Gay Marriage

[moXJO]

Without religion morality doesn't exist and makes no sense. Morality is then just the will of the majority. This is why the atheists love it. If the majority decide that it's ok to kill Jewish people again then it's moral. If another majority decided that sex with children is ok then it becomes moral. Stop being so ignorant.
Morality exists because of the Judeo Christian tradition and earlier RELIGIOUS WISDOM BEFORE THAT.

Lets face it old religion was to keep law and order through the masses via fear. A way to bend and shape people to what was needed at the time.
The only things religion brought us was wars, death, fear, racisim, hatred, and denial.
Considering apparent men of God or "In Gods name" committed acts against Jews and raped children. While the faithful stood by and watched it happen or excused it away. I would say that sense of religious morality is warped.
I don't know if the argument "Because God said so" is a legit one to make as it is used to campaign evil actions in his name. So no a good deal of evil actions were carried out because of Judeo Christian tradition.


I am happy enough for churches and their flock to reject gay marriage. And they should have a right to do so and protected from the legalities.

But religion does not hold power like it use to over the masses, nor should it.

 

[Joe Blow]

I'd just like to remind everyone to please keep the discussion civil and to avoid insults, personal attacks and labels.

While I understand that this topic, like a lot of others, can stir people's emotions, once a discussion degenerates into mud slinging it rarely recovers.

Attack the argument, not the person.

 

[sydboy007]

Irreplaceable damage to the structure of family.

Look already today, people in countries like Australia really think twice about children.
It is so hard to raise children, there are so many attacks on the family, there is no help only hindrance,
it is so expensive. Up until age three raising a child for a women is so hard especially if she has more than one young child. There are absolutely NO affordable facilities. The benefits you get are not worth taking and the centre link forms are nearly a 100 pages long with so much work to fill out it takes weeks to get the benefits.
Then some idiot in power tells women that they are dole bludgers.

The people who need support now are children. Gay rights to marriage are not even important because they have them all in Australia already. They suffer no discrimination whatsoever as defactos.


Why should my children grow up having to pay the debts of this generation? Why should they later pay the pensions of this generation when they give them NO support as children now? I will teach my children how set themselves up to pay no tax just as this current baby boomer generation has done. I will make sure that my kids don't get burdened with these selfish people who live today.

I am sick of being attacked by people telling me "well you shouldn't have had kids", one day I will tell them, sorry my kids are not their to support you.

I am sick of the hate towards normal families trying to raise normal children where everybodies rights except the children's is considered.

Lets see. As a society we've turned out backs on those who have children.

Ah, we have what a $250M trial to see if nannies will work in helping to provide child care for parents both working. Then another $357M to help children in disadvantaged families.

It looks like child care funding will be roughly $8.5B by 2016-17.

Can't easily find what family tax benefits costs, but it's up there with what spend on Child care.

Then we have Govt schools providing free education for any child who enrols.

I think as a society we provide quite a lot of support to parents with children.

So you feel that a woman with more than 1 child under the age of 3 is having it really tough. I'd prob agree with you on that. But if the mother and father aren't willing to accept the difficulties of having children, why is that my fault? Shouldn't parents take responsibility for the children they have? Is it fair to complain about how expensive it is to have children, how hard it is to get day care or juggle work and family life? Shouldn't a couple do their budget and determine if they can afford to support the family size they'd like. If they can't should it be acceptable for them to force the rest of society to provide them with the funds to achieve their goal?

You then go on a ramble about the debts being accumulated. How is that in any way related to gay marriage? if you want to impart on your children a mentality of take and not give, that's sad. Definitely not how I would want to raise my children. Definitely wouldn't be telling them to pay as much tax as you can, but would like them to understand that part of the difference between Australia and countries that are behind us is the fact we have a reasonable tax and transfer system that tries to help those who need it and fund the community infrastructure and institutions that help keep civil society running.

Can you please provide some examples of the hate towards "normal" families. While you're at it, could you please provide the definition of a normal family?

