Gay Marriage

[Ald123]

Well of course, we are dealing with a couple of religious nut jobs here...

It is this kind of mentality that starts wars and drives fear, division and hate through society.



This is how ridiculous you look! CRAZINESS!

WE'RE BREAKING FREE OF THIS KIND OF MENTALITY, ALL OF THE LIES AND IT SCARES THE SH*T OUT OF YOU.

NO LONGER WILL WE ALLOW THIS KIND OF MISERY TO BRAIN WASH OUR CHILDREN.

LOVE, TRUTH AND COMPASSION IS THE WAY GOING FORWARD.

No longer does the world want to be enslaved by YOUR NONSENSE, YOUR LIES AND YOUR HATE.

IT IS ISIS AND CHRISTIANITY THAT ARE ONE AND THE SAME!

But no more... the people are standing up for what's real, what's right and what is true. We don't need some book that makes no sense written by the deluded thousands of years ago. ALL WE NEED IS TO LOOK IN TO OUR HEARTS. That is where the truth lies.

Take your B%$*SH*T and save it for church.

If it wasn't for the love that Jesus taught you wouldn't be where you are now. Your entire race would have been annihilated 6 times over. It's the Christian civilisation that triumphed because it finally unified people with morals and ideals.

 

[Ald123]

This would appear to be off topic on this thread, but considering some of the posts made here yesterday, it seems very very appropriate.

View attachment 63235

Happy 60th birthday to Ruby Bridges! As a six-year-old, Ruby Bridges famously became the first African American child to desegregate an all-white elementary school in the South. When the 1st grader walked to William Frantz Elementary School in New Orleans on November 14, 1960 surrounded by a team of U.S. Marshals, she was met by a vicious mob shouting and throwing objects at her.

One of the federal marshals, Charles Burks, who served on her escort team, recalls Bridges' courage in the face of such hatred: "For a little girl six years old going into a strange school with four strange deputy marshals, a place she had never been before, she showed a lot of courage. She never cried. She didn't whimper. She just marched along like a little soldier. We were all very proud of her."

Once Ruby entered the school, she discovered that it was devoid of children because they had all been removed by their parents due to her presence. The only teacher willing to have Ruby as a student was Barbara Henry, who had recently moved from Boston. Ruby was taught by herself for her first year at the school due to the white parents' refusal to have their children share a classroom with a black child.

Despite daily harassment, which required the federal marshals to continue escorting her to school for months; threats towards her family; and her father's job loss due to his family's role in school integration, Ruby persisted in attending school. The following year, when she returned for second grade, the mobs were gone and more African American students joined her at the school. The pioneering school integration effort was a success due to Ruby Bridges' inspiring courage, perseverance, and resilience.

Such a brave girl, great story .

 

[ftw129]

If it wasn't for the love that Jesus taught you wouldn't be where you are now. Your entire race would have been annihilated 6 times over. It's the Christian civilisation that triumphed because it finally unified people with morals and ideals.

Your make believe rot doesn't wash with me... move along.

 

[Value Collector]

And around we go (my bolds) Man and woman produced .....



Man and man = adoption
Woman and woman = adoption
Man and woman = LIFE

Now forget all the test tubes and technologies and a gay man copulates with a donor womb ad infinitum etc ... is this a true statement?

So what's your point then?

Why did you even mention evolution?

Not only does the fact that gay members of society can't breed together not have anything to do with gay marriage, but bringing up evolution doesn't mean anything either.

The existence of gay's does not go against evolution, gay's exist because of evolution.

 

[Ald123]

Lets see. As a society we've turned out backs on those who have children.

Ah, we have what a $250M trial to see if nannies will work in helping to provide child care for parents both working. Then another $357M to help children in disadvantaged families.

It looks like child care funding will be roughly $8.5B by 2016-17.

Can't easily find what family tax benefits costs, but it's up there with what spend on Child care.

Then we have Govt schools providing free education for any child who enrols.

I think as a society we provide quite a lot of support to parents with children.

So you feel that a woman with more than 1 child under the age of 3 is having it really tough. I'd prob agree with you on that. But if the mother and father aren't willing to accept the difficulties of having children, why is that my fault? Shouldn't parents take responsibility for the children they have? Is it fair to complain about how expensive it is to have children, how hard it is to get day care or juggle work and family life? Shouldn't a couple do their budget and determine if they can afford to support the family size they'd like. If they can't should it be acceptable for them to force the rest of society to provide them with the funds to achieve their goal?

