FMG - Fortescue Ltd

[Telamelo]

There is a recent & current proposal by the Treasury and the Government to disallow franking credits associated with capital raisings by Australian companies. Worse still, they are considering making the legislation retrospective.

This means that investors will be hit by huge tax bills for capital raisings that have been carried out, in good faith, in the past. Investors in companies like BHP, CBA, WBC, FMG etc. will all be severely and negatively affected.

I therefore urge ALL investors to strongly oppose this measure, the details of which can be found in the link below. The link contains an email address which can be used to voice your concerns/disapproval
(prior to deadline 5th October 2022).

https://treasury.gov.au/consultation/c2022-314358

 

[divs4ever]

When it comes to this topic I am full on nationalist.

would you like to run for Parliament , a nationalist would be a nice change to current agendas since Albo is a minority leader .. a by-election could be very opportunistic

 

[Belli]

There is a recent & current proposal by the Treasury and the Government to disallow franking credits associated with capital raisings by Australian companies. Worse still, they are considering making the legislation retrospective.

This means that investors will be hit by huge tax bills for capital raisings that have been carried out, in good faith, in the past. Investors in companies like BHP, CBA, WBC, FMG etc. will all be severely and negatively affected.

I therefore urge ALL investors to strongly oppose this measure, the details of which can be found in the link below. The link contains an email address which can be used to voice your concerns/disapproval
(prior to deadline 5th October 2022).

https://treasury.gov.au/consultation/c2022-314358

And

Do you mean the Tax Payer Alert (TA2015/2) on the subject matter and issued by the ATO in May 2015 wasn't sufficient warning to cause companies to exercise some caution about this matter?

 

[InsvestoBoy]

would you like to run for Parliament , a nationalist would be a nice change to current agendas since Albo is a minority leader .. a by-election could be very opportunistic

Here's the platform divs:

• Deficit spending to increase funding to industrial and medical science, industrial and medical science education
• Deficit spending on infrastructure projects using Australian primary and secondary inputs
• Massive deficit spending on social housing using Australian primary and secondary inputs
• Stalinist purge

What do you reckon?

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I see the FMG thread is still full of, if not insane rants, then mere barking balms for getting the country back on track.

The only way to get politicians to do anything is by bribery.

As for FMG. Twiggy is way ahead of anyone else. A profitable miner who has conned the Greens and gets huge grants from ALP, Libs and Nats.

Long live ole Twigs and FMG. Dig, mine iron ore and list Hydrogen FFI on the NASDAQ.

gg

 

[divs4ever]

Here's the platform divs:

• Deficit spending to increase funding to industrial and medical science, industrial and medical science education
• Deficit spending on infrastructure projects using Australian primary and secondary inputs
• Massive deficit spending on social housing using Australian primary and secondary inputs
• Stalinist purge

What do you reckon?

well you shouldn't need the Stalinist/Leninist purge once certain agendas lose a receptive ear . you should be able to calmly let their contracts expire .

i have never been against government spending when the outcomes improve national productivity ( that is REAL productivity where profits will be made and extra taxes paid in due course ) ( for instance Rudd's tragic 'pink batts ' initiative had some logic , but was poorly implemented .. i think solar hot water would have been a better choice ) the outcome more available power to the grid

platform one might be unnecessary if you no longer rely on universities ( and their hidden agendas ) to conduct research i would suggest a more rigorous oversight of corporate R&D but better tax breaks would yield better results ( but you have to watch out for scamsters doing bogus research just for the tax offsets ) ALSO an intense review on the Australian Patents office might be needed , so usable patent ideas can get to market sooner

now given Australia has a fairly persistent trade surplus despite limited manufacturing currently . would extra encouragement to the 'Made in Australia ' concept work better we have the currency flowing in , maybe we could use it better ( instead of over-spending on war machines and space projects .. there is a LOT of lightly explored Australia , PLENTY of space at ground level )

less taxes MIGHT increase business investment ( whether via shares and debt notes at retail level or more ambitious projects at corporate level )

but overall yes , you can always tweak it for the better once you are elected ( the poor old public are indoctrinated into increased deficit spending , so you can probably get away with that )

AND you probably have to break up the cartels ( like media and retail banks )

 

[basilio]

Another investment by FFI in terms of delivering hydrogen gas across Europe. They are partnering the development of a Hydrogen importing facility in Germany.

