Gay Marriage

[Value Collector]

So I expect to be given information that may affect my decision to purchase, including country of origin, and whether the food is "blessed" or not.

.

So you want labelling showing whether the farmer has prayed for his crops?

What if the farmer pays a 10% tithe to his local church on profits made? that would dwarf the 0.001% that gets spent on halal, should there be more labelling showing where farmers donate profits?

I mean who cares is food was "blessed" or Prayed for?

 

[Value Collector]

.


So are you saying that people of strong religious feelings should be banned from all positions of executive or administrative authority ?

Not at all, If they are in the legal system, they just need to put Australian law before Biblical law.

 

[SirRumpole]

So you want labelling showing whether the farmer has prayed for his crops?

What if the farmer pays a 10% tithe to his local church on profits made? that would dwarf the 0.001% that gets spent on halal, should there be more labelling showing where farmers donate profits?

I mean who cares is food was "blessed" or Prayed for?

So who are you to judge what should be "covered up" to the consumer and what shouldn't ? If Halal certification is so good in your opinion, why shouldn't people know about it ?

A lot of products proudly announce when some of their profits go to charity, so what has Halal got to hide ?

And again this comes back to your comment to Tink, about not belonging to cults and not caring to support their causes.

Are you prepared to call Islam a cult ?

And to a question you never answered, if Halal was a Roman Catholic organisation, would you want to know that the food you buy supports an organisation you despise ?

 

[Value Collector]

So who are you to judge what should be "covered up" to the consumer and what shouldn't ?

I don't think the fact that they don't print labels saying when a farmer tithes his to his local church is a cover up.

If Halal certification is so good in your opinion, why shouldn't people know about it ?

I don't think its good or bad, I am indifferent to it.

Companies do let you know about it, they print it on their labels, that the whole point of it.

If you are talking about the roast chicken example, all that probably means it that the slaughter house that kills the chickens does so it a way that complies, Most animals in Australia already get slaughtered in a way that complies.

A lot of products proudly announce when some of their profits go to charity, so what has Halal got to hide ?

Because its not really a charity, its a certification body. Most of the revenue the certification body takes in is spent on wages, rent, phone bills, vehicles etc.

Are you prepared to call Islam a cult

Yes, there are many Islamic cults.

 

[SirRumpole]

But this is getting way off the topic of SS marriage...unless SS marriage is the non halal / kosher form of marriage

You wouldn't be getting SSM under an Islamic government, that's for sure.

 

[Value Collector]

You wouldn't be getting SSM under an Islamic government, that's for sure.

I guess Tinks "Gold Standard" is actual Halal marriage

 

[SirRumpole]

I guess Tinks "Gold Standard" is actual Halal marriage

I'm just very surprised and confused that given your obviously sincere comments supporting both gay marriage and gay parenting, that you (and apparently Syd as well) would be supporting a process that sends funds to organisations that promote homophobia.

 

[luutzu]

I guess Tinks "Gold Standard" is actual Halal marriage

She'd probably prefer to call it "organic"

 

[sydboy007]

I'm just very surprised and confused that given your obviously sincere comments supporting both gay marriage and gay parenting, that you (and apparently Syd as well) would be supporting a process that sends funds to organisations that promote homophobia.

Don't buy sanitarium then

I'm a true liberal, so I don't see that labelling food as kosher or halal is in of itself dangerous. I wont choose to purchase or boycott something because it's been prepared in a certain religious way, unless you could show a scientifically reasonable reason as to why I should.

Do I wish the world had finally moved on from believing in archaic books that are supposed to guide our morality. For sure. Do I have the right to force someone to give up their (IMHO) silly beliefs. No. Just as they don't have the right to proselyte to me or try and change the laws to fit into their medieval value system.

I can't force people to change their minds, but my hope is by challenging their backward looking views they might come to see morality comes from within, not from without.

 

[bellenuit]

Apt tweet I just read regarding some on the religious right who are comparing Kim Davis to Rosa Parks. For those who don't know her, on December 1, 1955, in Montgomery, Alabama, Rosa Parks refused to obey bus driver James F. Blake's order to give up her seat in the colored section to a white passenger, after the white section was filled. Her act of defiance became an important symbol of black liberation.

Kim Davis is not Rosa Parks. Kim Davis is the bus driver, unjustly prevented from being able to force Rosa Parks to sit in the back.

That is "unjustly prevented" from the point of view of the driver.

 

[SirRumpole]

I'm a true liberal, so I don't see that labelling food as kosher or halal is in of itself dangerous. I wont choose to purchase or boycott something because it's been prepared in a certain religious way, unless you could show a scientifically reasonable reason as to why I should.

Well, that's all fine if you are quite happy to help finance the building of Islamic schools and mosques that will teach kids that people such as yourself should be flogged, stoned or hanged.

I guess as long as it doesn't affect you personally, that's OK.