You then go on a ramble about the debts being accumulated. How is that in any way related to gay marriage? if you want to impart on your children a mentality of take and not give, that's sad. Definitely not how I would want to raise my children. Definitely wouldn't be telling them to pay as much tax as you can, but would like them to understand that part of the difference between Australia and countries that are behind us is the fact we have a reasonable tax and transfer system that tries to help those who need it and fund the community infrastructure and institutions that help keep civil society running.

Can you please provide some examples of the hate towards "normal" families. While you're at it, could you please provide the definition of a normal family?

You know that the interest payment on 500 billion every months can build a new school or pay a years of a teachers salary. We couldn't get places in childcare in Australia except at $170 a day per child and then the government wasn't even subsidising it.

 

[Ald123]

Gay marriage has nothing to do with incest. That's a very derogatory statement. Religious families on the other hand have quite a notoriety with incest. In the bible there's some incestuous marriages.

Would you like to compare marriage today to marriage say 300 years ago? Are you supporting the same thing or supporting the destruction of the traditions from your ancestors?



Gays are not infiltrating schools to force anything onto children. Unlike religious organisations we're not forcing weekly classes onto children, or as in NSW, stopping parents from knowing that instead of religious classes their children could be in an ethics class.

I doubt we'll ever have no gender, but social constructs have changed over the millennia and will continue to change. Would you like to be a woman from 200 years ago? They were similar to children. To be seen and not heard. You seem to think that how we are as individuals and a society today is how we have always been. Look back on history and you'll see a lot of traditions like slavery, arranged marriages, dowries, are probably left in the past. I'm glad we don't have concubines as the spoils of war any more. I'm glad the idea of beating someone and then saying if they die more than a day later that's fine.

There's no giant conspiracy going on here. Gay are not some frendlier version of the illuminati or jesuits out conquering the world. We'd just like to be treated as equal members in society since we contribute on an equal basis. Is that such a scary concept? It goes along with one wo(man) one vote. Equal pay for equal work. These concepts would seem to be central to the Christian faith, but I'm starting to doubt that now.

Yes you should be treated as equal members of society, even I will fight for that with you. I just want marriage to be between man and woman and I want children's rights entrenched constitutionally and I want support to families so that the divorce rates can be minimised. If a gay couple wants a child and they adopt I want such screening and psychological evaluations so that there is no chance of abuse, and there must be grandparents aunts and uncles involved. If a lesbian wants a child she should sleep with the father and include the father,in he childs life sperm donations should be illegal. Same for gay males they must father their child. They should have blood parents living in the same street or suburb so child has mom and dad on daily basis.

 

[luutzu]

If it wasn't for the love that Jesus taught you wouldn't be where you are now. Your entire race would have been annihilated 6 times over. It's the Christian civilisation that triumphed because it finally unified people with morals and ideals.

The thing with annihilation is it only need to be done once

 

[Ald123]

The thing with annihilation is it only need to be done once

Touche

 

[ftw129]

Yes you should be treated as equal members of society, even I will fight for that with you. I just want marriage to be between man and woman

Ok this is good, this is great, now we're getting somewhere. There is nothing "wrong" with that we just want to understand why. So, without deflecting to an irrelevant side issue which has nothing to do with marriage just answer one thing. Why don't you want marriage to be between two men or two women? Look deep. You can't use the excuse about gay parenting because gay couples can already be parents. We are not talking about that. We are talking about a ceremony and a commitment that will be legally recognized, a couple of rings and it will all be over. Nothing else will change. What is it that you can't accept about two men or two woman getting married? Please give us an honest, relevant and direct answer to the question. You will not be told you are wrong. Just speak your own truth.

 

[luutzu]

So what's your point then?

Why did you even mention evolution?

Not only does the fact that gay members of society can't breed together not have anything to do with gay marriage, but bringing up evolution doesn't mean anything either.

The existence of gay's does not go against evolution, gay's exist because of evolution.

We're all god's creatures, except the gays! God didn't didn't make them.

That's what Orwell meant by Double Think? Holding two contradictory views and believe they're both absolutely true.

What else...

Save the children, don't harm them... except gay children! Let them be bullied and discriminated against.

Way too many.

 

[Ald123]

Oh Man!

This thread is going nowhere.
Then I realised something.

There is no hope for the future of normal family life in Australia. Things have gone to far.

