Going Trans

[macca]

I sort of get the male/female transition but would have thought the other way would be difficult, surgically that is.

The mind boggles with some of this stuff.

Many of those who transition don't go "all the way" it is usually described as top surgery and bottom surgery.

Top surgery would be to either augment breasts or remove breasts and is a lot more common than bottom surgery.

The bottom half is usually managed with Meds until the lifestyle adjustments made possible with top surgery are bedded in.

As you say, bottom surgery can get very complicated and it is not always as successful as top surgery

 

[wayneL]

Many of those who transition don't go "all the way" it is usually described as top surgery and bottom surgery.

Top surgery would be to either augment breasts or remove breasts and is a lot more common than bottom surgery.

The bottom half is usually managed with Meds until the lifestyle adjustments made possible with top surgery are bedded in.

As you say, bottom surgery can get very complicated and it is not always as successful as top surgery

Again, only possible within the last 0.0001% of the existence of homo sapiens and only in a first world economy.

Let's all take a minute to think about that.

 

[macca]

Again, only possible within the last 0.0001% of the existence of homo sapiens and only in a first world economy.

Let's all take a minute to think about that.

No argument from me but even in some "primitive" cultures, allowance was made for gay people.

A man could do women's work and live as a woman and a woman could go hunting with the men.

They were simply accepted and treated as another tribal member of their chosen sex.

Unfortunately, now it seems that many folk who like rainbows seems to expect preferential treatment to the detriment of the majority of people.

 

[wayneL]

Two of my favourite people:

John Anderson who is eminently sensible and centrist.

And Zubie who is just Da Bomb (also one of the most sensible people on the interwebz)

 

[wayneL]

A California Democrat mom soeaking out.... This is actually quite shocking.

 

[wayneL]

?

 

[moXJO]

?

The world is that ridiculous now that it's getting harder to spot parody.

 

[basilio]

Jon Stewart interviews Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge on the state banning gender-affirming care for minors even when recommended by parents, medical professionals, psychological professionals, and the American Medical Association.

 

[wayneL]

Can you define gender affirming care bas?

 

[moXJO]

Jon Stewart interviews Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge on the state banning gender-affirming care for minors even when recommended by parents, medical professionals, psychological professionals, and the American Medical Association.

I have no idea why people point to Jon Stewart as being above the grade. Guy has stupid talking points. Trying to equate cancer to body dysmorphia diagnosis and treatment is a dogsht take.
A lot of the points he made were terrible. There should be mental health support during the early years rather than life altering drugs. Only in those rare instances which was a minuscule figure originally.

Young idiots thinking it was great was even more moronic. It's a very complex situation and you don't hear a lot where they got it wrong.

 

[wayneL]

Can you define gender affirming care bas?

Let me help.

In these people which we term "minors", IOW people which society does not consider mature enough to be able to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, drive a vehicle, vote, are on a whim able to decide that they are not actually the sex that they were born with.

We then sterilise them with off label use of drugs to prevent puberty and start hacking off bits of their reproductive anatomy.

In every case this requires lifelong intervention of drugs and/or mechanical means to prevent the organism from trying to revert back to its biological program, ie be the sex they were born with.

Perhaps in a miniscule number of cases this may a prudent course of action, but I stress the number will be minuscule and a small fraction of the people this is being performed on at present, especially minors.

Adults can go for their lives, but on children this is inexcusable, egregious and criminal in my opinion.

 

[SirRumpole]

Let me help.

In these people which we term "minors", IOW people which society does not consider mature enough to be able to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, drive a vehicle, vote, are on a whim able to decide that they are not actually the sex that they were born with.

We then sterilise them with off label use of drugs to prevent puberty and start hacking off bits of their reproductive anatomy.

In every case this requires lifelong intervention of drugs and/or mechanical means to prevent the organism from trying to revert back to its biological program, ie be the sex they were born with.

Perhaps in a miniscule number of cases this may a prudent course of action, but I stress the number will be minuscule and a small fraction of the people this is being performed on at present, especially minors.

Adults can go for their lives, but on children this is inexcusable, egregious and criminal in my opinion.

I may suggest that perhaps the increasing demonisation of men by the media may be one reason some confused males want to go over to the other side.

 

[basilio]

Let me help.

In these people which we term "minors", IOW people which society does not consider mature enough to be able to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, drive a vehicle, vote, are on a whim able to decide that they are not actually the sex that they were born with.

We then sterilise them with off label use of drugs to prevent puberty and start hacking off bits of their reproductive anatomy.

In every case this requires lifelong intervention of drugs and/or mechanical means to prevent the organism from trying to revert back to its biological program, ie be the sex they were born with.

Perhaps in a miniscule number of cases this may a prudent course of action, but I stress the number will be minuscule and a small fraction of the people this is being performed on at present, especially minors. ?????

Adults can go for their lives, but on children this is inexcusable, egregious and criminal in my opinion.

