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Gann, honestly, is it a good basis for trading?

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Splint

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Hi everyone,

many years ago I did a course about Gann run by a Melbourne based trader and forcaster. I found that the course wasn't particularly good. I've read Truth of the Stock Tape And Wall Street Stock Selector written by W.D. Gann and I found it to be vauge and lacking substance, particularly in respect to actual Gann methodolgy.

As we all know, Ganns record of forcasting success and claimed wealth accrued from stock and commodity trading has had ongoing doubts cast over it, even Ganns own son has claimed he was fraudulent.

Gann has a reputation as an auther to be vauge and to speak in riddles, and some claim that he never revealed his true methods. There are many individuals and groups running courses in Gann trading, much of which would be based on their own interpretations of what Gann taught.

What I'd like to know is how practicle and usable is the Gann methodology for trading. Is it that some people who use Gann see it through rose coloured glasses and make it out to be better than it really is? Is it consistant enough to be at the core of a trading methodology or is it something which should be used as a secondry indicator to traditional technical analysis? How does it stack up against traditional tech trading methods like support and resistance, breakouts, patterns, trends, price/volume activity and technical indicators?

I know that Larry Williams has some serious issues with Gann techniques and dispises people selling Gann courses. Of course there are vested interests from both sides on that issue, but interesting none the less.

Will it really help my trading? Is it really worth learning and if so,what's the best way to go about learning it?

Thanks
Splint
 
Splint said:
methods like support and resistance, patterns, trends, price/volume activity
Click to expand...

Interesting post. Should create some discussion.

I haven't looked at Gann enough to comment with real credibility, because he lost my interest shortly after reading due to my seriously questioning his (and his methods) credibility.

I would say the above mentioned information by yourself of which I have highlighted, is by far the most useful information to trading and is basically, all I use.

 

Just quoting Gann as his name was is a bit ambiguous. What does it mean?
Some of Gann's thinking was good. I haven't studied Gann's techniques but have heard others talk about him.

Perhaps specific topics need to be quoted for discussion.
 
It's Snake Pliskin said:
Just quoting Gann as his name was is a bit ambiguous. What does it mean?
Click to expand...

For the benifit of the thread I've borrowed some info about Gann from an archived page from Wikipeadia.