The ISIS that is the LGBT and atheist movement in Australia has won. There will be no traditional family values nor an understanding of morality in Australia. There will be no real religion in Australia.

If Jesus had to walk the earth in Australia he wouldn't find even twelve apostles, nobody would even bother to crucify him because they wouldn't even care what he had to say. Jesus if he arrived in Australia today would have a completely failed mission. Everyone is too egoistical and selfish.

It's hopeless, it is.

I retreat from this thread tail between my legs, head for the hills, worn down to the bone. Nothing to argument here
Good luck, but it won't come.

It's definitely better not to bring children into this mess. It's a regret to have conceived them.
I think how deluded of me. Why did I do that?

 

[Ald123]

Ok this is good, this is great, now we're getting somewhere. There is nothing "wrong" with that we just want to understand why. So, without deflecting to an irrelevant side issue which has nothing to do with marriage just answer one thing. Why don't you want marriage to be between two men or two women? Look deep. You can't use the excuse about gay parenting because gay couples can already be parents. We are not talking about that. We are talking about a ceremony and a commitment that will be legally recognized, a couple of rings and it will all be over. Nothing else will change. What is it that you can't accept about two men or two woman getting married? Please give us an honest, relevant and direct answer to the question. You will not be told you are wrong. Just speak your own truth.

Let me try think again, but you are calling me back in from the hills where I have retreated. I am being asked to come back to where I don't want to be. You want me to go to the gay pride march but I want to go to the beach.

I thought I had answered this already, but you have courteously asked me to think deep. Give me some time.

 

[ftw129]

Oh Man!

This thread is going nowhere.
Then I realised something.

There is no hope for the future of normal family life in Australia. Things have gone to far.

The ISIS that is the LGBT and atheist movement in Australia has won. There will be no traditional family values nor an understanding of morality in Australia. There will be no real religion in Australia.

If Jesus had to walk the earth in Australia he wouldn't find even twelve apostles, nobody would even bother to crucify him because they wouldn't even care what he had to say. Jesus if he arrived in Australia today would have a completely failed mission. Everyone is too egoistical and selfish.

It's hopeless, it is.

I retreat from this thread tail between my legs, head for the hills, worn down to the bone. Nothing to argument here
Good luck, but it won't come.

It's definitely better not to bring children into this mess. It's a regret to have conceived them.
I think how deluded of me. Why did I do that?

ALD just before you go let me just say one thing to you if I may and I'm not being a smart A#@ or trying to convince you of anything but just hear me out for a minute...

You have your Christian beliefs. Fine not everyone shares those beliefs. All the religions think theirs is the right way but here is the fact. Marriage pre-dates religion and served a different purpose to what the religious movement later turned it into. Here check it out http://www.livescience.com/37777-history-of-marriage.html

It was man that makes marriage whatever he wants throughout history in order to suit the cultural beliefs at the time. Times are changing again. Man made it what it was then, but it's time to adjust it to suit the times now. Logically, from a person that has no belief in your god (mine is a different story but no more valid then yours and this isn't the right thread for that conversation) we see now that yet again the time has come to adjust the meaning of marriage to suit the current times and the evolution of the human race. We (people) decide what marriage is to suit our needs. Yes marriage was seen to be between a man and a woman, imposed only by human beings and now human beings are deciding that it can be between any two loving adults. What is so wrong about that? Don't you find that to be a beautiful thing? Well maybe that's asking too much and I understand, but there is no other rational way forward. It is actually irrational to not have it this way.

That's how an innocent child sees it. That's how compassion and love see it. The alternative goes against the real human laws of love, truth and compassion. One's that have been buried under too much momentum from the past. BUT, we are evolving and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Love is the Light at the end of the tunnel and is what will set us all free.

Let's just get on with the business of being Who We Really Are. Innocent, loving and compassionate at heart.


#Lovewins

 

[sydboy007]

Marketing 101 ...... indoctrinate the children of the next generation

http://www.christianpost.com/news/p...ay-marriage-book-to-third-grade-class-140743/

A - not relevant to the thread topic of gay marriage

B - it's only indoctrination if it doesn't agree with your view and agenda

 

[ftw129]

I too am bowing out of this conversation now. I realise this is a forum and the conversation will continue as the pages go on but I just do not have the stomach to look at another red herring. Literally.

To anyone who is fearful of Gay Marriage, Gay Parenting or some sort of Gay Agenda (etc etc etc)... I assure you one thing and I know that if you look deep enough into your hearts, you can see it too. Gay people are not here to destroy the World or corrupt society...

