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Guns

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Value Collector said:
Cop shoots unarmed man wearing headphones as he walked away unable to hear the cops instructions.

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So what happens to these coppers ? Do they end up in gaol ?

I wonder whether the Damont/Noor case was a "revenge" situation. " A lot of blacks get shot, so I'll take a white person to even it up".
 
luutzu said:
Arrested do not mean guilty though right?

.
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Especially when in the USA it seems black guys might be arrested for just sitting in a Starbucks, even the other customers are shocked that the police came an arrested them when they had done nothing wrong.

The employee was uncomfortable and fearful assuming they were up to no good, so called the police, it is hard to imagine that two white guys would get treated so unfairly, or be assumed to present danger.

 
Value Collector said:
So the guy in the video I posted deserved to be shot?

Can you honestly say you would have shot him?
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What did the cop say when he was asked why he shot?
"I don't know"

Some people should not be in the police force or army. At least the army attempts to reprogram cadets and there is a chain of command. Still get terrible decisions though.

We don't know any background incidents that shaped these cops either. Were they affected by a violent incident prior that affected them going forward?

I've been involved in high level adrenaline/violent situations and seen the weird reactions of all those involved. Not many can handle it, others it affects over time. And a lot of terrible decisions get made.

There are roughly 11 million arrests in the US a year. I'm not into calling all police racist because of a few incidents a year. Some police are racist, incompetent, shouldn't be there, etc. But I don't feel its a majority number.

I don't like identity politics of "poor niggas" either. The issue is more complex than that.
 
After seeing those last 2 videos I can only say, thank God I don't live in the USA. Those police over there are out of control, racist and trigger happy.

And another unarmed man shot.
 
moXJO said:
Some people should not be in the police force or army.
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Absolutely. We had some discussion before about psychopaths in the army, sometimes they can be an advantage, but there is no reason for them in the police forces. I wonder if police recruits have to undergo psychological tests, but even when they stuff up badly they are rarely dismissed or charged, just given an administrative rap over the knuckles.
 
Violent incidents over time change people as well. You can go in with the best intentions and end up with issues and bad judgment. There is a shelf life on how many high stress incidents you can deal with imo.
 

When I'm in the US I quite often mix with blacks. They don't scare me, quite affable, but some of the olive skinned ones who persist on talking with a mangled Italian accent are a worry on occasions.

Growing up in Perth my friends were all makes and models so I don't really carry a negative about them based on race.
 
moXJO said:
There's a reason cops are on edge.
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Of course there is and the easy excuse is they are bigotted, but black coppers shoot black people too. Fear isn't just built on reputation, there's gotta be a lot of first hand experience among the police force.

More white people are shot and killed by police than blacks in the USofA, white people make up 62% of the population.
 
moXJO said:
. I'm not into calling all police racist because of a few incidents a year. Some police are racist, incompetent, shouldn't be there, etc. But I don't feel its a majority number.

.
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I am not saying that the racism is overt, eg I am not saying that these people are closet nazi's or ku klux klan members etc.

Its more about subconscious racism, a person can believe they aren't "Racist" as such, but still be affected subconsciously and make judgements based on race without realising it.

eg - being more likely to be feel threatened by a black person than a white person in the same situation, being more likely to think a black person is lying than a white person, this leads them to be stopped by police more regularly, and leads the police to act more aggressively in situations where a white guy would get the benefit of the doubt.

Obama talks about it here at the 2.45 mark.

 
Being White won't always protect you though.

A cop arrives at the scene of an accident between a truck and an SUV, as the SUV owner attempts to get out of his car holding his wallet, he fumbles with the door due to the car being parked on an incline.

The cop mistakes his wallet for a gun and shoots the unarmed airforce member twice.

Another side affect of cop paranoia from operating in a country with loose gun laws.

 
SirRumpole said:
"I regard the mass shootings as symptomatic of the nihilism and psychological confusion that so deeply characterizes our society at the current time."

I think it's just the fact that the mentally ill can get hold of guns too easily.
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LOL. Yeah I agree. Occam's Razor and all that. But, that won't play well with a sizeable portion of the US population who believe they have a right to own firearms. When the US Constitution was written, it only applied to the federal government. States could legislate who was and who was not allowed firearms. The states were paranoid about tyranny (not unreasonably) and wanted to maintain their own militias in case the national government, with its standing army, went cray cray. That's the reason it's in there.
 
I understand your point of "don't judge all, on the few" but in dangerous situations people will risk assess.
How good their judgment is on said risk assessment is another thing altogether.

Police would be more prone to adverse risk assessment, as they are exposed to whichever group is over represented in arrests.
 

Training could also play a role.

Heard that just about every city in the US sent their senior officers to Israel for training. They come back and either implement the training programmes to their station or hire Israeli to come over and consult further.

Surveillance, crowd control, riot policing and other security methods are among Israel's major exports.

How does Israel come to develop and test their programmes? On the Palestinians. Who are the Palestinians? Enemy combatants and and potential terrorists who's either planning to kill you or about to kill you.

Not saying it's all the training and the Israeli's exports. But reports from a few major protests in the US showed that the police there don't really see protests as a civil rights afforded the citizens under the constitution etc., They see it as a thread, potential act of terrorism.

That's why you (do not see reported) what the police did to protestors during that Dakota Access Pipeline/Water Protector.

There's the cannelling, fencing in protestors they arrested in carpark basement. No toilet, no water.
There's the annal probes, the strip search.

Then there's the tear gas, spraying water cannon on them during the northern winter.

