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Gillard/Rudd: The End-Game

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qldfrog said:
TA is still ranting about carbon tax: get real, this is the least of the problem in Oz at the current time.
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Incorrect, the carbon tax is one of Australia's biggest problems at the current time.

The well is dry, we are $270B+ in debt. Yet we intend to send tens of billions of dollars offshore and yet another massive Government bureaucracy has been set up costing further billions.
Dollars that should be going to paying off our nation's debt.

Money that will be sent to the socialist bent agenda of the UN and to 3rd world countries with no audited checks-and-balances. Money that will end up where a sizeable amount of all foreign aid already ends up.... in some dictator's pocket, his families bank accounts or the accounts of shady Government cronies and the anointed 'elite'.
Money will be funneled away from cheaper, proven effective energy sources to be crammed into expensive inefficient energy projects, that are yet to be proven to be able to supply the bulk of a nation's energy demands, and which will cause costs to rise for every single Australian whether they can afford the price rises or not.
Sure they may receive a few shekels at the start to shut them up, but the carbon tax is an insidious one that is hidden, unlike the GST. You won't see a carbon tax component on any retail shopping docket or any invoice for that matter, you can bet on that.
Will we ever know exactly what we are paying? No.

Worst of all it is a tax on the private sector, why is Government exempt from the carbon tax? Because it is designed to have a shrinking effect. The last thing the policy makers that worship 'big Government' want is for the very tax that fundamentally destroys to be placed upon themselves.
Projects will be scrapped on the premise of not being carbon efficient, costing jobs. In fact if the carbon nutters had their way there would probably soon be a 'carbon clause' on every new development, with a carbon assessment being the critical factor as to whether the project goes ahead or not.
If you want proof of the destructive effect of the carbon policy, see Obama's comments on the Keystone XL Oil Pipeline. Where will those jobs on that project be created elsewhere on a 'carbon efficient' project in such a short timeline?
Will investment be made in *cough cough* green projects? Sure. However they are inefficient and most importantly subsidised by our tax dollars. If they were efficient and effective they would have already found a major place in the free market. Any project or industry funded to that extent via Government (tax payer) subsidy has no place in a free market system, they are the playthings or those with ideology and agenda.

The carbon tax is designed to slow consumption. When you slow consumption, you slow the economy. When you slow the economy you cost tax revenue and jobs. Jobs, the very thing the Labor Government tout they are the party that protects and creates. Jobs = consumer dollars. Consumer dollars keep small business afloat, there are yet more job losses. At this point we have a Government enforced slow down on both big and small business.
So with Government revenue decreasing, how do they plan to maintain the handouts to the low income earners, whom they are trying to shield from the carbon tax? They either raise the carbon tax, some other tax or stop the handouts.

Please don't bother quoting the environment, the carbon tax is a faulty policy of wealth redistribution and nothing more. If you believe in wealth redistribution come out in the open and do it transparently.
Don't hide behind fanciful 'global threats' where data is taken from only a minuscule fraction of the earth's existence, misconstrued to suit an economic agenda and then quoted as gospel truth.

Funny, and convenient, how 'global warming' became 'climate change' all of a sudden wasn't it?

If you don't believe carbon tax is one of the nations biggest issues and threats, your priorities are sadly misplaced.
 
I will not under any circumstances mount a challenge against your leadership. I go one step further. If anyone turns on Julia in the 18 months ahead ... Julia - you will find me in your corner against them.
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And now the Labor Party considers that I and others will now cast my vote for a party which re-elects as its leader an insincere, two-faced, lying s.o.b?

And yet on the other side of the House is a person considered to be the Mad Monk and, as neither he nor the Liberal Party have yet to govern or clearly enunciate its policies, is a relatively unknown quantity.

And then the Greens who may propose policies but are not responsible for the fiscal outcome as they are not Government or Ministers and only harp about how someone "shoulda dun it" when one of their proposals turns to custard.

A total mess!
 
Now we are playing musical leaders with the same policies.

The public wont be taken into this sham again like they did at the last election, Rudd has had his time.
It was probably a good thing Gillard was ousted by her own party, would have been a bigger blow for her as well.

