Going Trans

[basilio]

Just watched a documentary on ABC called " Girl Like you".

By now I reckon most of us have had direct experiences with people who have decided they have the wrong body for how they really think. This doco followed the lives of a young man and his girlfriend over 6 years as they go through the process of him transitioning.

Totally real. No punches pulled. You couldn't make up the characters. Certainly a program to see and think about IMV. Beinterested to hear the range of views on this reality. ( Perhaps see the doco in full first ? )

On Iview for a few weeks.

Catch The Groundbreaking WA Documentary Girl Like You On The ABC This Weekend - Perth is OK!

Girl Like You is a groundbreaking documentary shot in Western Australia, a Rush Films production now available to stream on the ABC.

perthisok.com

Girl Like You

Over six years, a couple battles to stay together as one of them transitions genders; confronting the effects of new body parts, changing gender roles as well as navigating their own evolving sexual identities.

iview.abc.net.au

 

[UMike]

Pity that people have to feel this way.
If a dude feels that it is a dudess. Just wear a dress.

Can't see any benefit in trying to surgically change sex.

 

[wayneL]

Well this is a poisoned chalice, Bas. It's a topic that hardly anyone wants to go anywhere near and give their true opinion. It has become an important cultural and political topic, so here's my opinion for what it's worth.

1/ I don't care nor am I interested in other people if their lives or what I do with their bodies if it doesn't really affect anyone else. Live your best life and do what makes you happy. I can't say that I understand it, but it wouldn't bother me to associate with a trans person if I liked their character.

2/ Here's where I have a problem; the excessive promotion and political power mongering of transexualism to the mainstream community, *especially* to children and will expand in that as we go along.

 

[basilio]

Well this is a poisoned chalice, Bas. It's a topic that hardly anyone wants to go anywhere near and give their true opinion. It has become an important cultural and political topic, so here's my opinion for what it's worth.

1/ I don't care nor am I interested in other people if their lives or what I do with their bodies if it doesn't really affect anyone else. Live your best life and do what makes you happy. I can't say that I understand it, but it wouldn't bother me to associate with a trans person if I liked their character.

2/ Here's where I have a problem; the excessive promotion and political power mongering of transexualism to the mainstream community, *especially* to children and will expand in that as we go along.

I hear you. I wasn't necessarily asking for an opinion on the topic rather than thoughts of the experience of the young man, his girlfriend, family and friends as he went through the process.
This was not a puff piece. The producers were friends of the couple and spent 6 years watching the situation evolve.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think I agree with Wayne.

All the best to the couple but it's not something I want to occupy my time with because it's none of my business.

Maybe the film verges on voyeurism, I don't know because I don't intend to watch it.

Encouraging young people to take drastic steps to satisfy what may be a temporary state of mind could be dangerous.

 

[macca]

Recently, in a newspaper, there was an in depth report on the "trans" mindset and it's effect on our younger people.

All medical people involved, Psychiatrists, Psychologists, GPs, speciality social workers etc all agreed that 90% of Teenagers who transition are either autistic or AHDH with mental health problems.

All agree that No One should be given hormonal supplements without at least 8, preferably 10-12 consults with a Qualified Doctor.

The UK dived into this and their figures support the numbers as well and they now require people to have Medical interviews before making hormones available.

People with "life issues" are making the change in the hope that their life will improve, not because they feel the need to be the opposite sex.

I strongly agree that some folk are in the wrong body, I know two personally and it is obvious that for them to transition is the for the best.

My reading of the Victorian Schools policy is that if a student wishes to trans then they will be supported by the Govt WITHOUT medical counselling and without their parents consent. Hormones will be arranged for them by the school, F****&& unbelievable.

After witnessing the Mardi Gras via the media it is obvious that many Rainbow people simply want to be in the media, they have no desire for simple acceptance by the rest of us

The gay/lesbian people that I have known for over 30 years have actually thanked us for simply accepting them as people, which to be honest was a bit embarrassing as it highlighted how biased some other people are.

To me, true equality is being accepted as a normal part of society without any need or expectation of favourable treatment.

 

[wayneL]

Just to point to consider, the ability to have "sex changes" (for want of a better phrase) to varying degrees, is a function of modern medical and surgical technology and quite impossible until the last few years.

Adding to that point it is quite obviously a very profitable specialisation for those doctors who practise it.

I realised that this is introducing a quite cynical view on the matter, but I have learnt over my life that my cynicism has been well justified.

In addition to the medical aspects, there are also the cultural and political considerations.

Cui bono?

 

[basilio]

Good points all round. I think it is worth saying this doco was in no way voyeuristic ,
It certainly didn't glamourise the idea of transition.

Waynes point about the recent technical capacity for sex changes is very valid.

