Global Warming - How Valid and Serious?

[Aussiejeff]

Good read, Smurf1976.

In fact, his very last *recommended* option of "putting on warmer clothing" rather than using more energy for space heating was the one we used last year that cut over 35% off our winter gas space heating bill. All we did was buy one of those ultra-light-weight thermally efficient Made-in-China blankets for our bed, then turned down the comfort setting for night operation by 3.5C (from 18.5C to 15C).

Honestly, apart from having to dash a bit to the closet to jump into our tracksuits and ugg boots, we coped easily with the change. Mind you, it makes it a lot easier not being encumbered with screeching young'uns demanding 25C all year round "or else"!. LOL

Can you imagine all those thousands of nasty, black, CO2 balloons we must have kept grounded too!!

New Years Cheers,

AJ

 

[Julia]

Good read, Smurf1976.

In fact, his very last *recommended* option of "putting on warmer clothing" rather than using more energy for space heating was the one we used last year that cut over 35% off our winter gas space heating bill. All we did was buy one of those ultra-light-weight thermally efficient Made-in-China blankets for our bed, then turned down the comfort setting for night operation by 3.5C (from 18.5C to 15C).

Honestly, apart from having to dash a bit to the closet to jump into our tracksuits and ugg boots, we coped easily with the change. Mind you, it makes it a lot easier not being encumbered with screeching young'uns demanding 25C all year round "or else"!. LOL

Can you imagine all those thousands of nasty, black, CO2 balloons we must have kept grounded too!!

New Years Cheers,

AJ

Do you run your air conditioning/heating all year round, AJ?

 

[2020hindsight]

:topic:
I also notice sydneysiders dropped more than 10% (519 to 464) on average water usage this year too - oops compared to 1974 lol (probably a particularly wasteful year to use as datum lol )

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/30/2128885.htm?section=justin

Sydney saves 57b litres of water in 2007
Posted 8 hours 5 minutes ago

New figures from Sydney Water show Sydneysiders have saved about 57 billion litres of water this year.

The State Government has applauded residents for using significantly less water now than in 1974, despite the population rising by 1.2 million.

Water Utilities Minister Nathan Rees says in 1974 one person used an average of 519 litres of water per day. In 2007 it fell to 464 litres

If we say that the average suburb is about 6,000 people (very roughly), then how much water did a suburb use then in 2007?
464 litres x 365 x 6,000 = 1 gigalitre

this is the volume that would be contained under the harbour bridge deck (50m high ) x its width ( 50m) x its span between springing points (500m - less the triangular bits at each end)

 

[Aussiejeff]

Do you run your air conditioning/heating all year round, AJ?

Hi Julia.

Barring the occasional unforeseen extreme weather event, for about 2 months in the changeover between early autumn and late autumn - we rarely have ducted gas heating on, and in the changeover between early spring to late spring - almost never have the ducted evaporative cooling on. So in total, about 4 months with virtually no use of either system.

While it has been possible to reduce the heating bill significantly with very little outlay and some judicious re-programming of the controller, lowering the cooling bill would take a lot more moolah (would need to install lots more roofing insulation, double-glazed windows etc, etc. Since we are paying rent for the house, this definitely won't happen unless the landlord wants to personally lash out big time!

Cheers,

AJ

 

[Julia]

Hi Julia.

Barring the occasional unforeseen extreme weather event, for about 2 months in the changeover between early autumn and late autumn - we rarely have ducted gas heating on, and in the changeover between early spring to late spring - almost never have the ducted evaporative cooling on. So in total, about 4 months with virtually no use of either system.

While it has been possible to reduce the heating bill significantly with very little outlay and some judicious re-programming of the controller, lowering the cooling bill would take a lot more moolah (would need to install lots more roofing insulation, double-glazed windows etc, etc. Since we are paying rent for the house, this definitely won't happen unless the landlord wants to personally lash out big time!

Cheers,

AJ

Hi Aj

Wow, I'm really surprised you need it that much in Victoria! I'm in Qld, four hours north of Brisbane and only use the air/con about five nights a year and never during the day. Do houses in Victoria have ceiling fans?
Good point about the insulation. Few houses here are built with any insulation at all. Unbelievable.
Must admit in NZ we needed the central heating in winter.

 

[numbercruncher]

Bit of Global Warming action for our Victorian cousins ....

