a big help.

 

[Julia]

Knobby - and also Syd who rails against the government in pretty much every post:
perhaps have a look at the interview this evening on 7.30 with Chris Richardson, one of Australia's most respected economists, who is warning about the need to reduce spending, that spending is considerably outstripping Australia's income, a view also strongly expressed by Martin Parkinson, Secretary of the Treasury, and Glenn Stevens, Reserve Bank Governor, not to mention various other people who usually know what they're talking about.

But despite all that, you like Clive, think he talks sense, are apparently not prepared to consider that his motives are those of revenge and desire to create mayhem. Just as Labor and the Greens apparently think it's quite fine to just go on racking up debt in order to give the unthinking people what they want.

And just btw, Christopher Pyne's accent is typical of South Australia, hardly a reflection of his tertiary education.

 

[Knobby22]

Julia

I know we have to start reducing debt but that reduction should be done fairly and thought through. There are many ways to do this. I have listed many, I could add the reduction of the company tax rate is not good timing.

We know this is social engineering. We already know that they plan to give tax cuts before the election but I know that they won't restore tertiary education funding and my kids will struggle to go to Uni as a result. My niece is in a much worse position as she comes from the country and is now training to be a doctor. The fees will be horrendous and her family can't help.

I don't believe Clive's only ambition is revenge, there are many others as we are all complex creatures and that is a very simplistic view of the situation.

Why is the Coalition attacking our Australian way of life. The fair go? It's not just the Uni fees, it's the huge rise in temporary foreign workers taking jobs from our youth who now have nearly 25% unemployment. We know that is social engineering too to bring down wages.

Everyone deserves a chance to make it whatever their station in life.

Anyone who stops them has my vote. Anyone who attacks my children's future has lost my vote.

As I said, I voted for the Liberal Party, not the US Republican party. I voted for Howard 3 times but he was not like this! Not happy Jan. This will be a deservedly one term Parliament.

 

[luutzu]

When u got elected into office, your investments must go into a black fund right? And to be fair on rich civic minded investors I'm assuming there's no capital gains tax on those forced sales right? Like in the US.

Going into politics might be better than going to the Bahamas and those other shelters.

And u can't just get in and say n do nothing

 

[dutchie]

Niki Savva on Clive Palmer

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...ss-tony-and-bill/story-fnahw9xv-1226991450738

WHEN Clive Palmer crashes and burns, as he inevitably will, he will walk away from the wreckage blaming the giant conspiracy orch*estrated by the government and News Corp Australia, laughing out the side of his mouth at the two small figures scratching through the rubble: Tony Abbott looking for bits of vertebrae and Bill Shorten for an inner compass.

Palmer will take no responsibility for his own demise, or for his soiling of parliament and the inexcusable trashing of the reputations of people bound to impartially serve it and protect it from threats to its integrity from people like him.

The Prime Minister, perversely Zen-like, genuinely believes despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that all is well, or soon will be. The Opposition Leader at least appreciates the uniqueness of the situation but bristles at suggestions he should lift a finger to fix it, or that he bears any responsibility for the damage to the body politic, preferring to pose as an innocent bystander with little power to intervene.

If the past few years have taught us anything, it is that once trashed, reputations are almost impossible to rebuild. An exceptional practitioner of the art could manage it; however, Shorten is yet to show he is talented enough to do it, or has the will to repair the fiscal damage caused by Labor, the Greens and Palmer from now until he finally disintegrates.

Shorten should do what the government has not done and heed Ron Boswell’s advice to the Coalition leadership before he retired from the Senate: do not trust Palmer. The West Australians give similar counsel. They refuse to deal with Palmer because they have no faith he will abide by any agreement. Those who have known him best, or have dealt with him the longest, trust him the least. Ask Campbell Newman, who has taken a principled stand against Palmer.

On Wednesday night a week ago, Palmer shook hands with Environment Minister Greg Hunt and the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Eric Abetz, in Hunt’s office to clinch the deal securing Palmer United Party votes for the carbon tax repeal and Palmer’s amendment to ensure savings were passed on to consumers.

Less than an hour later Palmer began rewriting his own amendment. He was still rewriting it the following morning when he met his puppies and a seasoned drover’s dog, former Greens staff member Ben Oquist, now with the Australia Institute, who has emerged as an unlikely influence on Palmer. When Palmer gave it to the government about 9.15am, it accepted it within minutes.

It recognised its flaw ”” that it was unconstitutional ”” but trusted the Senate clerks would do their job, spot it, then inform the PUPs. The clerk did, suggesting it could be fixed simply by inserting one word: “penalty”.

Palmer was furious, resorted to verbal violence and insisted, as he still does, that he knows more about the Constitution than the clerks, whom he continues to abuse. Of course he does. He is Clive and they are not. Two independents, Nick Xenophon and John Madigan, had the ticker to take him on over it.

One of Palmer’s many problems is he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. At least that was my observation to an Abbott minister who, for his sins, has been compelled to deal with Palmer. His reply was truer: “No. He does know what he doesn’t know and he doesn’t care.”

