FMG - Fortescue Ltd

[divs4ever]

If there isn't a "Europe" in 2030 then really we won't be in any great shape.
Frankly the way things are playing out in Ukraine 2023 looks doubtful.

well ( September ) 2019 made me worry , the virus response made me concerned , and i am looking everywhere where comparatively smooth waters ( a nibble at a PNG company , a dabble in Zimbabwe group , an ETF and a LIC with India exposure

i think things could get really messy in many places

 

[Value Collector]

So an onshore windmill can generae about 2.5-3 MW of electricity... 450GW is 450000MW... So it will take 180,000-150,000 windmills...

India's Bhadla Solar Park is the largest solar park in the world it is 160 square kilometers in size and produces 2700 MW... So to produce 450 GW one would need 167 .. construction cost was $1.3B US ...

What is more than likely to happen if this actually does happen is that a portion of the hydrogen production will be done by wind and solar but the majority of the ammonia or hydrogen will be made out of natural gas...

Heck the European Commission has decided that power plants burning natural gas can be considered generators of green energy.

I think we are all going to be surprised by just how much renewable energy projects are completed in the next 10 years.

One thing to remember is that loads of solar is being installed everywhere across Australia, which means often for a few hours a day the total production of solar spikes that it causes prices to go negative, during these times hydrogen producers could be pulling the excess power straight out of the grid, same story with wind production in the middle of the night.

So a hydrogen producer won’t have to use only their own wind and solar infrastructure, they can be buying the excess on the market, which is good because it would help keep the price people sell their solar production for higher, which encourages more people to keep installing solar panels, it’s like a positive feedback loop.

Also, on days where the grid is struggling to keep up with demand and the grid price for electricity rises, the hydrogen producers can divert their wind and solar assets to feed the grid instead of their electrolyses when ever the price of high enough, this would help cap grid wholesale price surges.

The biggest barrier at the moment to companies installing more wind and solar is the periods of low wholesale electricity pricing, having a hydrogen production market to put a floor under the wholesale electricity price will cause a boom in investment in renewable projects.

 

[dat111]

I think we are all going to be surprised by just how much renewable energy projects are completed in the next 10 years.

One thing to remember is that loads of solar is being installed everywhere across Australia, which means often for a few hours a day the total production of solar spikes that it causes prices to go negative, during these times hydrogen producers could be pulling the excess power straight out of the grid, same story with wind production in the middle of the night.

So a hydrogen producer won’t have to use only their own wind and solar infrastructure, they can be buying the excess on the market, which is good because it would help keep the price people sell their solar production for higher, which encourages more people to keep installing solar panels, it’s like a positive feedback loop.

Also, on days where the grid is struggling to keep up with demand and the grid price for electricity rises, the hydrogen producers can divert their wind and solar assets to feed the grid instead of their electrolyses when ever the price of high enough, this would help cap grid wholesale price surges.

The biggest barrier at the moment to companies installing more wind and solar is the periods of low wholesale electricity pricing, having a hydrogen production market to put a floor under the wholesale electricity price will cause a boom in investment in renewable projects.

A quick google for how many windmills are in the US yielded a result of 70,800...This project will need double this number just for FFI...

As of 2021, Australia's over 3.04 million solar PV installations had a combined capacity of 25,321 MW photovoltaic (PV) solar power, of which at least 4,613 MW were installed in the preceding 12 months.... so if 4613 MW are constructed each year it will take an additional 97 years of solar production to reach the 450,000 MW needed for this FFI project.

 

[qldfrog]

A quick google for how many windmills are in the US yielded a result of 70,800...This project will need double this number just for FFI...

As of 2021, Australia's over 3.04 million solar PV installations had a combined capacity of 25,321 MW photovoltaic (PV) solar power, of which at least 4,613 MW were installed in the preceding 12 months.... so if 4613 MW are constructed each year it will take an additional 97 years of solar production to reach the 450,000 MW needed for this FFI project.

@dat111 , you seem to forget the power of narratives

 

[Value Collector]

A quick google for how many windmills are in the US yielded a result of 70,800...This project will need double this number just for FFI...

As of 2021, Australia's over 3.04 million solar PV installations had a combined capacity of 25,321 MW photovoltaic (PV) solar power, of which at least 4,613 MW were installed in the preceding 12 months.... so if 4613 MW are constructed each year it will take an additional 97 years of solar production to reach the 450,000 MW needed for this FFI project.

Ok, so you are missing a few key points here.

1, its not just Australia, they are planning constructing energy projects around the world.