There's the militarisation of their police force. Seem every officer there is part of a SWAT team geared up ready to take out terrorists rather than peaceful demonstrators exercising their rights.

Add to that mix more than a fair number of psyschos and racists who get kicks out of beating up people.
 
SirRumpole said:
Damn stupid allowing anyone to walk around with a gun.

It's still the Wild West in some places apparently.
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Yes indeed!

Heroes of the Wild West who survived in different ways with their guns:

General Custer - George Armstrong Custer -
George Armstrong Custer (December 5, 1839 – June 25, 1876) was a United States Army officer and cavalry commander in the American Civil War and the American Indian Wars. Raised in Michigan and Ohio, Custer was admitted to West Point in 1857, where he graduated last in his class in 1861. With the outbreak of the Civil War, Custer was called to serve with the Union Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Armstrong_Custer

Butch Cassidy - Robert Leroy Parker (April 13, 1866 – November 7, 1908), better known as Butch Cassidy,[1] was a notorious American train robber and bank robber, and the leader of a gang of criminal outlaws known as the "Wild Bunch" in the American Old West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_Cassidy

Sundance Kid - Harry Alonzo Longabaugh (1867 – November 7, 1908), better known as the Sundance Kid, was an outlawand member of Butch Cassidy's Wild Bunch in the American Old West. He likely met Butch Cassidy (real name Robert Leroy Parker) after Parker was released from prison around 1896. Together with the other members of "The Wild Bunch" gang, they performed the longest string of successful train and bank robberies in American history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundance_Kid

Annie Oakley - Annie Oakley (born Phoebe Ann Mosey; August 13, 1860 – November 3, 1926) was an American sharpshooter and exhibition shooter. Her "amazing talent"[1] first came to light at 15-years-old when she won a shooting match against traveling-show marksman Frank E. Butler, whom she later married. The couple joined Buffalo Bill's Wild West show a few years later. Oakley became a renowned international star, performing before royalty and heads of state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Oakley

Geronimo - Geronimo (Mescalero-Chiricahua: Goyaałé [kòjàːɬɛ́] "the one who yawns"; June 16, 1829 – February 17, 1909) was a prominent leader and medicine man from the Bedonkohe band of the Chiricahua Apache tribe. From 1850 to 1886 Geronimo joined with members of three other Chiricahua Apache bands—the Tchihende, the Tsokanende and the Nednhi—to carry out numerous raids as well as resistance to US and Mexican military campaigns in the northern Mexico states of Chihuahua and Sonora, and in the southwestern American territories of New Mexico and Arizona. Geronimo's raids and related combat actions were a part of the prolonged period of the Apache–United States conflict, which started with American settlement in Apache lands following the end of the war with Mexico in 1848.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo

Wyatt Earp - Wyatt Berry Stapp Earp (March 19, 1848 – January 13, 1929) was an American Old West gambler, a deputy sheriff in Pima County, and deputy town marshal in Tombstone, Arizona Territory, who took part in the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, during which lawmen killed three outlaw Cochise County Cowboys. He is often mistakenly regarded as the central figure in the shootout in Tombstone, although his brother Virgil was Tombstone city marshal and deputy U.S. marshal that day, and had far more experience as a sheriff, constable, marshal, and soldier in combat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyatt_Earp

Doc Holiday - John Henry "Doc" Holliday (August 14, 1851 – November 8, 1887) was an American gambler, gunfighter, and dentist, and a good friend of Wyatt Earp. He is best known for his role as a temporary deputy marshal in the events leading up to and following the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_Holliday

Sitting Bull - Sitting Bull (Lakota: Tȟatȟáŋka Íyotake [tˣaˈtˣə̃ka ˈi.jɔtakɛ] in Standard Lakota orthography,[2] also nicknamed Húŋkešni [ˈhʊ̃kɛʃni] or "Slow";[3] c. 1831 – December 15, 1890) was a Hunkpapa Lakota leader who led his people during years of resistance to United States government policies. He was killed by Indian agency police on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation during an attempt to arrest him, at a time when authorities feared that he would join the Ghost Dance movement.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitting_Bull

The Ghost Dance Movement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance

Jesse James - Jesse Woodson James (September 5, 1847 – April 3, 1882) was an American outlaw, bank and train robber, guerrilla, and leader of the James–Younger Gang. Raised in the "Little Dixie" area of western Missouri, James and his family maintained strong Southern sympathies. He and his brother Frank James joined pro-Confederateguerrillas known as "bushwhackers" operating in Missouri and Kansas during the American Civil War. As followers of William Quantrill and "Bloody Bill" Anderson, they were accused of participating in atrocities against Union soldiers and civilian abolitionists, including the Centralia Massacre in 1864.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_James
 
Last edited:
moXJO said:
Police would be more prone to adverse risk assessment, as they are exposed to whichever group is over represented in arrests.
Click to expand...

But studies show that certain groups are more prone to arrest because they are targeted more.

Take those guys arrested in Starbucks, that is quite a humiliating situation, some people would act up and resist in that situation whether they are white or black, if they had acted up, they might have been arrested for resisting or some bogus police assault charge and added to the statistics against blacks, if its mainly blacks getting this unwarranted police attention, then the statistics will be biased, because whites aren't being put in as many negative situations to draw out certain human behaviours.

of course if you target any group more, you will catch them committing more crimes not necessarily because they are committing more crimes than average, but because you are targeting them at an above average rate.

So stereotypes and statistics can feed on each other and give the wrong impression.
 
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