One of the first people Palmer alerted via text to his plans to vote down the repeal was his buddy Billy, whom he subsequently dudded on changes to financial advice rules. Among the last to know of Palmer’s carbon vote switch were his own senators, two of whom at least, Dio Wang and Glenn Lazarus, are taking their duties seriously. They found out about the same time as the government.

Palmer emasculates Abbott as surely as he renders Shorten *obsolete or complicit in his double dealings, and as certainly as he *tarnishes an already tainted *parliament.

After what happened last Thursday, after the slurs cast by Palmer against his ministers, alleging double-cross or dirty tricks that never happened, after the slurs against hardworking Senate staff, Abbott should have politely but firmly declared that the government had done its best to negotiate with Palmer (which it had), Palmer’s amendment would be *tidied up to ensure it was legal and free of unintended consequences, but that he would tolerate no more silly buggers from anybody, including Palmer, and invited him to vote for the package in parliament. Or not.

If Palmer did not, then it would have been a simple matter to make him wear the tax and the consequences.

The defeated bills could then have been saved for a double-dissolution election ”” not right away because slaughter beckons ”” but any time six months before the expiry of the government’s term, which is the latest it can be held, or whenever the government looks remotely as if it might be in a fit state to fight an election.

Instead Abbott, anxious not to antagonise Palmer ”” as if it’s possible to woo a brown snake ”” declared it “situation normal”. Only if you think a meteor landing on your roof is normal. Ministers were compelled to sing along with Abbott’s tune while privately admitting it is anything but normal and despairing at their leader’s meek responses.

Palmer’s self-detonation could come sooner rather than later; however, he has inflicted lasting damage on Abbott by making him look craven ”” and on an issue where there was supposed agreement.

The suggestion the debacle was the government’s fault took hold in receptive quarters. It is not the government’s fault, unless you want to blame it for not preventing Palmer’s election or that of his senators, but it most certainly is the government’s problem. It will pay the price for Palmer’s orchestrated chaos precisely because it is the government, which theoretically should control chaos.

Others suggest the PUPs and fellow traveller Ricky Muir should be cut some slack because they are not fully trained up yet in media, politics or procedural matters. Tell that to Liberal candidate Jaymes Diaz, crucified for not knowing his party’s asylum-seeker policy during the last election campaign, who subsequently failed to win the seat of Greenway.

The saddest part of the whole sorry episode is that while there will be a temporary respite as all sides resume budget battles, the carbon tax repeal will not stop the near decade-long fight over the weather and whether a tax can change it.



This is what we voted for.

 

[Knobby22]

When u got elected into office, your investments must go into a black fund right? And to be fair on rich civic minded investors I'm assuming there's no capital gains tax on those forced sales right? Like in the US.

Going into politics might be better than going to the Bahamas and those other shelters.

And u can't just get in and say n do nothing

I believe in Australia you just have to declare it. No other rules.

 

[Calliope]

We know this is social engineering. We already know that they plan to give tax cuts before the election but I know that they won't restore tertiary education funding and my kids will struggle to go to Uni as a result. My niece is in a much worse position as she comes from the country and is now training to be a doctor. The fees will be horrendous and her family can't help.

Why should you assume that it is your divine right that we should pay for your children's tertiary. education? Have they considered learning a trade?

Anyone who stops them has my vote. Anyone who attacks my children's future has lost my vote.

I don't think Palmer and his PUPs are the answer to your assumed victim status.Your children's future is your responsibility. Man up!

 

[overhang]

That article Dr Smith linked really gives insight into what a thug Clive is. It's employers like him that are the reasons unions exist, its a pity the unions also have thugs of their own.

 

[SirRumpole]

Why should you assume that it is your divine right that we should pay for your children's tertiary. education? Have they considered learning a trade?

I don't think Palmer and his PUPs are the answer to your assumed victim status.Your children's future is your responsibility. Man up!

Those children may well be operating inside your chest after you've had a heart attack.

Do you want them to do a good job ?

Assuming they can afford to get their degree.

 

[SirRumpole]

Need I go on?

Remove the tax rebate for mining companies for the State royalties they pay. That should be simple and low cost to implement.

Maybe net around $5 billion pa

 

[drsmith]

After what happened last Thursday, after the slurs cast by Palmer against his ministers, alleging double-cross or dirty tricks that never happened, after the slurs against hardworking Senate staff, Abbott should have politely but firmly declared that the government had done its best to negotiate with Palmer (which it had), Palmer’s amendment would be *tidied up to ensure it was legal and free of unintended consequences, but that he would tolerate no more silly buggers from anybody, including Palmer, and invited him to vote for the package in parliament. Or not.

If Palmer did not, then it would have been a simple matter to make him wear the tax and the consequences.

Niki Savva has a good point in the above but the carbon tax wasn't the one to pick for the battle with Clive. The mining tax is a better option.

TA has walked away from Clive Palmer before and will do so again when the timing is better.