Can we bring on the election now, I am over this saga.
 
sptrawler said:
Or we could have meandered down the stream of entitlement, casting money overboard to all and sundry.
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Ah, the tired old Liberal argument centered around social Darwinism. Money and political power should only be entrusted to the elites in the boardrooms of Australia. After all, they have the nation's best interest at heart. LOL

Whose interests do you think the Liberals under Abbott really represent? If the past is any guide, it's their masters in the boardrooms of Australia.

Open our welcoming arms to anyone who wants to come, then supply them with our hospitality and gifts.
While taxing those who can afford it, untill those who can afford it, have nothing and they themselves are on welfare.
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What a ludicrous statement! Why not ask the detainees in the island prison camps how welcoming we are to them. Your hero Abbott will only succeed at lowering boat numbers by even more draconian measures. He will never succeed at "stopping the boats" altogether.

Then we gather everyone for a chorus of Kumbaya my Lord. Jeez
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The party most likely to invoke a chorus and pay homage to an invisible and imaginary sky God are the Libs.

Europe is full of that ideology.
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Yes, that hated ideology around social equity. Your idyllic economic and social paradise must be the US, the land of SuperPACs where the 1% control the wellbeing of the nation and the idea of socializing the cost of anything is scorned and ridiculed. Except for the fact they are creating (printing) trillions of dollars to try a pull themselves out of a deep recession.

The problem for your argument is that like the Libs, the EU has until recently favoured austerity measures to solve their debt problems, how was that working for them?
 
qldfrog said:
TA is still ranting about carbon tax: get real, this is the least of the problem in Oz at the current time.
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Are you kidding me? If you really are from Queensland, you really should know better. Rising electricity prices (to which the useless carbon tax contributes 10%) is the number one economic issue in the state at the moment. The entire QLD power industry is in huge upheaval as a result of rising prices, and the other states are all feeling the effects to a greater or lesser extent.
 

Rising power prices are due 95% to state governments (Labor / Liberal- Nats) incompetence 5% carbon tax
 
IFocus said:
Rising power prices are due 95% to state governments (Labor / Liberal- Nats) incompetence 5% carbon tax
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Add the two together and that's 100% incompetence and let's not forget the Greens.

In addition, the proportions, whatever they may be, do not justify the carbon tax in themselves.
 
Gillard will be highly regarded by history for a large range of reasons the ugly rants repeatedly aimed at Gillard will shortly forgotten for the insincere crass behaviour of a generation best forgotten (Tony Abbott and his apologists), Rudd I suspect less so win lose what ever.
 
The first question is whether history judges her more kindly than her own party did.
 
FxTrader said:
The problem for your argument is that like the Libs, the EU has until recently favoured austerity measures to solve their debt problems, how was that working for them?
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Better than the social entitlement ideology that got them in the $hit in the first place.


They didn't chose austerity, because they wanted it, they chose austerity because the alternative was bankrupcy.
 

And yet we still have a AAA credit rating from all 3 ratings agency's, AAA from all 3

A price on carbon was inevitable and is a responsible thing to do, everyone that matters is in agreement, hell it was Liberal/National party policy under Howard and Turnbull.

So in reality 90% of the Labor party, 100% of the Greens and at least 50% of the Noalition accept the need to price carbon in order to ease the transition to Greener energy use and lower GHG emissions.

Oh and for all the doom and gloomers the carbon tax is now almost 12 months old and what's happened?

  • The lights are still on
  • Country's towns haven't closed up
  • The Elderly haven't turned to cat food in greater numbers
  • Industry hasn't shut down and left the country
 
drsmith said:
The first question is whether history judges her more kindly than her own party did.
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The party discussion was about the future history will be about Gillards term
 
So_Cynical said:
And yet we still have a AAA credit rating from all 3 ratings agency's, AAA from all 3
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Only just and for how much longer do we keep it?

So_Cynical said:
[*] The lights are still on
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But no one is home, obviously

Cheap base load power is still in operation. Wait until it is replaced.