 

[sydboy007]

Well said, Ald, tradition, hand me downs, social order, are all things that are important for the next generation.
Trying to destroy centuries of tradition and our inheritance for our children.

Gay Marriage brings in an incestuous backdrop.

Submit to their ideology, accept it, or be fined, this is totalitarian.
Trying to brainwash the next generation to run by their rules with no morals and no gender is wrong.
We are allowed to stand up to this for now while our country doesn't have gay marriage.

As I said, I am all for Civil Unions, but don't change Marriage.

Gay marriage has nothing to do with incest. That's a very derogatory statement. Religious families on the other hand have quite a notoriety with incest. In the bible there's some incestuous marriages.

Would you like to compare marriage today to marriage say 300 years ago? Are you supporting the same thing or supporting the destruction of the traditions from your ancestors?

Infiltrating all the schools that this is the way they have to think.
No gender, social constructs where they can be what they want to be, if they are in the wrong skin, change it, wrong sex, change it.

As I said, same sex, pornography, prostitution all go hand in hand
Shoving this garbage in childrens faces is wrong.

Yes, marriage is private, but the gays are making it public, where we all need to succumb to their rules.

Gays are not infiltrating schools to force anything onto children. Unlike religious organisations we're not forcing weekly classes onto children, or as in NSW, stopping parents from knowing that instead of religious classes their children could be in an ethics class.

I doubt we'll ever have no gender, but social constructs have changed over the millennia and will continue to change. Would you like to be a woman from 200 years ago? They were similar to children. To be seen and not heard. You seem to think that how we are as individuals and a society today is how we have always been. Look back on history and you'll see a lot of traditions like slavery, arranged marriages, dowries, are probably left in the past. I'm glad we don't have concubines as the spoils of war any more. I'm glad the idea of beating someone and then saying if they die more than a day later that's fine.

There's no giant conspiracy going on here. Gay are not some frendlier version of the illuminati or jesuits out conquering the world. We'd just like to be treated as equal members in society since we contribute on an equal basis. Is that such a scary concept? It goes along with one wo(man) one vote. Equal pay for equal work. These concepts would seem to be central to the Christian faith, but I'm starting to doubt that now.

 

[sydboy007]

Of course not content to groom individuals, they are now grooming the entire population. I'm really worried about compulsory homosexuality ........

Seriously. There's been some ridiculous statements in this thread, but this would take the number 1 spot.

How is gay marriage forcing anyone to be homosexual?

So all those religious leaders that were grooming mainly young boys. How do you explain that? Catholic priests had what 1/5 of the global population just their for the grooming. Plenty of them in poor countries where their priestly powers were so highly regarded they could literally get away with murder.

 

[sydboy007]

Without religion morality doesn't exist and makes no sense. Morality is then just the will of the majority. This is why the atheists love it. If the majority decide that it's ok to kill Jewish people again then it's moral. If another majority decided that sex with children is ok then it becomes moral. Stop being so ignorant.
Morality exists because of the Judeo Christian tradition and earlier RELIGIOUS WISDOM BEFORE THAT.

All morality comes from religion eh. The morality of your religion condones:

• Genocide of populations.
• Concubine sex slaves.
• Slavery.
• Marrying you brothers wife and getting her pregnant if he died childless

I'm evolved enough emotionally to understand the concept f I wouldn't want to be a slave for x reasons. Other people would likely not want to be a slave for the same reasons. It's quite likely slavery is not good. I don't need some external source telling me right from wrong.

I think I'm doing a better job of judging the right path than a lot of religious people. Certainly I know that reporting the crime of child sexual offences is the right thing to do and that covering it up and moving the perpetrator from church to church is the wrong thing to do. Definitely not rocket science, but for some reason it took decades / centuries for the Catholics to come to this understanding

 

[Value Collector]

VC, if you can't think outside the square, and your thinking doesn't go very deep, that is your problem.
I have freedom of speech until now, and I am allowed to use it, so stop trying to silence me, it won't work.