This doco explored the unvarnished lived reality of a person going through transition. If one was trying to encourage people to think very very carefully about the idea this doco would be the one to watch.

One of the scary parts of the doco were a number of fleeting shots of internet sex change people spruiking their stories.

I'm still interested to hear peoples view after watching it.

The gay/lesbian people that I have known for over 30 years have actually thanked us for simply accepting them as people, which to be honest was a bit embarrassing as it highlighted how biased some other people are.

Absolutely. That is the deal. But lets remember that that acceptance is still not really widespread and a relatively recent situation.

 

[macca]

Good points all round. I think it is worth saying this doco was in no way voyeuristic ,
It certainly didn't glamourise the idea of transition.

Waynes point about the recent technical capacity for sex changes is very valid.

This doco explored the unvarnished lived reality of a person going through transition. If one was trying to encourage people to think very very carefully about the idea this doco would be the one to watch.

One of the scary parts of the doco were a number of fleeting shots of internet sex change people spruiking their stories.

I'm still interested to hear peoples view after watching it.

Absolutely. That is the deal. But lets remember that that acceptance is still not really widespread and a relatively recent situation.

Even now we have friends who label people and we do find it annoying but then we also need to be tolerant of them as well I suppose.

I think I have said before that we went to an engagement party between two men in 1994 and one side was fine but the other family was horrified.

The look of gratitude when"someone" from his list of invitees actually came along was rather sad in a way but understandable at that time.

Another family friend was obviously lesbian since the 60s yet my parents were quite happy to visit her and her friends,

Family values kind of sneak in there without us even realising it is happening don't they, perhaps that is where I get my tolerance of those who are different from.

Gays, lesbians, Aboriginal, Downs syndrome, birthing accidents resulting in physical disabilities, deafness and PTSD all tangled up in their somewhere, no wonder I get confused

 

[SirRumpole]

So maybe they should be following trans people 10 or 20 years later and finding out if they are happy or regretful.

That doesn't seem to happen. Maybe there is a reason, maybe not.

 

[wayneL]

Good points all round. I think it is worth saying this doco was in no way voyeuristic ,
It certainly didn't glamourise the idea of transition.

Waynes point about the recent technical capacity for sex changes is very valid.

This doco explored the unvarnished lived reality of a person going through transition. If one was trying to encourage people to think very very carefully about the idea this doco would be the one to watch.

One of the scary parts of the doco were a number of fleeting shots of internet sex change people spruiking their stories.

I'm still interested to hear peoples view after watching it.

Absolutely. That is the deal. But lets remember that that acceptance is still not really widespread and a relatively recent situation.

So maybe they should be following trans people 10 or 20 years later and finding out if they are happy or regretful.

That doesn't seem to happen. Maybe there is a reason, maybe not.

As at the moment there seems to be both. They are people like Blaire White who have transitioned and seem completely content and happy. Blaire also seems completely happy to acknowledge that she is biologically male and pushes back against trans women are women arguement.

On the other end there are the detransitioners who wished they could reverse what has turned out to be irreversible. It is a very high profile case at the moment for which I cannot remember the name of the person.

It seems to me that if this transition is to be done there there should be a lengthy process to determine whether it is the right thing for the individual, and not just on a whim or from peer pressure.

Disclaimer: I still don't really understand it so probably speaking out of my a55.... But still have 101 thoughts about this.

Later...

 

[macca]

As at the moment there seems to be both. They are people like Blaire White who have transitioned and seem completely content and happy. Blaire also seems completely happy to acknowledge that she is biologically male and pushes back against trans women are women arguement.

On the other end there are the detransitioners who wished they could reverse what has turned out to be irreversible. It is a very high profile case at the moment for which I cannot remember the name of the person.

It seems to me that if this transition is to be done there there should be a lengthy process to determine whether it is the right thing for the individual, and not just on a whim or from peer pressure.

Disclaimer: I still don't really understand it so probably speaking out of my a55.... But still have 101 thoughts about this.

Later...

In the extensive article I mentioned they all agreed that chemical alteration for at least 5 years should be mandatory before any actual operation is done.

A teenage child who transitions is in a sheltered environment, hopefully the parents can cope with the change and the school gives them special treatment, almost like a reward, if they come out.

That is very different to what happens in the real world where it is much harder to cope so surgical changes need to be delayed until 22-25 years old (according to the Docs)

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Louis Theroux did a show on trans in young people. There was a hint in it that some parents are really disappointed when their new baby is the 'wrong' sex, and that there's a subliminal message for the child to be something they're not. eg. you're born a girl and your dad badly wanted a boy, so you feel like you're in the 'wrong body'. But I don't know if that would explain all situations. Some may have a different wiring from birth.