{{npov}} '''William Delbert Gann''' (June_6, 1878 – June, 1955), usually just called W. D. Gann, is famous as one of the most successful stock and commodity traders in history. Although he currently garners little name-recognition with the general public, he became a legend amongst traders. He was famous not only for his trading abilities, but also for his financial market forecasts; the accuracy of these forecasts is the subject of substantial debate, and Gann's son later alleged that many of Gann's claims were fraudulent. ==History== Gann was born in Lufkin, Texas on June 6, 1878. He started trading in stocks and commodities in 1902, and in 1908 he moved to New York City and opened his own brokerage firm. His early trading career was far from successful and he went bust more than once. This impelled him to look deeply into the markets; a unique analyst, his investigations led him to reach some startling conclusions, although controversy surrounds the claims of his trading successes and whether he did indeed reveal his real methods or whether he took his secrets to the grave. Gann claimed to have made over 50 million dollars in profits from his market forecasting and trading. After five decades of success with his forecasting and trading, WD Gann moved to Florida where he continued writing, publishing, teaching, and studying the markets up until his death in June, 1955. He claimed to base his market trading and forecasting methods on Time, as well as on Price, and said repeatedly that "time is the most important" when it comes to analysing and forecasting market movements. He claimed to be able to determine not only ''what'' the turning-point's price would be, but also ''when'' it would occur. The accuracy of Mr. Gann's forecasts was remarkable: in October 1909, with a newspaper reporter tagging along as a witness, he made 286 trades over a period of 25 market days; these trades were both long and short the market. Of these 286 trades, 264 were profitable. In 1933, during the depths of the Great_Depression, he made 479 trades; 422 were winners, 57 were losers. His return on capital was reported to be an astounding 4,000% in that year alone.{{fact}} Mr. Gann was not only able to consistently rack up amazingly high percentages of winning trades, he also issued forecasts for a number of markets up to one year in advance. In late 1928, he even predicted the great stock market crash for the fall of October 1929, saying that it would be the start of the biggest panic in history.{{fact}} In 1929 he also published the novel "Tunel Thru The Air, or Looking Back from 1940", which contains many descriptions of future events. Many of those events have been interpreted as references to later events, including World_War_II, and in particular the attack on the United States by Japan at Pearl_Harbor. ==Methods of W D Gann== Gann published many books about trading and sold many training courses. To say that the methods he published were unorthodox would be a significant understatement. As a young man, Gann showed a flair for mathematics and an aggressively inquisitive intellect, being prepared to study subjects that would be considered "outside the box" in comparsion to established thought on economics, finance and markets.{{fact}} Gann published work on Numerology and Astrology; he was also a Freemason, Shriner, Christian and devoted student of the Bible. In addition to his pursuit of what are regarded from a conventional stance as Fringe_beliefs, he famously said that he found everything he needed in the Bible. He spent time studying in London, Egypt and India where he is said to have picked up much of the occult knowledge that he claimed to use. He also spent nine months studying at the Astor_Museumin New_York_City and the British_Museum in London. He was even observed on many occasions in the trading pits to carry papers, devices and charts that related to these belief systems, for example the Square_of_Nine and the Mason's Set-square and Divider.{{fact}} However, he believed that the truth could only be learnt through perserverance, hard work, study and self-discipline, which he exhibited in his tee-totalism and modest life-style. It is alleged that he therefore never revealed his actual methods or techniques, believing that only the worthy should know them and should find them through their own efforts. The idea that he used the techniques that he published has received scorn from some quarters. What is undeniable, however, is that he encoded some kind of messages in his novel ''Tunnel Through The Air or Looking Back from 1940'' and it could thus be implied that he did intend for these messages to be discovered one day.{{fact}} Whether or not he revealed his real techniques and whether or not ''Tunnel Thru The Air'' did contain them in concealed form, those on the public record can be summarised as follows: * Time and Price are "The Same" - when they "square out", a major change of trend is due * Time is the most important factor: do day/week counts of 30, 45, 60, 90, 180. * Resistence levels in both time and price are 25, 33, 50, 66, 75 percent of the previous range. They can be extended (extrapolated) to 100, 150 & 200 percent. * Trend lines, which Gann can claim to have invented the use of.{{fact}} ==Controversy== W D Gann's only son John Gann is alleged to have said that Gann never did actually make the sum that was claimed and actually lived off the proceeds of the books and courses that he sold. It is on the record, however, that John Gann worked with his father but that they went separate ways, either because they did not agree on how to analyse the markets or because Gann, Jr. was unable to apply his father's astrological ideas, or simply did not approve of them. Gann, Jr. went on to become a successful broker and analyst and trader in his own right, so whatever the truth of their falling-out, the possibility of a simple father-and-son rivalry should not be ignored. Not only this, but John Gann seemed to change his tune:{{fact}} :"Foster indicated to us that Gann's son was not happy about his father. The elder Gann apparently was a task master and from other sources, a womanizer too. Gann's son told Foster, somewhat to this effect, 'Everything you need to know to make money in the markets are found in my father's books and writing.' Then there was a click. We now know that Gann's son died several years ago and his remote family is scattered throughout the country. What we also know was that Gann's son was a member of the New York Stock Exchange, trading for his own account.


Continued next post........
 