One thing with women, we like to talk and give our opinion, whether you want to hear it or not.

Well said, Ald, tradition, hand me downs, social order, are all things that are important for the next generation.
Trying to destroy centuries of tradition and our inheritance for our children.

Gay Marriage brings in an incestuous backdrop.

Submit to their ideology, accept it, or be fined, this is totalitarian.
Trying to brainwash the next generation to run by their rules with no morals and no gender is wrong.
We are allowed to stand up to this for now while our country doesn't have gay marriage.

As I said, I am all for Civil Unions, but don't change Marriage.

Infiltrating all the schools that this is the way they have to think.
No gender, social constructs where they can be what they want to be, if they are in the wrong skin, change it, wrong sex, change it.

As I said, same sex, pornography, prostitution all go hand in hand
Shoving this garbage in childrens faces is wrong.

Yes, marriage is private, but the gays are making it public, where we all need to succumb to their rules.

I am not trying to silence you, I am trying to get you to explain your position by answering the questions I asked to clarify your position.

I know women like to talk, and I support your right to talk, it's the bible that says women should be quite, not me.

I want to know what you meant when you said Gay marriage infringes on your religious rights, can you give me an example?

The vast majority of pornography is straight. Why do you think same sex marriage would increase pornography.

 

[sydboy007]

The AUDACITY. Hopefully not coming to a cinema near you

Grab your Bible, brimstone and buttered popcorn! Ray Comfort, a close personal pal of confirmed Creationist wackadoodle Kirk Cameron, is about to release a feature-length film called Audacity, which plumbs the depths of two hot-button issues: gay marriage and God’s unstoppered wrath.

Comfort (who believes bananas are incontrovertible proof of God’s existence because they fit in your hand) executive produced this tacky tale of a bike messenger/aspiring comedian (Traver Owens) who must defend his stubborn views on religion and homosexuality in the face of militant, in-yo-face gays and gay supporters. Judging by the trailer, he’s harangued by an uppity young woman with a gay sister (the audacity!), two lesbians who brightly chirp about their marriage license in the tight confines of an elevator (the audacity!), and then, just to be that way, a scary guy with a gun (the audacity!)

[video=youtube_share;xuq-k_YvEyA]http://youtu.be/xuq-k_YvEyA[/video]

 

[sydboy007]

but there's hope. Quite amazing to se the support of a town behind a gay couple finally getting married after being together for 16 years. Take that heterosexual divorce.

[video]http://player.vimeo.com/video/130593514[/video]

 

[luutzu]

Once again I reiterate to what you have typed. You suggested my partner was uneducated to the prolonging of the species in relation to the lions quote. She made it very clear that you NEED a Mummy & a Daddy for any kind of life to begin. Jack and Jill went up the hill kinda simplistic stuff. But she is uneducated ....

For the record, I didn't say anything about your wife.

But I don't think anyone's trying to insult or put her down either. We're all ignorant about something, wrong about some thing... your wife just happen to be wrong homosexual and lions and stuff.

 

[trainspotter]

The point you are missing Trainspotter is the veracity of this comment from your partner.

As it turns out you failed to understand what my uneducated partner was thrusting about " and expect the species to survive" I believe they call it procreation. You will figure it out eventually.

Homosexuality in humans has been observed for as long as humans have been observed and still the species has survived. Of course, if everyone were homosexual and didn't have sexual intercourse with the opposite sex, then our species would not survive. But so what? If everyone were celibate priests or nuns, we would have the same situation. There is no need for everyone to procreate for our species to survive. In fact, as some comments on the carbon emissions threads indicate, our species may be more at risk from excessive procreation in the immediate term than from global warming or other potential natural disasters.

If the issue you and your partner is concerned about is survival of our species, then please explain how this is put at risk by allowing gays to marry? We are talking about a civil ceremony that has significance to those concerned, but has zero impact on the ability of our species to survive.

