Gay Marriage

[galumay]

Bigotry is driven by entrenched and intransigent views that make no provision to listen to a counter argument. You are guilty of that in your desire to promote your lifestyle choice that feeds on the destruction of established norms.

Again, just made up nonsense. You use words that you simply dont know what their meaning is. I am not 'guilty' of anything. I have no desire to promote my lifestyle choice. Melodramatic nonsense like "feeds on the destruction of established norms" just negates anything constructive you might have to say.

Insofar as the church, you are guilty of using the hackneyed strawman excuse yourself to justify one wrong making another wrong acceptable.

Again, total gibberish, what is a "hackneyed strawman excuse"? No such thing exists. I am not justifying anything by pointing out that the worst sexual assaulters of children are men of the church - not the gays that wish to see an end to discrimination on the basis of sexuality.

The opening scenes of Tropic Thunder make an obvious statement about how many in the roman (and probably other chaste orders) church apparently behave. Men fiddling with boys behind the pulpit is male on male, it is logically homosexual behaviour, without mutual consent, a depraved act that for some magical reason becomes acceptable when a boy is still a boy at 18 years or so old (we males all know the true age when we become mature and it isn't in our teens).

If you really cant see how totally illogical your statement is then i am very sorry for you. Are you really trying to argue there is no difference between raping children and consensual sex between adults?

 

[Tisme]

Again, just made up nonsense. You use words that you simply dont know what their meaning is. I am not 'guilty' of anything. I have no desire to promote my lifestyle choice. Melodramatic nonsense like "feeds on the destruction of established norms" just negates anything constructive you might have to say.



Again, total gibberish, what is a "hackneyed strawman excuse"? No such thing exists. I am not justifying anything by pointing out that the worst sexual assaulters of children are men of the church - not the gays that wish to see an end to discrimination on the basis of sexuality.



If you really cant see how totally illogical your statement is then i am very sorry for you. Are you really trying to argue there is no difference between raping children and consensual sex between adults?

More intolerance to common sense.

 

[galumay]

More intolerance to common sense.

I think you have well and truly proven the old adage that common sense is not at all common!

Luckily views like yours are in the minority and the removal of this discrimination will come, its simply a matter of time.

 

[Tisme]

Seems pretty common to me, maybe you are excluded form such perverse conversations incase it hurts your feelings?

This pretty much sums up what Americans are all to eager to espouse on the streets, in their homes and in their churches, regardless of their socialist el president:

http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/homosexuality/10-reasons-why-homosexual-marriage-is-harmful-and-must-be-opposed.html

 

[sydboy007]

Seems pretty common to me, maybe you are excluded form such perverse conversations incase it hurts your feelings?

This pretty much sums up what Americans are all to eager to espouse on the streets, in their homes and in their churches, regardless of their socialist el president:

http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/homosexuality/10-reasons-why-homosexual-marriage-is-harmful-and-must-be-opposed.html

I doubt many americans actually agree with any of the crap in your list.

1. It Is Not Marriage

marriage is a social construct. it does not exist outside of society. marriage used to be 700 wives and 300 concubines. marriaged used to be a woman disappearing in the eyes of the law and all a woman's property became her husbands.

2. It Violates Natural Law

homosexuality is natural. therefore it cannot break natural laws

3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother

no evidence that this in any way harms a child's development.

4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle

homosexuality is not a lifestyle. therefore this point is invalid

5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right

there is nothing moral about discrimination. there is nothing morally wrong about homosexuality

6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Naturally Sterile Union

no one is forcing you or anyone else to have a same sex marriage. this point is null and void

7. It Defeats the State’s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage

why should marriage be benefited to the detriment of others in society?

8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society

once again, it's morally wrong to discriminate. people are free not to accept gay marriage and they don't have to have a same sex union.

9. It Is the Cutting Edge of the Sexual Revolution

Could we argue that allowing women to own property and to have a legal self when married was the beginning of the sexual revolution? Maybe limiting marriage to just a single woman was the beginning?

10. It Offends God

I'm sorry it offends your make believe person in the sky. Still, we're a secular democracy so your religious beliefs have no right to enforce their views and ways on the rest of us.