FORTESCUE FUTURE INDUSTRIES AND TREE ENERGY SOLUTIONS PARTNER TO DEVELOP WORLD LEADING GREEN HYDROGEN ENERGY IMPORT FACILITY IN GERMANY

Fortescue Metals Group Ltd (Fortescue, ASX: FMG) advises that Fortescue Future Industries (FFI) has entered a global strategic collaboration with energy infrastructure developer Tree Energy Solutions (TES) which aims to accelerate the development of a world leading green hydrogen and green energy import facility in Germany. The investment of €130 million (US$127 million) will be funded by FFI’s unutilised capital commitment and provides FFI with a pathway for access to critical infrastructure to execute its strategy.

Through the agreement, FFI subsidiary Netherlands Fortescue Future Industries Holdings B.V. will invest €30 million (US$29 million) to become a shareholder in Tree Energy Solutions B.V. as well as invest €100 million (US$98 million) in the construction of the TES terminal in Wilhelmshaven, Germany, and be a major shareholder with a 30 per cent stake in Deutsche Grüngas und Energieversorgung GmbH (a subsidiary of TES), the project company that will build the TES Green Energy Hub in Wilhelmshaven, Germany.

TES is developing a portfolio of terminals globally that will enable transportation of green energy. The first phase of this partnership is to jointly develop and invest in the supply of 300,000 tonnes of green hydrogen with final locations being currently agreed, and a financial investment decision targeted in 2023.

The first delivery of green hydrogen into TES’ terminal in Wilhelmshaven, Germany is anticipated to take place in 2026. Initial collaboration projects will be focused on Australia, Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

FFI and TES Green Hydrogen Import Facility in Germany (PDF 181.8 KB)

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Another investment by FFI in terms of delivering hydrogen gas across Europe. They are partnering the development of a Hydrogen importing facility in Germany.

FORTESCUE FUTURE INDUSTRIES AND TREE ENERGY SOLUTIONS PARTNER TO DEVELOP WORLD LEADING GREEN HYDROGEN ENERGY IMPORT FACILITY IN GERMANY

Fortescue Metals Group Ltd (Fortescue, ASX: FMG) advises that Fortescue Future Industries (FFI) has entered a global strategic collaboration with energy infrastructure developer Tree Energy Solutions (TES) which aims to accelerate the development of a world leading green hydrogen and green energy import facility in Germany. The investment of €130 million (US$127 million) will be funded by FFI’s unutilised capital commitment and provides FFI with a pathway for access to critical infrastructure to execute its strategy.

Through the agreement, FFI subsidiary Netherlands Fortescue Future Industries Holdings B.V. will invest €30 million (US$29 million) to become a shareholder in Tree Energy Solutions B.V. as well as invest €100 million (US$98 million) in the construction of the TES terminal in Wilhelmshaven, Germany, and be a major shareholder with a 30 per cent stake in Deutsche Grüngas und Energieversorgung GmbH (a subsidiary of TES), the project company that will build the TES Green Energy Hub in Wilhelmshaven, Germany.

TES is developing a portfolio of terminals globally that will enable transportation of green energy. The first phase of this partnership is to jointly develop and invest in the supply of 300,000 tonnes of green hydrogen with final locations being currently agreed, and a financial investment decision targeted in 2023.

The first delivery of green hydrogen into TES’ terminal in Wilhelmshaven, Germany is anticipated to take place in 2026. Initial collaboration projects will be focused on Australia, Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

FFI and TES Green Hydrogen Import Facility in Germany (PDF 181.8 KB)

It still seems like a long way to ship H2 from Gladstone.

I’d be interested in @InvestoBoy and @divs4ever ’s take on this if they can resist going off topic and discussing cartels, GDP, their boils and piles and other stuff that litters the FMG thread.

Other comfortably sitting ASF members are of course invited to comment on the feasibility of transporting H2 over such a long distance and how it will affect FMG and it’s divies.

gg

 

[divs4ever]

i would expect logistics will be quite a bit of change , the trip up the Suez , that H2 must be worth a lot landed in Germany , the ship , the crew , the infrastructure to load and unload , have to be at least as much as the same quantity of of LNG , so how does the energy efficiency compare ( to LNG )

in fact one might wonder if it was cheaper to make the H2 in Germany they have both seawater and fresh-water to apply the electrolysis to , maybe they should be help CCE ( Carnegie ) to commercialize that wave energy to generate the electricity in Germany

( i hold CCE , at considerable paper loss )

 

[Value Collector]

It still seems like a long way to ship H2 from Gladstone.