 

[Value Collector]

I'm just very surprised and confused that given your obviously sincere comments supporting both gay marriage and gay parenting, that you (and apparently Syd as well) would be supporting a process that sends funds to organisations that promote homophobia.

Religious organisations have billions of dollars invested in all sorts of businesses, I doubt it's possible to buy a single product without a religious organisation benefiting, from an ownership interest in either the product or supply chain some where.

Not to mention the tithes generated directly from wages and dividends from the companys employees and shareholders.

people have a right to be bigots, I support their right to have and practice what ever crazy stuff they want, I don't support they using these ideas to infringe on the lives of others outside their cult.

 

[SirRumpole]

people have a right to be bigots, I support their right to have and practice what ever crazy stuff they want, I don't support they using these ideas to infringe on the lives of others outside their cult.

Yes, sure, but it comes down to what YOU personally do in terms of your "conscience", if you think that such a thing exists.

So do you buy Halal food, knowing that it supports homophobic organisations ?

 

[SirRumpole]

people have a right to be bigots,

Gee, thanks

 

[Value Collector]

So do you buy Halal food, knowing that it supports homophobic organisations ?

No doubt some of the stuff I buy is halal, as I said I am completely indifferent to it, I don't look for it and a don't go out of my way to avoid it.

as I have said in the past, I own a decent investment in a company that makes a certain food product, when I heard they had gotten halal certification I called them to complain and I spoke for about 20 minutes with management, as it turns out, the cost of the certification was tiny, compared to the companies revenue it was invisible, any claims that say it would increase the cost of the product are nonsense.

I also called the certification group, and spoke to one of the certification officer there for a while, learning about what they do.

Now if you think that when you buy a roast chicken or a jar of Vegemite, you are sending a $1 an Islamic organisation, you are just wrong.

Firstly, the fee is so small that when calculated on a per unit basis, it would be well under a cent per unit, so nothing from your purchase is going there.

Secondly, before any profits can come from the fee, the certification body has to pay its running costs, office space, wages, vehicles, website cost, publications, utilities, phones and Internet etc etc this is where most of the fee goes.

Net profit from the halal certification revenue would be dwarfed by the profits religious organisations bring in from other sources, so much so it's not even worth discussing.

 

[Value Collector]

Apt tweet I just read regarding some on the religious right who are comparing Kim Davis to Rosa Parks. For those who don't know her, on December 1, 1955, in Montgomery, Alabama, Rosa Parks refused to obey bus driver James F. Blake's order to give up her seat in the colored section to a white passenger, after the white section was filled. Her act of defiance became an important symbol of black liberation.

Kim Davis is not Rosa Parks. Kim Davis is the bus driver, unjustly prevented from being able to force Rosa Parks to sit in the back.

That is "unjustly prevented" from the point of view of the driver.

I agree, she is the bus driver, she is the bus driver after the segregation of the buses had been banned, she's still there trying to make the blacks sit in the bus, after the government has outlawed that descrimination.

 

[Tink]

And what is your cult, Pol Pot, or is it Kim Jong-un, that you are standing up for?

Just to remind you --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHhX_bUubQM

Not that I care about America, these are lessons to learn for Australia.
As many others have also posted, we lose our freedom of speech and freedom of conscience, which has been shown in all countries that have taken same sex marriage.

Political prisoner Kim Davis knows all about unjust laws, and the criminalisation of Christianity. She is not the first, nor will she be the last to experience this firsthand.
There are nearly 200 examples of Christians being jailed, fined and fired from their jobs, documented.

How does one determine whether a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas: An unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law. Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.

“An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.”

Indeed, America of course is built on the notion of resistance to tyranny, and the obligation of free men to resist oppressive states.
The Founding Fathers, and others, spoke to this often:

“Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. … Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us.” -John Hancock, the first man to sign the Declaration of Independence

“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” -Thomas Jefferson

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” -Thomas Jefferson

 

[sydboy007]

And what is your cult, Pol Pot, or is it Kim Jong-un, that you are standing up

Tink

Please explain why it it's acceptable for a pope to say that the church is totalitarian. Then we can talk about the rampant fascism you subscribe to.

Then explain why the bible says slavery is ok, that beating your slave is ok, that if they die more than a day after the beating you didn't commit a crime. How many slaves do you own and why?

Then we can talk about how your martyr saint Kim is defying her oath do god and in defiance of the laws of the state. Did not peter say "Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution"

Then maybe we can have a chat about why you feel it's ok to force your immoral biblical teachings onto the community.

 

[Value Collector]

And what is your cult, Pol Pot, or is it Kim Jong-un, that you are standing up for?

I am not a member of a cult Tink, As much as you wish it were, atheist does not mean communist.

Next time you are on your knees in church, pretending to eat the flesh of your God, while your priest pretends to drink his blood, remember that is the craziness of a cult of mad men, you won't find me doing silly stuff like that.

 

[Value Collector]