Now religious leaders persecuting minorities probably does offend god. As would molesting children, asking for money to buy the most expensive gulf stream jet for missionary work, and hoarding wealth that could be used to aid the poor. the list goes on for what the putative righteous do that would offend their god, but that's a debate that's not relevant to same sex marriage.

 

[sptrawler]

Have a referendum at the next election, get a snapshot of what people really think.

That has to be the fairest way, let the electorate decide.

If it comes out 50/50, let the pollies decide.

If it comes out 75/25 in favour pass it, if it is 75/25 against put it to bed.

 

[galumay]

Seems pretty common to me, maybe you are excluded form such perverse conversations incase it hurts your feelings?

Huh? You really dont make any sense at all. You are simply making stuff up without any connection to my points raised about your previous posts. You seem to be a serial offender, everytime anyone points out one of your non-sequitors, red herrings, strawman arguments etc. your basic response is to ramble on in some unrelated way, that makes no sense, is unconnected and generally implies an ad hominem attack.

This pretty much sums up what Americans are all to eager to espouse on the streets, in their homes and in their churches, regardless of their socialist el president:

Whaaaat??? Support for an end to discrimination against homosexuals is massive in the US, the Supreme Court made a simple and clear ruling that this discrimination is against the constitution. If you think Obama is a 'socialist' your delusion behaviour is worsening!

You will have to come up with a better list than those 10 points to stop the removal of the discrimination in this country, I think the average australian, like the average american is intelligent enough to see through such poorly articulated and structured points of view.

I dont see one argument there that is a rational and resonable ground to discriminate against someones sexuality, in fact in all the hundreds of posts in this thread, those who are against it have failed to articulate one fair argument against gay marriage.

I guess its not really possible because it doesnt actually effect anyone except those currently discriminated against. My marriage is obviously unchanged by what other people do. All the religious arguments are irrelevant because its not a religious matter in our secular society, rules of marriage are decided by the state not religious bodies. (just as well given what the bible says about marriage!). The arguments about whether there is potentially a negative impact on some children is irrelevant because the debate is about marriage not the right to have children. (which gay couples or singles already have.)

I will be interested to see if anyone can post a valid, fair and reasonable reason that we should discriminate against people based on their sexuality when it comes to marriage. I suspect this is the key to the steadily increasing percentage of people that support gay marriage, why so many countries are changing their laws and why the issue has so much momentum - for all the 'noise' there are simply almost no rational reasons NOT to change the law.

 

[awg]

10. It Offends God

How can it offend God, if he made us all in his likeness and image?

Is God offended by male to female sodomy & oral sex, or just the same-sex variety?

 

[Tisme]

How can it offend God, if he made us all in his likeness and image?

Is God offended by male to female sodomy & oral sex, or just the same-sex variety?

Hey don't ask me, I just posted what I hear from Americans when I go over there. I'm just posting counter drivel to the drivel the pro gay marriage torch carriers are posting here. Half of them don't even recognise I'm grabbing arguments against from their own sexual clique, the ones who want to keep their identity rather than clone into hetrosexual lifestyles.

 

[galumay]

Hey don't ask me, I just posted what I hear from Americans when I go over there.

Thats is an enlightening comment!

I'm just posting counter drivel to the drivel the pro gay marriage torch carriers are posting here.

Given that i havent read one articulation of a coherent argument in favour of continuing marriage discrimination from you, i think the admission you are posting drivel is a fair reflection.

Half of them don't even recognise I'm grabbing arguments against from their own sexual clique, the ones who want to keep their identity rather than clone into hetrosexual lifestyles.

What does that even mean? Once again sexuality isnt a 'lifestyle'. I am sure there are gay people that dont want to get married, just as there are straight people that dont. I dont believe you would be able to find gay people that would argue that marriage discimination should continue for gay couples who DO want to marry.

 

[Tisme]

Once again sexuality isnt a 'lifestyle'. .

Of course it is. You think the gay fashion, the gay lisp, the arm gesticulations are congenital? If they are it just proves how gays aren't normal, doesn't it. It's just like the push for marriage, it's just another fad to accommodate the socialists/fabians who need to rage against the machine.

Challenging society to absorb homosexuals into hetronormative behaviours is pissing a fair few homosexuals off.