Melbourne is expected to have its hottest day in 2007 on Monday, a year climate experts say is Victoria's hottest on record.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=155400

 

[Smurf1976]

Adelaide 43, Melbourne 42 (43 in some parts), even Hobart 33. Already 41 in Adelaide and it's only 11am local time there.

Also very low humidity and, in Hobart at least, strong winds are forecast this afternoon. So regardless of the global warming debate, let's hope no idiots start fires - I'm sure the firefighters don't want to spend New Year's Eve running around with hoses trying to save houses etc.

Not sure about Vic and SA, but it's a fire and watering ban day today in southern Tas as with the strong winds the risk is pretty high. Let's hope the only fire tonight is the fireworks.

 

[2020hindsight]

let's hope no idiots start fires - I'm sure the firefighters don't want to spend New Year's Eve running around with hoses trying to save houses etc.

Smurf, we had fires in Sydney a few years back - arsonist-initiated .
I met some firies who were bludy exhausted - the supervisor said to me "we caught one the other day - I've got two utes, one with a rifle (usually to put dying animals out of their misery) , one without. He's lucky I was driving the second one that day. "

 

[Smurf1976]

Well I think everyone in Adelaide, Melbourne and Hobart would have been quite warm last night. Ridiculously humid in Tas too made it feel warmer than it actually was. Very low humidity though in Vic and SA.

But climate change? Or just natural variation in the weather? One event doesn't prove anything other than that it was warm last night. It's the trend that counts.

 

[numbercruncher]

Exactly Smurf, its the trend that counts, a few nights means little, but facts such as Vic having its hottest year on record should be enough to raise eyebrows ..... Im sure we can expect more ...

 

[treefrog]

I'll know we are serious about global warming when:

coming into summer we put the daylight saving clock back an hour not forward
If you stop and think (and I'm talking here about normal activity) before we fiddle with the clock, in the morning:
a) there is more daylight already
b) it is much much cooler for all forms of activity and life generally
c) the air is cleaner after the reduced activity avernight
in the afternoon the sun has heated everything up and there is less daylight (1.5hrs) after work than there is before (2.5hrs)
so if we went back an hour instead of forward there would be more cooler daylight and a longer period of it (3.5hrs) before work gets in the way

but I'm sure the current decission makers will have some reason for moving the clock the wrong way - its just that I haven't heard one yet

 

[2020hindsight]

Three quotes from Prince Philip over a 20 year period ....
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Prince_Philip,_Duke_of_Edinburgh
Fair to say that he was ahead of his time with some of these quotes..

Where did you get that hat? (1953)
To his wife, the Queen, immediately after her coronation

For conservation to be successful it is necessary to take into consideration that it is a characteristic of man that he can only be relied upon to do anything consistently which is in his own interest. He may have occasional fits of conscience and moral rectitude but otherwise his actions are governed by self-interest. It follows then that whatever the moral reasons for conservation it will only be achieved by the inducement of profit or pleasure.
World Wildlife Fund: British National Appeal Banquet, London, (1962)

...man must accept responsibilities in proportion to his power and, if we are to exercise these responsibilities so that all life can continue on earth, they must have a moral and philosophical basis. Simple self-interest, economic profit and absolute materialism are no longer enough... It has been made perfectly clear that a concern for any part of life on this planet - human, plant or animal, wild or tame - is a concern for all life. A threat to any part of the environment is a threat to the whole environment, but we must have a basis of assessment of these threats, not so that we can establish a priority of fears, but so that we can make a positive contribution to improvement and ultimate survival.

.........
It is an old cliche to say that the future is in the hands of the young. This is no longer true. The quality of life to be enjoyed or the existence to be survived by our children and future generations is in our hands now.
The World Wildlife Fund Congress, London, (1970)

PS treefrog - some good points there
PS (edit) but as Smurf says next post - only if people bother to get out of bed lol.

 

[Smurf1976]

I'll know we are serious about global warming when:
but I'm sure the current decission makers will have some reason for moving the clock the wrong way - its just that I haven't heard one yet

Modern (post-war) daylight saving in Australia was introduced in Tasmania for the 1967-68 Summer at the request of the Hydro-Electric Commission specifically as a means of reducing electricity consumption during the electricity supply emergency. Other measures included rationing, outright bans on various uses of electricity and the purchase of gas turbines and a generator ship.