 

[moXJO]

A young female friend of the family transitioned and I remember asking her about the change in mindset from female to male.
She said: " all those things I use to break down and cry about turned into little things I don't care about once the testosterone hit".
Thought it was interesting.

 

[basilio]

A young female friend of the family transitioned and I remember asking her about the change in mindset from female to male.
She said: " all those things I use to break down and cry about turned into little things I don't care about once the testosterone hit".
Thought it was interesting.

Indeed... Certainly a different perspective. The effects of testosterone on how people see situations.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think I have said before that we went to an engagement party between two men in 1994 and one side was fine but the other family was horrified.

Similar here except it was a female couple and both families turned their back, one of them in dramatic fashion.

27 years after they went as close as they could at the time to getting married, they're still together and so far as I can determine somewhat more solid as a couple than rather a lot of heterosexual relationships. Despite being quite different to each other in terms of interests, work and so on it seems to have worked out.

They've since made the marriage legal and official but the 1995 date is the one they and friends acknowledge. They did the suit and white dress thing in 1995 but for the official one it was a formality and that's all.

As for trans people, well just my observation but I think there's more of a spectrum than a firm black versus white situation.

As a heterosexual male who's never thought of himself as anything other than a man, I've never really "got" the argument that men and women can't be friends and nothing more just as I've never really seen gender roles as a big deal. I mean if I exclude associates and just count actual friends then for me it would be pretty close to 50/50 male and female. And whilst I've never worn a dress, and I very much doubt I ever will, I'm sure I could sew one together if I had to.

So I think some do identify far more strongly with gender than others. I know guys who'd have a fit if anyone suggested they do so much as sew a button back on and I know women who'd turn white in the face if anyone suggested they weld something. Not due to difficulty in either case, just the gender role perception thing.

 

[SirRumpole]

Similar here except it was a female couple and both families turned their back, one of them in dramatic fashion.

27 years after they went as close as they could at the time to getting married, they're still together and so far as I can determine somewhat more solid as a couple than rather a lot of heterosexual relationships. Despite being quite different to each other in terms of interests, work and so on it seems to have worked out.

They've since made the marriage legal and official but the 1995 date is the one they and friends acknowledge. They did the suit and white dress thing in 1995 but for the official one it was a formality and that's all.

As for trans people, well just my observation but I think there's more of a spectrum than a firm black versus white situation.

As a heterosexual male who's never thought of himself as anything other than a man, I've never really "got" the argument that men and women can't be friends and nothing more just as I've never really seen gender roles as a big deal. I mean if I exclude associates and just count actual friends then for me it would be pretty close to 50/50 male and female. And whilst I've never worn a dress, and I very much doubt I ever will, I'm sure I could sew one together if I had to.

So I think some do identify far more strongly with gender than others. I know guys who'd have a fit if anyone suggested they do so much as sew a button back on and I know women who'd turn white in the face if anyone suggested they weld something. Not due to difficulty in either case, just the gender role perception thing.

Lesbian/gay relationships are one thing,but mutilating parts of your body to
change your gender is quite another and has to be given serious thought because as far as I know it's irreversible.

It would be interesting to know I f any serious studies have been done to follow those who have gone all the way to see if they thought it was worth it.

We get the propaganda from the LGBTIQ set saying its all hunky dory, but sometimes I wonder if the regret set is bigger than we think.

 

[wayneL]

Lesbian/gay relationships are one thing,but mutilating parts of your body to
change your gender is quite another and has to be given serious thought because as far as I know it's irreversible.

It would be interesting to know I f any serious studies have been done to follow those who have gone all the way to see if they thought it was worth it.

We get the propaganda from the LGBTIQ set saying its all hunky dory, but sometimes I wonder if the regret set is bigger than we think.

Yes.
And it's the anti-puberty drugs for minors is when I say absolutely nyet!

 

[dyna]

Maybe the film verges on voyeurism, I don't know because I don't intend to watch it.

For most of my life I would have had absolutely no interest in this topic . That is , until last month when quite by chance I began to read Ed Ayres " Whole notes : Life Lessons Through Music " . I recognised the author's name from his ABC radio program . Had no idea he was "trans" ( real name was once ,Emma )
For someone like me , raised in the dreadful homophobe era of the 1970's , it opened my eyes to much more than the man's love of music.

 

[SirRumpole]

For most of my life I would have had absolutely no interest in this topic . That is , until last month when quite by chance I began to read Ed Ayres " Whole notes : Life Lessons Through Music " . I recognised the author's name from his ABC radio program . Had no idea he was "trans" ( real name was once ,Emma )
For someone like me , raised in the dreadful homophobe era of the 1970's , it opened my eyes to much more than the man's love of music.

I sort of get the male/female transition but would have thought the other way would be difficult, surgically that is.

The mind boggles with some of this stuff.