2, it’s not just solar and wind, they are also exploring options for massive hydro and geothermal projects, check out this link
https://www.fmgl.com.au/in-the-news...rgy-and-hydrogen-projects-in-papua-new-guinea

3, As I mentioned the low whole sale price of electricity has slowed development of solar and wind, for example a company I invest in (APA) says they would love to be developing more large scale solar but the low prices in the peak production times makes it not worthwhile, but having hydrogen producers step in and buy during those times puts a floor under the price, and would encourage (APA) and many other companies to invest more.

3, FMG themselves are building a factory to produce their own solar cells, and are going to massively ramp up production, so current installation rates don’t really provide an accurate figures of what the future will look like.


And finally, these are just targets, if they miss the them there is no penalty, but aiming for the target does mean they will achieve alot in the mean time.

They main point is that they are building electrolisers and green energy projects as fast as they can, and have set some big targets.

Remember no one believed they would build their Iron Ore business like they did either, but they proved everyone wrong.

 

[basilio]

Ok, so you are missing a few key points here.

1, its not just Australia, they are planning constructing energy projects around the world.

2, it’s not just solar and wind, they are also exploring options for massive hydro and geothermal projects, check out this link
https://www.fmgl.com.au/in-the-news...rgy-and-hydrogen-projects-in-papua-new-guinea

3, As I mentioned the low whole sale price of electricity has slowed development of solar and wind, for example a company I invest in (APA) says they would love to be developing more large scale solar but the low prices in the peak production times makes it not worthwhile, but having hydrogen producers step in and buy during those times puts a floor under the price, and would encourage (APA) and many other companies to invest more.

3, FMG themselves are building a factory to produce their own solar cells, and are going to massively ramp up production, so current installation rates don’t really provide an accurate figures of what the future will look like.


And finally, these are just targets, if they miss the them there is no penalty, but aiming for the target does mean they will achieve alot in the mean time.

They main point is that they are building electrolisers and green energy projects as fast as they can, and have set some big targets.

Remember no one believed they would build their Iron Ore business like they did either, but they proved everyone wrong.

The rate of improvements in solar and wind technology is also accelerating. I'm not sure where DAT got his figures from but we know that the efficiencies of new and forecast wind/solar technologies have changed the costs, returns and construction times of these plants.

Care to show the source for figures on solar/wind replacement DAT ?

In any case we don't actually have a choice about rapidly decarbonising our economies and moving to a renewable energy future. The acceleration of global warming as a result of massive GG emissions underpins the need to make this work.

Advancements in Wind Turbine Technology: Improving Efficiency and Reducing Cost

Wind power capacity has increased dramatically in the U.S. recently — and accompanying that, the turbines that produce it have become more powerful, more efficient and more affordable for power producers.

www.renewableenergyworld.com

https://www3.weforum.org › docs › WEF_Wind_and_Solar_2030.pdf

Energy Technologies 2030 Wind and solar PV will keep ...​

performance improvements will continue. Costs of solar PV energy will decrease by 50% while onshore and offshore wind energy costs will fall by 25 and 50%, respectively, driven by technological improvements and economies of scale. Wind and solar PV industries have demonstrated their ability to lower energy costs drastically in the last 10 years, while increasing efficiency.4 Declining costs ...

 

[JohnDe]

Time to buy?

With markets dropping like the Titanic, there is going to be buying opportunities. I don't own FMG but have kept an eye on it for a couple of years, I like the Forrest's.

Australian Story: Series 2022 The Undercover Billionaire - Nicola Forrest

What would you do if you were a billionaire? Motivated by the loss of her daughter, Nicola Forrest, with her husband Andrew, has pledged to give away the "vast majority" of their $25 billion mining fortune.

iview.abc.net.au

 

[Value Collector]

Time to buy?

With markets dropping like the Titanic, there is going to be buying opportunities. I don't own FMG but have kept an eye on it for a couple of years, I like the Forrest's.

Australian Story: Series 2022 The Undercover Billionaire - Nicola Forrest

What would you do if you were a billionaire? Motivated by the loss of her daughter, Nicola Forrest, with her husband Andrew, has pledged to give away the "vast majority" of their $25 billion mining fortune.

iview.abc.net.au

If any one doesn’t know the history of Fortescue, or understand the challenges that they over came to build the company and the grit and determination the team has or the skills in finance, engineering and construction they have accrued, you should watch this.

Even the first 5 mins is pretty amazing

 

[dat111]

The rate of improvements in solar and wind technology is also accelerating. I'm not sure where DAT got his figures from but we know that the efficiencies of new and forecast wind/solar technologies have changed the costs, returns and construction times of these plants.

Care to show the source for figures on solar/wind replacement DAT ?

In any case we don't actually have a choice about rapidly decarbonising our economies and moving to a renewable energy future. The acceleration of global warming as a result of massive GG emissions underpins the need to make this work.