Well clearly The Republican Party and the vehement anti tranners writing this legislation subscribe to this POV.

Children deciding "on a whim " ? Anything approaching proof on that throwaway line ? Didn't think so.
The rest of the story is equally without heart, merit or respect for the processes in place. Unfortunately it sounds very much like the hate filled rant that came from the guy who led the storming of Monash Council meeting to overthrow the drag queen storyreading program.

I think the issue is very, very complex. I have seen two transgender situations in my immediate friendship/family group. Difficult to understand, challenging to accept. But what would have been achieved by forthrightly challenging their situation and deciding to treat them like aliens or creeps or paedophiles ?

Jon Stewart was pointing out that the Republicians were making a political decision to stop citizens from taking the advice and processes the medical community had developed in regard to gender change. They had no evidence to show what their view was based on. That was immaterial to the fact they did not want this to happen becasue they had decided it was some sort of abomination.

Very much like the decisions around abortion really.

 

[basilio]

Does this comment represent the thinking driving this the hate against trans community ?

1 day ago

The entire LGBTQ community crams their narrative to justify their perversion. They want so bad to be accepted as normal they go to great lengths in their marketing campaigns. With great power in Govt and Hollywood, they have infiltrated Corporations, Sports and Governments. But the dark secret you won't hear from anyone even them, is that every new convert to a deviant is in their mind one more potential sex partner to be attracted to. Their whole life is founded on their sexual preferences, and they have gone to great lengths to make themselves a race with special rights. If you don't agree with the narrative, endless name calling and harassment ensues. The power of this perversion is so powerful, it completely consumes the mind with lust, leaving no sense of rationality at the end stage. And its been like this for many thousands of years, and will continue.

Anti-Trans Laws Are Not Politically Popular. The GOP Is Passing Them Anyway.

Republicans are falling over themselves to pass restrictions on transgender Americans, but may be in for a rude surprise if they expect to be rewarded by voters.

www.yahoo.com

 

[basilio]

With reference to the above comment ? Yep absolutely on point. This analysis underlines the thinking and lack of evidence behind the push to stop trans rights.

Opinion: What the anti-trans movement is all about ​

Opinion by Jack Turban

Published 5:56 PM EDT, Mon April 24, 2023

Editor’s note: Jack Turban is an assistant professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco, where he is director of the Gender Psychiatry Program. He is also affiliate faculty at the Philip R. Lee Institute for Health Policy Studies at UC San Francisco. His writing has appeared on CNN and in The Washington Post and The New York Times. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his own. View more opinion on CNN.

CNN —

Conservative legislators made substantial progress this month in their attempts to curtail the rights of transgender children and their families.

Jack Turban

The governors of Indiana and Idaho signed into law bans on gender-affirming medical care for transgender minors despite opposition from major medical organizations, including the American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association and American Academy of Pediatrics.

The Kansas Legislature overrode Gov. Laura Kelly’s veto and banned transgender girls, from kindergarten through college, from playing on girls’ sports teams. And just last week, the US House of Representatives passed a federal anti-trans sports bill (though it’s unlikely to pass the Senate, and President Joe Biden has signaled his intention to veto the legislation if it did). According to some GOP politicians, such legislation is essential to ensure “fairness” and protect children.

But these bills do no such thing. If some of these arguments around fairness and protecting children from LGBTQ people sound familiar, it’s because they’re the same ones used against gay people in the 1990s. These Republicans have simply repackaged old anti-gay rhetoric and scaremongering to target transgender people.

Throughout the late 1980s and early 1990s, some cities in Colorado began passing laws prohibiting anti-gay discrimination. Frustrated by this progress, social conservatives in the state created an organization called Colorado for Family Values.

Worried about more localities passing anti-discrimination laws, which it saw as endorsing non-Christian values, the group came up with a bold strategy: Start a ballot initiative to amend the Colorado Constitution to prohibit state and local government bodies from passing more. The question was: How would it convince voters, who were increasingly tolerant of gay people, to support it?





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The group developed two primary tactics it thought would appeal to different types of voters. The first was a more palatable “fairness” argument. It created the false narrative that anti-discrimination laws would give gay people preferential or “better” treatment than straight people. It ran with the catchy slogan “equal rights, not special rights.”

The second was a bit more grotesque — reverting to age-old accusations that gay people were sexual predators and “groomers” who posed a risk to children. The strategies worked, and what was known as Amendment 2 passed.

Colorado for Family Values used the fairness argument in the 1990s to capitalize on a growing discomfort among some Americans regarding affirmative action. Civil rights groups had made great progress, and some Americans feared that affirmative action would help racial minorities at the expense of White people. The anti-discrimination laws in Colorado didn’t take anything away from straight people, but that didn’t matter.

We’re seeing the same repackaged rhetoric play out in transgender sports bans. Social conservatives have argued that these bans are about fairness and paint transgender people as taking things away from cisgender people.