Now, concerning William D's estate. From sources I know to be relatively accurate, his Florida estate records showed an estate back at the time of his death in 1955 to be worth about $250,000. This was a nice piece of change back then, probably equivalent to maybe $4-$5 million today." The relatively modest fortune he left behind is difficult to correlate to his reputation as a trader, but then again he may have disposed of or hidden his real fortune. This controversy has only heightened the myth and legend of Gann, leading several generations to pour over his books, courses and ephemera in search of clues as which techniques he actually employed. His prophetic novel ''Tunnel Thru The Air'' certainly contains many encoded messages, for Gann went on record to say as much, but whether even these messages revealed his true methods will probably never be known. A whole industry has sprung up, with many claiming to have "deciphered" or "figured out" Gann and a second layer of controversy now surrounds these claims. As it stands in 2006, it seems that the legend of Gann aids the sale of many books and courses but, if anyone has indeed got to the bottom of the Gann mystery and discovered his key to near-limitless riches, cynics say that they would be unlikely to sell their wares in public. Certainly Gann's charts look complex and alluring, but the student should remember that visual allure is quite independent from practical worth.{{fact}} ==Later Life== Later in Gann's career, he seemed to be less interested in writing about and publicising his methods and focused instead on what he believed to be the philosophical ramifications of his methods. His book ''Magic Word'' is entirely about the Biblical name Jehovah and lays out his belief in fundamental Christian values, such as hard work, Discipline, Love and Honour. His pamphlet ''Face Facts America'' focused on real world issues that USA was facing in the mid-20th Century. Whatever the philanthropic intent of these works, he would most probably be given the disparaging label "Bible basher" in the present era. If, however, he truly had stumbled on the secret key to the markets in his wide-ranging study, then this label would be unfair. Since Gann perhaps took his real secrets with him to the grave, we may never know for sure what he saw in the Bible and what he used in the markets.{{fact}} ==Influences on W D Gann== The early 20th century was a time of fertile interest in the Occult arts, quite aside from Gann's interest in the field. He can be said to be one of the founding fathers of Financial_astrology and sold a great number of esoteric texts by authors of the time and from earlier ages, alongside his own market forecast letters. Of particular influence on Gann were the works of Sepharial, an English Astrologer. In a time where many esoteric authors went by a single name, other works he cited were by authors such as Raphael, Alvidas, Dr_George_W_Carey, Alan_Leo, Maurice_Wemyss and George_Bayer. Many of these works are obscure and are often out-of-print; reprints where available can be extraordinarily expensive due to demand from collectors and the promise they are thought to hold.{{fact}} ==Books by W D Gann== * ''Tunnel Thru The Air, or looking back from 1940'' * ''Truth of The Stock Tape'' * ''Wall Street Stock Selector'' * ''How to Make Profts Trading in Commodities'' * ''45 Years in Wall Street'' * ''Magic Word'' * ''How to Make Profits Trading In Puts And Calls'' (an early text on trading options) * ''Face Facts America'' ==Gann Quotes== * "The Morning Telegraph" Sunday Dec 17, 1922 article by Arthur Angy:
"W.D. Gann has scored another astounding hit in his 1922 stock forecast issued in December 1921. That forecast called for the first top of the bull wave in April, second top in August and the final top of the bull market October 8 to 15, and strange as it may seem, the average prices of twenty industrila stocks reached the highest point on Oct 14 and declined 10 points thirty days after that date."
* "The Ticker & Investment Digest", Dec 1909, Vol 5 Num 2:
"In order to substantiate Mr Gann's claims, we called upon Mr William E Gilley, an inspector of Imports. [Gilley says] "It is very difficult for me to remember all the predictions and operations of Mr Gann which may be classed as phenomenal but the following are a few: In 1908 when Union Pacific was 168-1/8 he told me that it would not touch 169 before it had a good break. We sold it short down to 152-5/8 covering on the weak spots, and putting it out again on the rallies, securing 23 points profit out of an 18 point wave. He came to me when United States Steel was selling around 50 and said 'this Steel will run up to 58 but will not sell at 59. From there it should break 16-3/4.' We sold it short around 58-3/4 with a stop at 59. The highest it went was 58-3/4 from there it declined 17.5 points." "One of the most astonishing calculations made by Mr Gann was during last summer (1909) when he predicted that September wheat would sell at $1.20 This meant that it must touch that figure before the end of the month of September. At twelve o'clock, Chicago time, on September 30th (last day) the option was selling below $1.08 and it looked as though his prediction would not be fulfilled. Mr Gann said 'If it does not touch $1.20 by the close of the market, then there is something wrong with my whole method of calculation. I do not care where the price is now, it must go there.' It is common history that September wheat surprised the whole country by selling at $1.20 and no higher in the very last hour of the trading, closing at that figure."
* From Gann's "Master Commodities Course"
"According to my discovery of the 60 year cycle, I had figured that 1929 would repeat like 1869, 1909 and 1919. Looking back 20 years, we find the top was reached in August 1909 and 60 years before, top was reached in July 1869. If you will read my Annual Forecast for 1929, you will see that I had figured that the top must come no later than the end of August and that a "Black Friday" would come in September...... there is no other way, outside from using the 20 and 60 year cycle that we would have forecasted this great bull campaign and its culmination so closely in 1929."
 
