would anyone like to comment on the above?
-B--B- said:i have no problem with measures to reduce pollution.
numbercruncher said:worry about Governments like US and China that are unwilling to act for fear of economic contraction
nc, your post from way back .. lolIm doing my bit as well, I get the mrs to mow the lawns with a pair of scissors
Its not even woth debating with the Deniers anymore as their numbers are so small and insignificant, you just need to worry about Governments like US and China that are unwilling to act for fear of economic contraction. Most Governments accept it, just cant work out how to deal with it, lets hope they dont hum and ho for too long.
China beefs up clean energy drive
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Broadcast: 12/12/2007
Reporter: Stephen McDonnell
China's booming economy may be fuelled by coal but, the world's second biggest polluter, has already stepped up its effort to stop the planet's warming, last year spending more than $8 billion in renewable energy and official policies could see it transform itself into a clean energy superpower.
...
STEPHEN MCDONNELL: It's not very well publicised in the Western world, but China has imposed on itself huge environmental targets - well above what it's required to do under the Kyoto protocol.
Because the chemical signature of light revealed elevated levels of chlorine dioxide above Antartica unlike anywhere else on Earth.
In the late 80s, this was the first piece of evidence which lay the blame for the hole in the ozone on humankind. Nearly all atmospheric chlorine comes from CFCs.
China's booming economy may be fuelled by coal but, the world's second biggest polluter
You are kidding aren't you? CFC's have placed an enormous burden and cost structure on the economy over the last 20 years.Those that beleive need to open your eyes, theirs an obvious economic advantage in going 'green' and those that are following this drivel blindly will be made fools of...it is in the interest of future generations to utilise all minerals and natural resources, not restricting them... by creating a better standard of living now it will ensure a better standard of living for the future.
so you are saying the populations of australia, new Zealand, South Africa and Argentina/Brazil cause that much pollution...then why dont they have the same problem in the northern hemisphere.... and dont say the wind travels the pollution down cos wind pattersn flow in a circular fashion to and from the equator with very little cross flow.
Those that beleive need to open your eyes, theirs an obvious economic advantage in going 'green' and those that are following this drivel blindly will be made fools of...it is in the interest of future generations to utilise all minerals and natural resources, not restricting them... by creating a better standard of living now it will ensure a better standard of living for the future.
You are kidding aren't you? CFC's have placed an enormous burden and cost structure on the economy over the last 20 years.
And secondly, if there is an economic advantage in going green, then why aren't we?!!! That's what the free market is all about!!
Yeah... and how is that any different from now?u misunderstand.. economic advantage for a select few through profit, not the consumer..
EU, US deadlocked at climate change talks
By environment reporter Sarah Clarke
Posted 2 hours 19 minutes ago
The European Union (EU) and the United States remain deadlocked over a key part of the text in the United Nations climate declaration.
On the plenary floor, politicians continue to deliver their national statements but behind closed doors the US is lobbying countries to reject key text that calls for developed nations to commit to emission cuts of up to 40 per cent by 2020.
The EU favours the text. But the United States is adamant specific figures should not be included.
The UN says it wants a mandate that sets up talks for a new climate deal beyond 2012.
With the US and Europe showing no signs of compromise, this meeting is expected to continue until Saturday.
Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says a final Bali mandate must be agreed on at the meeting.
Australia is waiting for the findings of an economics report before it declares its policy on interim targets.
But Mr Rudd says countries must agree on a Bali road map that sets up a new international climate deal when the Kyoto Protocol expires.
"I'd be very concerned if negotiations meant that we had any states indicating they would walk away from the process," he said.
"What I have instructed our negotiators to do is to spare no effort in trying to bridge the gap between developed countries and between developed and developing countries to make sure we have a robust mandate going forward."
Siegfried Frederick Singer (born September 27, 1924 in Vienna) is an American electrical engineer and physicist. He is best known as President and founder (in 1990) of the Science & Environmental Policy Project, which disputes the prevailing scientific views of climate change, ozone depletion, and secondhand smoke[1] and is science advisor to the conservative journal NewsMax.
Singer is also skeptical about the connection between CFCs and ozone depletion,
between UV-B radiation and melanoma[2][3][4][5][6]
and between second hand smoke and lung cancer.[7][8][9]
Singer has also worked with organizations with similar views, such as the Independent Institute,[10] the American Council on Science and Health, Frontiers of Freedom, the Marshall Institute, and the National Center for Policy Analysis.[11]
Singer is Professor Emeritus of environmental science at the University of Virginia.[12]
He says that the temperature 1000 years ago was hotter - he is wrong! plain wrong. Furthermore, the graph of temperature vs time is heading uphill "like an unprecedentally / unprecedently ? homesick angel" as they say.This some clips of global warming denier Dr. S Fred Singer in the CBC Fifth Estate's Denial Industry documentary
This is a short video I made that compares the credentials of climate change "skeptic" and practicing, well published scientist that says climate change is happening and humans are to blame. It's very amatuer production, but I hope it makes the point clear that many of the people who say climate change is not happening are far from authorities in the area of climate change science
why is their such a massive ozone issue in the southern hemisphere when the northern hemisphere is by far the biggest polluters... unless those damn fijians have been consuming vast quantities of fossil fuels
In most parts of the stratosphere, chlorine oxide (ClO) reacts with nitrogen dioxide (NO2), a gas that is found in the upper atmosphere. NO2 comes from natural sources but is also made by human activity. It is a radical, and often an environmental pollutant.
The product of the reaction between ClO and NO2 is ClONO2.
This prevents ClO from reacting with more ozone, slowing down ozone depletion. But it turns out that the polar stratospheric clouds high above Antarctica are a catalyst for a chemical reaction between ClONO2 and HCl. (HCl also exists as a gas in the high atmosphere.)
This reaction produces nitric acid and Cl2. Cl2 will then break down into chlorine radicals when it gets hit by the sun's intense UV radiation. The chlorine radicals can then once again wreak havoc on ozone.
To summarize, over most of the globe, ClO is prevented from destroying ozone by reacting with NO2 to form ClNO2. But over Antarctica, polar stratospheric clouds catalyze the breakdown of ClNO2 which in the end restarts the ozone destroying reaction cycle.
to be honest im more worried about global cooling atm well atleast for my lifetime
wayneL said:Looking around me in the world, this makes me pessimistic. We have to change.
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