I like what one of them says in a blog:

"I am most annoyed by straight people’s calls for it. ................ Their gay friends must love the drama of it all"

Tony Abbot's looking good for my vote

BTW You know that twerp gayboy who is doing the Optus ads ... he's a boy that was raised literally around the corner from me in QLD and his accent is one of those wonders of human creation. His brother is gay too...howse that for proof it's genetic.

 

[Logique]

There is no point in posting the opinions of children . They can be manipulated and moulded to do the bidding of whoever has control over them.

Listen to yourself! You're not serious?

 

[SirRumpole]

Listen to yourself! You're not serious?

Of course I am .

If children could form independent opinions they would not be dependents.

 

[Logique]

I have been offline for a few days and missed all the action recently in this thread!

Interesting that you have proposed such an illogical conclusion - and you oppose gay marriage!

The reason the High Court declared the law unconstitutional is that the constitution says that where there is contradiction between federal and state law, the federal law shall take precedence. Because the Federal Law had been amended to restrict marriage to only being between a man and a woman, it then contradicted the ACT Law, hence the ruling...........Finally, once again, if you dont like gay marriage, dont marry someone from the same gender!

In so many words you have confirmed the legal point I made, but you still want to discredit my opinion?

Here's some free advice to the lesbian and gay marriage lobby. Present all of the arguments, for and against, with a detailed and convincing analysis of each. At this point the Australian public will know that lesbians and gays are being fair dinkum. But this 'we should be equal' stuff feels like a con job, superficial opportunism.

Lesbians and gays are already equal. They are not discriminated against, nobody would dare!

It's the same thing as global warming. Political power through the side door, snouts in the welfare trough, and in this case, a great big PC stick with which to beat the straights.

 

[Tink]

Changing Marriage affects us all, as it is a blanket law, it is not extending, it is redefining.

Our morality doesn't agree with the change.

Freedom of speech and freedom of conscience.

Civil unions are fine, but not Marriage.

Why should the government promote same sex marriage?

 

[sydboy007]

In so many words you have confirmed the legal point I made, but you still want to discredit my opinion?

Here's some free advice to the lesbian and gay marriage lobby. Present all of the arguments, for and against, with a detailed and convincing analysis of each. At this point the Australian public will know that lesbians and gays are being fair dinkum. But this 'we should be equal' stuff feels like a con job, superficial opportunism.

Lesbians and gays are already equal. They are not discriminated against, nobody would dare!

It's the same thing as global warming. Political power through the side door, snouts in the welfare trough, and in this case, a great big PC stick with which to beat the straights.

Being gay i can tell you I still face the odd bit of discrimination. It's certainly better than my uni days, but you still get the odd redneck or religious bigot that wishes to discriminate or shout abuse.

I have no idea how a call for treating people equally can be viewed as a con job. One has to wonder if you were writing in to stop homosexuality from being removed from the penal code.

Exactly how is asking for marriage equality a great big PC stick with which to beat the straights?

 

[SirRumpole]

Exactly how is asking for marriage equality a great big PC stick with which to beat the straights?

Would you be happy with the issue being decided by plebiscite ?

 

[Value Collector]

Would you be happy with the issue being decided by plebiscite ?

i think it would be a step In the right direction, and would hopefully bring equal rights faster, however a plebiscite only reflects the majority position.

I say only reflects the majority position because on matters of human rights, the majority opinion doesn't matter. in fact constructional laws normally exist to protect the minorities from the majority.

Eg. If A plebiscite in Nazi Germany voted to remove rights from the Jews or a plebiscite in 1800's USA voted to maintain slavery, it would not make these things moral or right.

Slavery would still be immoral and wrong regardless of what the plebiscite outcome was, and the USA government still had an obligation to free them regardless of the majority views.

 

[Value Collector]

Our morality doesn't agree with the change.

Then don't have a gay marriage.

No one is trying to force you to have a gay marriage.

Lots of things about your lifestyle probably clash with others views on morality, but you don't see them trying to legislate against you.

All the freedoms you have now will still exist, you will not lose an ounce of your rights if the marriage laws were extended to include gays.

 

[Tink]

What a load of garbage, we have seen what is happening in the countries that have taken on same sex marriage.

As I said, the activists are no different to what you complain about with ISIS, crush people that don't agree.

We lose our freedom of speech.

Vandalism and moral decay.