To add to my questions a little, years back when I did the Gann course in Melbourne (which was a load of crap because I was taught nothing of the techniques often mentioned on trading forms) there was a student in the class who had a real knack of finding stocks which conformed pretty neatly to the cycles we had neen learning about. Interestingly enough, when I started searching for the said cycles I allways seemed to come up empty handed. Sometimes I found stocks which appeared to be cyclical, but nothing like Gann cycles, other stocks seemed to be fairly random, it did become clear that stocks conforming to Gann cycles (what I had been learning anyway) were few and far between. This got me to thinking how much of the Gann cycles was coincedentally occouring, or put another way, if I picked out some numbers randomly and searched through the market unil I found stocks conforming to my new found cycles, would I acheive comparable trading results to that if I were using Gann cycles.
Assuming that I could find some stocks which worked well with Gann and I was able to get into and out of trends at optimum points, the key question in my mind still remains, is there any real benefit in using that if there are other stocks which either trend strongly or are in a wide but predictable trading range. At the end if the day it's all about how much we can get out of the market, not how neatly we can do it.

I'm not aware of any traders of "Market Wizard" calibre who predominantly use Gann techniques, are there any?

Cheers
Splint
 
Splint said:
I'm not aware of any traders of "Market Wizard" calibre who predominantly use Gann techniques, are there any?
Click to expand...

I don't know about "Market Wizard calibre" but last I heard Cameron Mitchell was doing very well.
 
I don't trade using any Gann methods but have read a little about them, Ganns books he wrote are almost written in riddles at times and ive heard that if you can understand and decipher what he wrote then you will trade like Gann

The safety in the market course is based around Gann and to be honest the ABC trading method they peddle is ok and can work, other Gann courses run to tens of thousands of $

Gann does seem to attract alot of critics and to be honest i do find the astrological side of his methods very strange but that said his methods do seem to have alot of followers and i don't doubt some make good money but think that may come down to good money management more than anything

Like any method each to there own and if you can get something from it then who cares what everyone else thinks or says.
 
Here is a good summary of Gann.

http://www.cycletrader.com.au/cycles.htm

Confluence of analysis gives "pressure points" or points of interest going forward.

Application of analysis (any form of analysis) is to me the key to successful use of analysis.
If you place on a chart all those confluence points of interest giong forward you will note that there are many.
Like Elliott/Fibonacci (which are often used in conjunction with Gann) if the point doesnt hold then the next point of confluence is used.
Its a case of prove the analysis or disprove.

In hindsite it is easy to remove all those points of confluence to reveal only the points which can be seen to have held.
This makes ANY analysis appear very accurate. When infact when applying in realtime many if not more pressure points dont hold and are then false.

Gann has more of these points in its analysis arsenal than any other form of analysis I have found.

I have watched a few "Good" Practitioners and my observations have been that their success rate is no better than anyone elses.Those that I have observed have had in my view poor application techniques--one taught me whilst doing my Technical Analysis 101 with the Securities Institute.
As A lecturer I expected that his application would be excellent but found that when he invited me into his home to watch him "trade live." that HE had no methodology for application of the analysis.While I'm sure some do I'm yet to see it applied profitably. Seen plenty of it applied here on ASF and whilst there are some excellent calls there are many more which pass--disproven.

For me I have found other forms of analysis simpler to apply and more suitable to my need for instant visual analysis.
Just my view.
 
tech/a said:
For me I have found other forms of analysis simpler to apply and more suitable to my need for instant visual analysis.
Just my view.
Click to expand...

That about encapsulates my view on Gann too. Nothing against it, but a convoluted way to get to a 50-50 punt.
 
To make money trading you have to find your own edge. You have to find what works for you. I know a lady who asks her pet parrott what shares to buy and she makes money. With a simple strategy and sound money management you can get ahead. Before you pay a spruiker for a course, why don't you read a few books on the subject? There's plenty of books on Gann.
 
Sunday 28 December 2008

FWIW, Gann was an incredibly astute astrologer, and when
you understand astrology, you can begin to understand
Gann.

I knew Billy Jones when he took over all the Gann material.
In reviewing some of Gann's original charts, they were
marked with planetary signs.

Gann's personal assistant was a man named Robert Courter.
I met with and spoke with him many times, prior to his
death, about 10 years ago. He confirmed how well Gann
knew astrology, and Courter himself was also well-versed
in the art.