But we will try to make it FABULOUS

Peace xx

#Lovewins

 

[Value Collector]

It's the Christian civilisation that triumphed because it finally unified people with morals and ideals.

Unified people with threats of death if they didn't do as they were told maybe.

As I said before, morality doesn't come from religion, otherwise your bible wouldn't be filled with so much gross immorality, the reason you are not condoning slavery like Jesus did or stoning adulterers and unbelievers is because you have a moral system that's independent of your faith, that allows you to filter out the bad biblical stuff, the more religious you are and the less secular morals you have, the closer you are to Isis, taking the texts seriously and killing people.

 

[Value Collector]

Ok this is good, this is great, now we're getting somewhere. There is nothing "wrong" with that we just want to understand why. So, without deflecting to an irrelevant side issue which has nothing to do with marriage just answer one thing. Why don't you want marriage to be between two men or two women? Look deep. You can't use the excuse about gay parenting because gay couples can already be parents. We are not talking about that. We are talking about a ceremony and a commitment that will be legally recognized, a couple of rings and it will all be over. Nothing else will change. What is it that you can't accept about two men or two woman getting married? Please give us an honest, relevant and direct answer to the question. You will not be told you are wrong. Just speak your own truth.

Yes, perfect. That's exactly what I have been trying to get out of them a straight answer.

If Jesus had to walk the earth in Australia he wouldn't find even twelve apostles, nobody would even bother to crucify him because they wouldn't even care what he had to say. Jesus if he arrived in Australia today would have a completely failed mission. Everyone is too egoistical and selfish.

Wait hang on, isn't that a good thing that we wouldn't crucify him?

Are you saying that you wish we Australians were more in favour of public lynchings?

That seems pretty crazy to me. You can call me an Immoral Athiest if you like, but the fact that I would actually do my best to stop some one being lynched makes me a better person than some one like you that thinks it's a great thing that should be let happen.

Anyway, I am not convinced the poor delusional man claiming he was a god wouldn't be lynched by some of your religious cousins, we have Muslims that lived in Sydney fly half way round the world to cut people's heads off, I think they would have no problem killing an eccentric rabbi with delusions of godliness such as Jesus was (if he existed at all)

I thought I had answered this already,

No, none of you have, you all just launch into red herrings about kids and logical fallacies and slippery slope arguments.

 

[sydboy007]

You know that the interest payment on 500 billion every months can build a new school or pay a years of a teachers salary. We couldn't get places in childcare in Australia except at $170 a day per child and then the government wasn't even subsidising it.

Has no relevance to the topic of same sex marriage

 

[Tisme]

Oh Man!

This thread is going nowhere.
Then I realised something.

There is no hope for the future of normal family life in Australia. Things have gone to far.

That's the old normal, make way for the new normal .... I'm glad I never considered marriage as anything but something to give my kids purpose of belonging. I didn't get married for a long time because I couldn't love my "partner" any more and vice versa, it really only was because we decided to form a family.

I think I might have contributed to the moral decay way back in time, by living in sin for about five years, using contraception, really liking sex (still do), drinking, partying and swearing. It's a wonder there wasn't a catholic priest sent around to exorcise the demons.

I do feel the marriage sanctity that society once strived for, in the face of people like me, men who miss treated their wives, couples who treated marriage as a contract rather than a union, children who were deprived of love and means, etc. is pretty much over. The eagerness that people have to hand over a custom merely shows how invaluable it is to the community, regardless of the significance it has for past generations and a vast number of extant couples.

 

[Tink]

VC, as I said, this is a very divided issue, and both have their reasons for agreeing or disagreeing.

I included a video that answers all your questions, and how it harms society.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...t=3680&page=60&p=873984&viewfull=1#post873984
It is not extending, it is REDEFINING.

Bringing in same sex marriage does not better society, it makes it worse, and moves children down to second class citizens.

What does same sex marriage encourage?
How does it better society?

I also pointed out the gays that openly said they did not agree with changing marriage, and were hijacked by the gay mafia, and their businesses boycott.
That is not a free society, when they tell you how you have to be thinking.

Syd, I mentioned incestuous backdrop because there is no social order or morality, it just becomes a mess when you dismantle the most important institution for a civilised society.
Fathers and mothers are deemed not important, and there has been an attack on the fathers of late.
Keeping marriage as it is, makes it equal for society.

Rather than talking about rights, we need to talk about responsibilities and accountabilities.