What issue are you talking about? You as well as VC have missed the point. Whoopeee they have a ceremony and now announce you gay and gayer. WHO CARES !!!

It is the LEGAL ramifications that NEEDS to be addressed but I am sick and tired of explaining this over and over to the bleeding hearts and artists who care more for the minority and a "ceremony" rather than understanding what this actually means.

 

[trainspotter]

For the record, I didn't say anything about your wife.

But I don't think anyone's trying to insult or put her down either. We're all ignorant about something, wrong about some thing... your wife just happen to be wrong homosexual and lions and stuff.

You are still not getting it are you. X + y = LIFE ... GAY + GAY = 0 ... and all this from an uneducated "house frau"

 

[Value Collector]

Irreplaceable damage to the structure of family.

.

How is allowing gays, who are already in relationships and living together, going to damage the structure of your family?

Look already today, people in countries like Australia really think twice about children.
It is so hard to raise children, there are so many attacks on the family, there is no help only hindrance,
it is so expensive. Up until age three raising a child for a women is so hard especially if she has more than one young child. There are absolutely NO affordable facilities. The benefits you get are not worth taking and the centre link forms are nearly a 100 pages long with so much work to fill out it takes weeks to get the benefits.
Then some idiot in power tells women that they are dole bludgers.

What does any of that have to do with Gay marriage?

The people who need support now are children. Gay rights to marriage are not even important because they have them all in Australia already. They suffer no discrimination whatsoever as defactos.

As I said, black aren't discriminated against, they can already ride the bus, they just have to sit at the back.

Why should my children grow up having to pay the debts of this generation? Why should they later pay the pensions of this generation when they give them NO support as children now? I will teach my children how set themselves up to pay no tax just as this current baby boomer generation has done. I will make sure that my kids don't get burdened with these selfish people who live today.

Again, nice rant. But whats it got to do with gay marriage?

I am sick of being attacked by people telling me "well you shouldn't have had kids", one day I will tell them, sorry my kids are not their to support you.

Whats this got to do with gay marriage?

I am sick of the hate towards normal families trying to raise normal children where everybodies rights except the children's is considered

Can you give me an example of this hate.

I can't see how allowing a gay couple to get married on the other side of town has anything to do with attacking normal families.

 

[luutzu]

You are wrong about that.

When I was in Paris about 22 years ago I saw an extremely rich gay guy in his 50,s walking through the the gay neighbourhood with a 17 year old boy hand in hand both were by now gay. By a coincidence I met the grandmother of the boy. I discovered that the boy was just a troubled teen who never had a father and never identified himself as gay, but who was plied with gifts and seduced. Eventually the boy acquired a taste for homosexual sex and in void of indifference where nobody told him otherwise. A couple years later the boy fell deeply in love with a women, by that time his past had turned him into a male prostitue for rich gays. She found out, too late, she got aids and died quickly. She left a child behind who did not get aids. He lived longer but eventually also died. The child was adopted by gay friends of the young man and sadly was abused. The child committed suicide. The child had also developed a taste for gay life due to the abuseand as a 14 year old had a moral breakdown about it.

First, no one who support gay marriage supports child abuse or condone pedophilia or pedophile.

Second, homosexuality is love and attraction between people of the same sex.

So what you've seen there may very well be homosexual who are also pedophiles, who abuses children. No one support or think that that is right.

And as have been said before by others here, if children of homosexual marriages/family were abused, then the law have all the right to step in and punish the abusive parent, save the children - as they would in any situation, gay or straight.

 

[Value Collector]

What issue are you talking about? You as well as VC have missed the point. Whoopeee they have a ceremony and now announce you gay and gayer. WHO CARES !!!

It is the LEGAL ramifications that NEEDS to be addressed but I am sick and tired of explaining this over and over to the bleeding hearts and artists who care more for the minority and a "ceremony" rather than understanding what this actually means.

I don't care about the cereomony, people can have what ever ceremony they want, expensive / cheap, religious/star wars themed.