Tunnel Through The Air is replete with astological references
in the writing. Gann's circles are all astrologically based, as
are the squares he uses. His number144, which looms large,
is 12 squared, the twelve astrological signs.

Reference to wheels within wheels are ways of viewing the
relationships of planetary orbits, and it is the angles of the
planets that affect/impact price behavior, plus, eclipses were
major when looking for reversals in trend, etc.

90 degrees and 180 degrees were "negative" angles, while
60 degrees and 120 degrees were "positive", in general.
Nothing about it is mechanical.

The price of gold is influenced by its planetary ruler, the Sun,
as another example. Like I said, it is very much of an art,
firstly, knowing astrology, and then more importantly, how
the planetary orbits relate to prices of various stocks or
commodities.

As above, so below.
 



Hi folks,

Let's clarify some of the statements above .....

"Gann was an incredibly astute astrologer"

A more accurate statement may be, that Gann worked closely,
with "an incredibly astute astrologer" ..... as found in Gann's
own book, Tunnel thru the Air, Walter Gorn-Old was the source
of Gann's astrological knowledge.

-----

"In reviewing some of Gann's original charts, they were
marked with planetary signs."

..... this is true. Copies of those original charts may be found
in a simple websearch.

-----

"Tunnel Through The Air is replete with astrological references"

Sure, Tunnel Through The Air IS replete with astrological references,
that relate to the trades, across different stocks and commodities.

But, there's also more than 150 Bible references in that same text,
which also relate to the same trades ..... so, these also need to be
deciphered, in order to gain a better understanding of Gann's methods.

-----

"His number144, which looms large, is 12 squared, the twelve
astrological signs."

..... 144 is 12 squared, but it is NOT the signs that 144 relates to,
in an astrological sense ..... it is a heavenly body.

-----

"Nothing about it is mechanical." ..... this statement is Sooooooo far
off the mark !~!

When the known pressure points are triggered by planetary movements,
then those positive and negative angles described above come into play
and these cycles can be calculated VERY ACCURATELY, making the
process VERY MECHANICAL ... !~!

.....

"The price of gold is influenced by its planetary ruler, the Sun"

Rulerships are man-made interpretations, which are extremely
vulnerable to error ... for some, it is much better to stay with the
God-given and mechanical time cycles, associated with the
very accurate and predictable planetary movements.

By removing the man-made layer of interpretations, we reveal the
sacred geometry beneath, making it a lot easier to understand .....

Basically all of Gann's books, except TTTTA, relate to the mechanics of
simple time cycles and market geometry. With such simple mechanics,
already in place as a pre-supposition, then TTTTA adds another layer,
with the more dynamic time cycles of astrology.

Of course, Gann's methods do not suit everybody, as it does take a
LOT of study to sort out the various approaches ..... but for many
traders, making the journey itself, is fulfilling.

have a great day

paul



=====
 
Monday 29 December 2008

Quibbling and semantics are wasted efforts for me,
but to remain silent would imply assent to the above
response.

My sources are original, and I stand on them.

To the point that needs to be addressed:

> "Nothing about it is mechanical." .....
> this statement is Sooooooo far off the mark !~!

Not at all.

> When the known pressure points are triggered by
> planetary movements, then those positive and
> negative angles described above come into play
> and these cycles can be calculated VERY ACCURATELY,
> making the process VERY MECHANICAL ... !~!

That is very much like saying, when the knowlege of
how to be a brain surgeon is once acquired, performing
brain surgery is VERY MECHANICAL.

[Pick your own analogy]

While the conclusion could very loosely be construed
as true, it utterly fails to take into consideration the
knowledge and skills needed, along with an understanding
of when and how to implement the observations, in
order to make that process VERY MECHANICAL.

Moving on.


Also:

> But, there's also more than 150 Bible references
> in that same text, which also relate to the same
> trades ..... so, these also need to be deciphered,
> in order to gain a better understanding of Gann's
> methods.

True, re the biblical references, themselves astrological
in content.
 