So_Cynical said:
[*] Country's towns haven't closed up
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Who said they would?

So_Cynical said:
[*] The Elderly haven't turned to cat food in greater numbers
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You know this, how? Unsubstantiated, you can't prove that either way.

So_Cynical said:
[*] Industry hasn't shut down and left the country
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What an ignorant comment, that is exactly what is happening and will do so at a greater rate in future.
Can you show me where industry has left the shore of other countries and come to ours?


Just because you say it SC, don't make it so. Half your comments here are a generalisation and waste of time and space, you have no statistics or evidence to back them up.
 

Jeez you are full of it, wait and see what labor do to the carbon tax, currently we pay $23/ton.
It will be the first thing dumped.
The lights are still on, but if you read smurphs posts, it's costing us.
Country towns are closing up all the time, mainly due to fifo.
The elderly have been treated well by Labor and should be commended for it.
Industry is in the $hit, big time, don't you look around at all.
 

It's a sad state of affairs when you're asking us to be grateful that the lights are still on or that our credit rating hasn't dropped. I would have thought you should offer something a little more appealing in your pitch. But alas, this is apparently the best you can offer, because there can be no quantitative measure of the benefit of this tax.

The truth is that the global momentum towards a consensus on climate change faltered in 2009 at the Copenhagen summit and has since evaporated. The price of carbon in Europe has collapsed, and there will be no meaningful progress until China and America come on board.

You may be willing to put Australia at a competitive disadvantage just to make it a martyr for your cause, but I'm not so keen, and neither are the majority of Australians.
 

Its a sad state of affairs when good people do nothing in response to real dangers..the truth is you don't have a clue, your in denial and or cant face the facts, your uneducated or misinformed or just don't care enough to find out the facts...i can only encourage you to do so.

Here's a hard core fact for you...In may the world passed a milestone that went mostly unreported.

abc.net.au said:
The world's longest measure of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has reached 400 parts per million (PPM) for the first time in three million years
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-...ches-highest-point-in-3-million-years/4680276

Now this isn't the first time in world history this has happened, but interestingly every single time in world history that we have gone past this (400 PPM) level a major extinction event has occurred, every single time.
 
Kevin Rudd's first day back in office has been christened with the interception of 3 asylum boats carrying over 200 passengers.
 

For someone so 'educated' you would think that you would know the difference between 'your' and 'you're'.
I guess that is why your nick is So Cynical, not So Educated.

It is also a sad state of affairs when bad people fabricate 'dangers' for the purpose of loading themselves with the greatest corrupting influences of our time. Power, control & money.

Carbon dioxide is the new religion. People are losing faith in the spiritual controller, so another had to be created to control the unwashed masses. What better figment of imagination than one from which fear can be installed into the imagination by way of saying "We are destroying the planet for our children and our children's children".
The ultimate emotional hook.


WOW! This incredible matter of gravest concern that, according to you, will lead to a doomsday event went UNREPORTED?
It must have been really credible then, or maybe every single person employed in the media was on an RDO or flexi time and missed it?
I know! The presses ran out of ink, or was it the day the Kanye/Kardashian baby was born? So, wasn't important enough to make the news.
No? Maybe it was actually reported en masse by media but there was a cover-up by an advanced race of aliens who erased our memories?

Here are some hard core questions for you.

Can you list the alleged 'extinction level events'?
How long after the passing of this mark did the previous extinction level events take place?
We have passed the 400PPM level, where is ours?
How long do we have to wait? A year, a thousand, a million?
Are you saying the asteroid that wiped the dinosaurs was the result of CO2 levels passing 400PPM?

Once again a load of general comments with no factual basis supplied to back them up.
 

She will be highly regarded by tribal social democrats like yourself, just as Gough is. But anyone with any analytical skills whatsoever, will regard here as a disaster, just as Gough is.

Her own ugly and imagined misogyny rants will be remembered some of the most corrosive moments in Oz politics.
 
Agree, Wayne

The public are now getting restless for an election, the businesses are calling out, we are all over this sham that has festered for so long.

They wouldnt want to hold the public for much longer as this will never be forgotten.
 
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