If we didn't have daylight saving then it would be light at 4am!!! Not much point in that when very few people get up any earlier than 6am unless they're a shift worker etc. Also it would be dark at 8pm in mid-Summer without daylight saving and of course that means the lights on for an hour longer - avoiding that was the original reason for it.

Also I'd argue it probably does a lot of good for health - the day that daylight savings ends is the day most stop exercising in the evening and watch TV instead. Very noticeable change there.

Maybe some different issues in Queensland etc?

 

[Smurf1976]

Record power demand in Victoria today. Peaked about 4:40pm local time at 9439 MW but it was over the previous record for quite a while.

Energy demand keeps going up, up and up. People may well be concerned, but not enough to actually switch anything off it would seem.

At the time of the peak, 7879 MW was from local generation, 1357 MW from NSW, 594 MW from Tasmania. 391 MW was being exported from Vic to SA. The price was $7600 per MWh at the time of peak demand - about 150 times the average. It went up to $9999 in SA.

The good news: Everything worked properly and the lights stayed on. And a nice profit for those selling power into Vic or SA no matter what the source (unless they're hedged). Even better for those buying some back right now at $50.

The bad news: CO2.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Record power demand in Victoria today. Peaked about 4:40pm local time but it was over the previous record for quite a while.

Energy demand keeps going up, up and up. People may well be concerned, but not enough to actually switch anything off it would seem.

Computers/electronics for Christmas and air conditioning???

 

[2020hindsight]

no question in my mind ...

"I don't know why people are concerned about global warming !
why don't they just turn their air conditioners up??! "

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/10/2136000.htm?section=justin

Record power use in Vic heatwave
Posted 5 hours 51 minutes ago
Updated 5 hours 24 minutes ago

Victoria's hot weather has led to record power use across the state.

The national body in charge of power supply, NEMMCO says Victoria set a new record this afternoon, when usage reached 9,100 megawatts.

Power use is expected to continue to climb with temperatures still rising across the state.

The temperature in Melbourne has reached 41 degrees Celsius. At Mildura, the high so far has been 42 degrees and 37 degrees at Ballarat.

Paul Bird from NEMMCO says despite the demand for power caused by the use of air conditioners, there are a lot of reserves in place.

"We still have around about 16 or 17 per cent of power reserves in place and we're very confident that we'll meet not only today's peak demand with the hot weather, but also tomorrow," he said.

oh great reserve - no problem then !!

Meanwhile fires out of control in Ballarat.

Fire authorities are predicting tomorrow's hot weather will bring the worst fire conditions so far this summer.

Firefighters were today fighting a grass fire near Portland in Victoria's far south west, that has burnt about 100 hectares.

A top temperature of 40 is predicted, with winds gusting up to 80 kilometres an hour.

The Department of Sustainability and Environment's Kevin Love says the strong winds will make any fires difficult to control.

"Combined with the very dry conditions particularly in grassland that is indicative of a very high fire danger day," he said.

"So we're asking people to be very careful and the DSE and CFA have declared tomorrow a day of total fire ban."

 

[wayneL]

I'm beginning to think Jeremy Clarkson is right:

And anyway, even if every nation meets its obligations under the Kyoto agreement, the Earth won’t be saved. In fact, the heat expected in 2020 would arrive in 2026. So we ruin our lives to buy just six more years.

The fact is this. Global warming’s coming, so you can don your King Canute hat and stand on the beach waving your Toyota Prius at the advancing heatwave, but it won’t make a ha’p’orth of difference.

Eat, drink and burn fossil fuel, for tomorrow we die.

 

[2020hindsight]

I'm beginning to think Jeremy Clarkson is right:


Eat, drink and burn fossil fuel, for tomorrow we die.

they say a picture tells a thousand words ...

... :evilburn: .......:bad: ...... :nosympath.........:viking:........

 

[wayneL]

they say a picture tells a thousand words ...

... :evilburn: .......:bad: ...... :nosympath.........:viking:........

The truth is that my earlier facetiousness is spot on. There is no point anybody doing anything until the leaders lead instead of spreading messages, least of all me.

I'm going out to get my Range Rover on the weekend... and I'm driving to the pub. Whats the point of living like an 18th century subsistence farmer as the rest of the world carries on regardless... including the "messengers".

 

[Wysiwyg]

they say a picture tells a thousand words ...

... :evilburn: .......:bad: ...... :nosympath.........:viking:........

Too many humans you reckon 2020???
I`ll go and top me self to slow the wheel.