Understanding and identifying the intrinsic componets that characterize The Law of Vibration is much like trying to understand the mechanism of a closed watch . We can visibly see the face of the watch with its 45 90 135 180 deg timing increments positioned around the dial . We can also see the geometric structure as the minute and hour hands move through the price and time framework but without opening the case and unlocking the inner mechanism we are unable to compare our percieved workings of the object against the real workings of the inner mechanism herein lies the difficulty . Gann used both Civil Time & Plannetary Time in his work and placed a great deal of importance on the Natal Date of an instrument which is evident in his US Steel analysis . Gann used the FTD first trade date and also The Incorporation date as 0 Deg points which in the case of US Steel are quite close togethor . Sometimes it is quite common for a particular stock to have an incorporation date in say 1940 and the FTD in 1952 so there is a 12 year timing difference between the dates although both dates are significant 0 Deg points for future calculations . The proportionate parts of the circle are an important factor and we see Gann dividing the circle of 360 Deg into eigths and thirds and quarters which makes up the Gann emblem . This emblem represents the 360 deg of the zodiac and the important plannetary aspects that form within the wheel . Trine which is 33.3 66.6 100 , the square which represents 90 180 270 360 . these are the important geometric aspects that occur within the 12 signs of 360 Deg . 21st March is the start of the year at 0 Deg Aries where the sun crosses the ecliptic at the March 21st Vernal Equinox 180 deg or opposite this point is Sept 23rd which is also 90 Deg in longitude from June 21st . The earth completes one revolution every 24 hours moving 360 deg in longitude therefore one hour of Civil Time is equivalent to 15 deg in longitude . this is demonstrated on the square of nine which is divided up into 24 increments of 15 deg so at the 90 deg point or 0 Deg Cancer you have moved 6 hours in longitude ( 6 x 15 deg ) with every 15 deg being the equivalent to one hour , then at the 180 deg point or 0 Deg Libra we have moved 12 hours in longitude and would look for price aspects at 90 deg 120 deg or 180 deg from our position . The square of nine is a very complicated timing instrument and can be used across several timing zones .
Ganns work on Civil Time looks at the important time cycles like 60 years which is 720 Deg Saturn or two full revolutions of the planet . then the 50 year cycle or jubilee cycle a time of wiping debts clean , and then the other minor cycles like 10 years 5 years moving down to 90 day and 45 day cycles . The Geometric Angles according to Time are all laid out in his course and this area within itself can also get quite complicated depending upon which instrument is being charted and what timing and price scales are assigned . Say if you were trading Gold at 1.00 per mth time and price would be squared on the 45 Deg angle at 100.00 in 100 mths . these angles would be projected out from significant points and looked at against other factors such as the expiry of a large time cycle or conversion of multiple cycles into a central point . The mechanical applications of Gann certainly provide a sound foundation and alot of aspiring Gann students just overlook the basic principles and dont do the hard work which is why Gann didnt get along with his soon and pass on the knowledge , apparently his son used to sit in the office and make paper aeroplanes much to Ganns amuesment .
 
I have yet to see one Gann 'practitioner' actually post a potential winning trade either long or short, lots of other stuff about what has happened in 2006 or what will happen to WPL in December 2010 etc etc.

Can some of you guys prove me wrong... please, something that stands a greater than 50% chance of making a buck in the next week or so.
 

Yes, a profitable Gann trader does proove to be elusive, but Boggo, you know as well as I do, these Qs you pose don't 'proove' a thing.

A winning trade won't proove a better than 50% chance and a 50% chance won't proove a thing if you are trying to run winners with tight stops.

Just more of the gray that is the markets.

 
Over the next few months once I will try and post some trades and charts once I get back into the swing of things excuse the punn . Yogi I have a question for you regarding The Astrological Letters .

Dec 2nd 1953 May Soyabeans 311 1/4 high which equals 18 Deg 45" pisces or 348 Deg Geo , close square or 90 Deg of Jupiter , 135 Deg to Saturn , and 120 Deg Of Uranus . these calculations work out correctly on circle of 360 Deg .

Dec 2nd 1953 :

Jupiter is at 22 Gem 50" or 82.83 Deg Geo ( close square )
Saturn is at 4 Deg Scor 49" or 214.80 Deg Geo ( 135 deg )
Uranus is at 22 Deg Canc 35" or 112.59 Deg Geo ( 120 Deg )

The question is how does he convert 311 1/4 in to 18 Deg 45" Pisces or 348 Deg Geo , is this an intentional mistake to keep his students on track or does he mean 311 1/4 in price equals 11 Deg 15" Aquarius or 311 Deg Geo . If we use 11 Deg 15" Aquarius as the 0 Deg point the plannetary aspects do not work out and there are no significant angles
 
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