I just want gay marriages to be recognised in exactly the same way a straight one is, the gay marriages already exist, its just a matter of the government recognising them.

 

[SirRumpole]

And as have been said before by others here, if children of homosexual marriages/family were abused, then the law have all the right to step in and punish the abusive parent, save the children - as they would in any situation, gay or straight.

The fact is of course that lot of children suffer setbacks to their upbringing, marriages break up, parents die etc, but just as governments or society in general don't encourage or condone these events I see no reason why governments or society should encourage children to be brought up without a mother or father by in any way endorsing gay parenting as an equal substitute for a loving heterosexual family upbringing.

We should be promoting the "gold standard", not making excuses for anything less.

 

[Value Collector]

It is my religious right to teach my children that marriage is only between a man and a woman. I do this because it is a COMMAND of Christ. It is a trampling of my rights when the government stands in opposition to this teaching by telling the population that gayrriage is a good by making it a right and putting me in prison if I publicly declare to my children that what they are taught at school is wrong.

No one is taking away your right to teach your children your religion.

It's your right to believe any kooky religious mythology you want. It is not you right to try and press your Christian mythology onto the rest of society though. Legalising Gay Marriage, is not infringing on your religious rights, you can continue sitting there believing what ever you like, no one is going to force you to have a gay marriage, we are just giving you and your children the choice.

Your rights are actually being increased, because no rights are being taken away, but you are getting an extra right.

I am sick of the agenda that religion is irrelevant, nobody has the right to tell me that or tell that to my children.

Religion in general is irrelevant to a large section of the population "Non religious" is one of the because groups.

If you are taking about you brand of religion, then that is even more irrelevant, Because your brand is not just irrelevant to the non religious, but also irrelevant to all the other brands.

I am therefore sick and tired of the atheist and lgbt terrorists shoving their agenda down the throats of society just like ISIS does

Me saying you have no right to beat me with your religious stick, is not the same as me saying you don't have a right to a stick.

You have your religion, you build churches, you can have your faith schools. but don't try to influence the government policy with your silly religious rules, if you want to influence government do it with sound non religious arguments.

 

[moXJO]

You are still not getting it are you. X + y = LIFE ... GAY + GAY = 0 ... and all this from an uneducated "house frau"

Sorry TS we have been rendered obsolete

Fertility specialists have found a way for women to have babies without men

 

[Value Collector]

Without religion morality doesn't exist and makes no sense. .

Morality predates your religion, and it makes perfect sense.

Morality develops over time, we are more moral now than they were in biblical times.

Morality can be argued with no religious arguments, and the religious arguments generally bog society down and slow the progress of moral development.

Morality is then just the will of the majority. This is why the atheists love it. If the majority decide that it's ok to kill Jewish people again then it's moral.

If we wanted to kill, we just have to quote the religious texts. plenty of biblical laws that allow for killing.

If another majority decided that sex with children is ok then it becomes moral. Stop being so ignorant.
Morality exists because of the Judeo Christian tradition and earlier RELIGIOUS WISDOM BEFORE THAT

Morality has nothing to do with majority rule, any more that health does.

The judeo Christian tradition includes slavery, death for blasphemy, death for working on the Sabbath etc.

The fact that you no longer think these things are moral teachings so you ignore them, shows you are already operating using a secular moral structure that allows you to filter your religious teachings.

 

[sydboy007]

The fact is of course that lot of children suffer setbacks to their upbringing, marriages break up, parents die etc, but just as governments or society in general don't encourage or condone these events I see no reason why governments or society should encourage children to be brought up without a mother or father by in any way endorsing gay parenting as an equal substitute for a loving heterosexual family upbringing.

We should be promoting the "gold standard", not making excuses for anything less.

Promoting a particular family type. I don't know, but I have this bad feeling. Something about how that hasn't worked out to well in our recent past

Not sure I really like the idea of Govt moulding us to fit into a certain family structure. Harks of 1984.