I’d be interested in @InvestoBoy and @divs4ever ’s take on this if they can resist going off topic and discussing cartels, GDP, their boils and piles and other stuff that litters the FMG thread.

Other comfortably sitting ASF members are of course invited to comment on the feasibility of transporting H2 over such a long distance and how it will affect FMG and it’s divies.

gg

I don’t think they are planning on transporting Hydrogen from Gladstone to Germany, where did you see them say that?

They are building a factory in Gladstone that will produce electrolisers, and these electrolisers will be used in many different locations.

So far FMG has already deals to conduct feasibility studies for projects all around the world, a few of them in Africa, which is much closer to Europe than Australia is.

But Australia is currently exporting shipment of LNG to Europe from Western Australia, if that is viable then hydrogen based fuels might be to.

 

[Value Collector]

Here is one example of possible african projects.

https://www.fmgl.com.au/in-the-news...of-the-republic-of-djibouti-on-green-hydrogen

You see, it’s quite centrally located between two large energy importing markets.

 

[Mr Flibble]

quote from the
"GREEN HYDROGEN TASK FORCE WHITE PAPER AND 10 POINT ACTION PLAN
JUNE 2022

Securing Green Hydrogen for Germany and the EU"

Transporting sufficient green hydrogen supplies to the EU will also require significant expansion of export and import
infrastructure, as well as ammonia and hydrogen storage facilities, both at outbound and inbound ports. While
relevant ports across Western Australia and Northern Europe are planning to build up these facilities, their plans
would need to be accelerated to ensure green hydrogen can reach Germany with no transport bottlenecks by 2024

But there's also Egypt?:

Fortescue Future Industries studies green hydrogen opportunities in the Arab Republic of Egypt | Fortescue Future Industries

ffi.com.au

From what I've read and listened to, shipping ammonia is fraught with problems#, and mixing hydrogen into the natural gas grid for consumer use is just plain dumb##.



Maybe it would be better to make the green steel and/or fertiiser where the renewable (or nuclear?) electricity production is and ship that instead of ammonia?


# eg https://www.rechargenews.com/energy...derived-ammonia-around-the-world-/2-1-1267513

## eg


I hold a fair whack (by my standards) of FMG, and wish Twiggy's endeavours well, but have a few concerns about the hydrogen hype...

 

[Value Collector]

quote from the
"GREEN HYDROGEN TASK FORCE WHITE PAPER AND 10 POINT ACTION PLAN
JUNE 2022

Securing Green Hydrogen for Germany and the EU"



But there's also Egypt?:

Fortescue Future Industries studies green hydrogen opportunities in the Arab Republic of Egypt | Fortescue Future Industries

ffi.com.au

From what I've read and listened to, shipping ammonia is fraught with problems#, and mixing hydrogen into the natural gas grid for consumer use is just plain dumb##.



Maybe it would be better to make the green steel and/or fertiiser where the renewable (or nuclear?) electricity production is and ship that instead of ammonia?


# eg https://www.rechargenews.com/energy...derived-ammonia-around-the-world-/2-1-1267513

## eg


I hold a fair whack (by my standards) of FMG, and wish Twiggy's endeavours well, but have a few concerns about the hydrogen hype...

Yep, FMG is planning to make a lot of hydrogen in WA, because that is where their Iron Mining and shipping operations are, and they are planning on converting those operations to 100% renewable electricity, battery and hydrogen fuels over the next 10 years or so.

So I imagine once they are producing more hydrogen than they can consume in their operations they will be exporting from WA, so early shipments to Europe could be sourced from WA.

However, the Natural home for WA produced Hydrogen fuel exports would be Asia, that’s even more true for any production that comes out of Gladstone. So as FMG’s African projects come online, obviously fuel for Europe would be shipped from there.

————————
In relation to your other comments,

FMG is actually planning on making Ammonia fuel, which can replace diesel/bunker oil as a fuel for ships so it’s not just straight hydrogen they are looking to exports.

Also, I am not sure if you have noticed but there is an energy crisis in Europe, I am not sure they have large amounts of renewable or nuclear electricity that could be diverted to producing green hydrogen, any extra renewable electricity they produce will be needed to be used as electricity as they wind down fossil fuels over the next 10 years and ween themselves off Russian gas.