In the court case Soule v. Connecticut Association of Schools, the socially conservative legal advocacy group Alliance Defending Freedom worked on a lawsuit to sue the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference, asserting that two transgender girls competing in the state’s track meets were infringing upon the rights of cisgender track athletes. (Is it a coincidence that the transgender athletes they targeted were African American? It’s unclear, but there’s a history of trying to segregate sports on racial lines, based on presumed biological advantages.) The plaintiffs essentially argued that if transgender athletes could compete, cisgender girls couldn’t win, and this was unfair.

Once again, the facts didn’t matter. Transgender people aren’t taking anything away from cisgender people in sports. In fact, two days after the lawsuit was filed, one of the cisgender girls from that lawsuit won the Class S 55-meter dash title at a state championship race, and the 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals eventually upheld the lower court’s dismissal of the case.





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Trans people are underrepresented in sports titles, and many politicians proposing these laws can’t even name a single transgender athlete in their states. At most, they’ll find a single successful trans athlete such as Lia Thomas, working on the presumption that sports are only fair if trans people never win.

The sports bills aren’t really about fairness. They’re about capitalizing on an electorate that social conservatives know they can rile up with disingenuous arguments and the notion that members of minority groups are taking things away from them.

We’ve also seen a resurgence in social conservatives labeling LGBTQ people as dangerous to children. When advocating for Colorado’s Amendment 2 in the 1990s, Colorado for Family Values distributed 750,000 copies of a pamphlets saying that “sexual molestation of children is a large part of many homosexuals’ lifestyle.” Things are much the same today. US Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted this month that “Democrats are the party of pedophiles,” a comment she doubled down on in a recent interview on CBS’ “60 Minutes.”

Some conservatives have turned this rhetoric into public policy, arguing that laws are needed to force transgender people to use bathrooms of their sex assigned at birth, suggesting that otherwise sexual assault rates in bathrooms will rise. Though research shows that such policies are linked to transgender youth facing higher rates of sexual assault, I worry that facts won’t win out.

In the 1990s, Colorado for Family Values won in large part because it had carefully crafted, emotionally inflammatory rhetoric, and its opponents didn’t. It didn’t matter that facts weren’t on the group’s side. The same is true today.

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In recent years, this rhetoric has been most effectively applied to attacks on gender-affirming medical care. Some conservatives have labeled it “mutilation” and in some instances “child abuse” despite endorsements by major medical organizations.

Those working to support the rights of families and adolescents to access gender-affirming medical care have developed no such effective rhetoric. Subsequently, bills banning gender-affirming care are being introduced and increasingly signed into law.

If we don’t know history, we are doomed to repeat it. It’s vital that people recognize today’s anti-trans attacks for what they are: recycled strategies from the 1990s to spread misinformation and fear toward LGBTQ communities.

The US Supreme Court ultimately struck down Colorado’s Amendment 2. Given the composition of today’s high court, this backstop is unlikely to work. If people don’t wake up to this reality and continue to be drawn into the GOP’s false and emotional rhetoric, we are in for a horrifying period of US history.

Opinion: What the anti-trans movement is all about | CNN

According to some conservative politicians, legislation that curtails the rights of transgender children and their families is essential to ensure fairness and protect children. But such bills do no such thing, writes Jack Turban. If some of these arguments sound familiar, it’s because they’re...

edition.cnn.com

 

[macca]

Hi Bas,

<<Children deciding "on a whim " ? Anything approaching proof on that throwaway line ?>>

In post #6 on this thread I posted that it is generally accepted by the Medical profession that 90% of children who wish to Trans are Autistic or ADHD and they don't like their current life so they wish to change it

It is not a sexual thing, it is a life style thing, which is why all medicos say that any child wishing to transition Must consult with a psychiatrist at least 10-12 times and after that they should be given Meds not surgery.

Surgery comes when they are adults and able to make permanently life changing decisions.

The other problem is that if they "come out" they are immediately given special treatment at school as a reward for doing so, very tempting for a social misfit to be treated as special

 

[wayneL]

@basilio immediately reaches for the hate speech card.

You absolute loon! Adults can do whatever the hell they like, nobody cares so long as it isn't shoved down their throats.

But we are talking here about children and if you cant see that what you are categorising as hate, is out of concern for their welfare, then you are further gone than I thought.

It is actually radicals such as yourself which are more guilty of hate speech than anybody. Analyse without your raging bias and you will see this is fact.

 

[wayneL]

BTW @basilio, you sound like you are in favour of the so-called drag queen "story hour" at Monash City council for 1-6 year olds?

Really?

 

[wayneL]

Yes.
And it's the anti-puberty drugs for minors is when I say absolutely nyet!

 

[SirRumpole]

Ridiculous that schools are poking their noses into children's private lives, that should be the business of the child, their parents and their doctors.

It goes back to that ridiculous 'safer schools' policy devised by the Marxist lesbian Roz Ward.