 

[Mr Flibble]

FMG is actually planning on making Ammonia fuel, which can replace diesel/bunker oil as a fuel for ships so it’s not just straight hydrogen they are looking to exports.

# eg https://www.rechargenews.com/energy...derived-ammonia-around-the-world-/2-1-1267513

 

[Value Collector]

Yes, Ammonia is toxic and flammable, but so is the exisiting fuels used to power ships, and yes if we were exporting large quantities of ammonia there would be a risk of a spill, but we already accept similar risks with the Oil and gas we transport.

But also I don’t think FMG have settled on an exact method of transporting bulk hydrogen yet. Ammonia is one idea that is being floated around, but I don’t think it’s settled yet. (They will be using it as a shipping fuel though.

 

[Mr Flibble]

Yes, Ammonia is toxic and flammable, but so is the exisiting fuels used to power ships, and yes if we were exporting large quantities of ammonia there would be a risk of a spill, but we already accept similar risks with the Oil and gas we transport.

But also I don’t think FMG have settled on an exact method of transporting bulk hydrogen yet. Ammonia is one idea that is being floated around, but I don’t think it’s settled yet. (They will be using it as a shipping fuel though.

Did you read the article?

Oil floats. Ammonia "attaches itself to moisture"

If someone (FFI?) can come up with an economical way of making methane from renewables, that would be the dog's bollocks.

 

[Value Collector]

Did you read the article?

Oil floats. Ammonia "attaches itself to moisture"

If someone (FFI?) can come up with an economical way of making methane from renewables, that would be the dog's bollocks.

Yeah I read the article,

oil floats and creates massive slicks that spread across the surface where as Ammonia dilutes into the water, both cause damage and both have pros and cons.

———————

I think in the future hydrogen will be used as the feedstock for refineries that churn out all sorts of hydrocarbons, synthetically produced methane and jet fuel could be possible.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

So the consensus which I share is that manufacturing H2 for transport from Australia to Europe in bulk by FMG is a “bridge too far”.

However for use by FMG’s iron ore outfit in WA, export to Asia and use of technology “on site” in Europe and North America, it is a goer.

gg

 

[Value Collector]

So the consensus which I share is that manufacturing H2 for transport from Australia to Europe in bulk by FMG is a “bridge too far”.

However for use by FMG’s iron ore outfit in WA, export to Asia and use of technology “on site” in Europe and North America, it is a goer.

gg

It depends on price, at the moment they are profitably exporting LNG to Europe from Western Australia, so at times it might make sense.

 

[SirRumpole]

I was in Canada last month sorting out some family business. Then surprise, surprise I picked up a copy of the GlobeandMail and saw that Twiggy was in Maple leaf land spruiking his grand Hydrogen vision. I found a copy of the (lengthy) article on another investment forum and attached a link. (The Globeandmail story is behind a paywall)

It is a big and clever sell which the writer has neatly spiked. Twiggy has sold his dream in 36 countries around the world. He is the type of successful, big business visionary which many governments would love to snare - but he will ask a big price to play. By opening discussions with so many countries Twiggy is effectively creating a competitive bidding war for inviting FMG/FFI to establish some of its proposed massive renewable energy/hydrogen production plants in their country

The pitch for Canada is using some of the surplus hydro power from their huge plants to create cheap hydrogen and use it for industrial plants, ammonia and green steel. His team took the FMG ideas across the country from Prince George to Newfoundland and Labradour to the North West Territories. Each area was individually appraised and lobbied .

Twiggy trick is creating the market, the supply and being the first huge industrial user of green hydrogen. He is signing up customers for millions of tons of green hydrogen to be delivered by 2030. Then he turns around and creates a number of operations both locally and OS to create the green hydrogen to meet that demand. And in the middle of the process FMG itself becomes the first massive industrial enterprise to use the green hydrogen it produces to mine, transport and transform its iron ore effectively proving the commercial and environmental value of green hydrogen. Neat trick..

Another interesting observation in the article is pointing out how Twiggy is no hurry to finalise hydrogen electrolyser technologies. He seems keenly aware that radical improvements are being made yearly in electrolysers and that innovation and a little patience will reduce costs substantially. I think in the same vein Twiggy will be looking at the latest improvements in solar and wind technologies for his operations. And in a number of cases he will have bought the companies that own the technology

IMV well worth a read as an insight into Twiggys strategies.

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Learnt a bit from Bill Gates didn't he ?