Advancements in Wind Turbine Technology: Improving Efficiency and Reducing Cost

Wind power capacity has increased dramatically in the U.S. recently — and accompanying that, the turbines that produce it have become more powerful, more efficient and more affordable for power producers.

www.renewableenergyworld.com

https://www3.weforum.org › docs › WEF_Wind_and_Solar_2030.pdf

Energy Technologies 2030 Wind and solar PV will keep ...​

performance improvements will continue. Costs of solar PV energy will decrease by 50% while onshore and offshore wind energy costs will fall by 25 and 50%, respectively, driven by technological improvements and economies of scale. Wind and solar PV industries have demonstrated their ability to lower energy costs drastically in the last 10 years, while increasing efficiency.4 Declining costs ...

Number of Windmills installed in US... As of January 2022, the U.S. Wind Turbine Database (USWTDB) contains more than 70,800 turbines.

How many wind turbines are installed in the U.S. each year? | U.S. Geological Survey

The number of turbines installed in the U.S. each year varies based on a number of factors, but on average 3,000 turbines have been built in the U.S. each year since 2005. Learn more: Wind Energy U.S. Wind Turbine Database

www.usgs.gov

This comes from wikipedia... I usually look at Wikipedia with a grain of salt but for something like this that is so far off.. it is interesting...especially when it falls in line with other articles for solar generation...

Solar power in Australia is a fast growing industry. As of 2021, Australia's over 3.04 million solar PV installations had a combined capacity of 25,321 MW photovoltaic (PV) solar power,[1] of which at least 4,613 MW were installed in the preceding 12 months

Solar power in Australia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This comes from wikipedia... I usually look at Wikipedia with a grain of salt but for something like this that is so far off... the logic train... I don't look too much futher expecially when it is confirmed by other interesting items such as largest solar farm in the world queries that show stuff in the 2,245 MW... when Fortesque needs 450.000 MW...

The 20 Largest Solar Power Plants in the World - SolarPower.Guide - Infographic

The global solar energy movement is supported by the incredible, expansive solar farms that are being built around the globe.

solarpower.guide

 

[dat111]

If any one doesn’t know the history of Fortescue, or understand the challenges that they over came to build the company and the grit and determination the team has or the skills in finance, engineering and construction they have accrued, you should watch this.

Even the first 5 mins is pretty amazing

There is a big difference between developing a mining operation and building more expensive new technolgy based upon the religion of global warming. My experience on this planet has shown that people are selfish... They are more worried about their lifestyle today than some possible outcome far into the future. People expecially today are not interesting in mitigating problems that could occur 100s or 1000s of years from now... People will adapt to problems that occur that has been what the human race has done for ever...

 

[Value Collector]

Number of Windmills installed in US... As of January 2022, the U.S. Wind Turbine Database (USWTDB) contains more than 70,800 turbines.

How many wind turbines are installed in the U.S. each year? | U.S. Geological Survey

The number of turbines installed in the U.S. each year varies based on a number of factors, but on average 3,000 turbines have been built in the U.S. each year since 2005. Learn more: Wind Energy U.S. Wind Turbine Database

www.usgs.gov

This comes from wikipedia... I usually look at Wikipedia with a grain of salt but for something like this that is so far off.. it is interesting...especially when it falls in line with other articles for solar generation...

Solar power in Australia is a fast growing industry. As of 2021, Australia's over 3.04 million solar PV installations had a combined capacity of 25,321 MW photovoltaic (PV) solar power,[1] of which at least 4,613 MW were installed in the preceding 12 months

Solar power in Australia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This comes from wikipedia... I usually look at Wikipedia with a grain of salt but for something like this that is so far off... the logic train... I don't look too much futher expecially when it is confirmed by other interesting items such as largest solar farm in the world queries that show stuff in the 2,245 MW... when Fortesque needs 450.000 MW...

The 20 Largest Solar Power Plants in the World - SolarPower.Guide - Infographic

The global solar energy movement is supported by the incredible, expansive solar farms that are being built around the globe.

solarpower.guide

Remember though the USA has a lot of these older wind farms made up of hundreds on small turbines, so don’t confuse them with the large modern ones that are being build today, a huge modern wind turbine is equal to dozens of the small ones.

Driving through California you can come across hill sides covered with hundreds of small turbines, where today they would just build 10 big ones.

 

[Value Collector]

There is a big difference between developing a mining operation and building more expensive new technolgy based upon the religion of global warming. My experience on this planet has shown that people are selfish... They are more worried about their lifestyle today than some possible outcome far into the future. People expecially today are not interesting in mitigating problems that could occur 100s or 1000s of years from now... People will adapt to problems that occur that has been what the human race has done for ever...

It’s not that different really, all the pieces of their planned energy infrastructure basically exist, eg wind turbines, solar panels, hydro dams, electrolisers, they just need to plan, engineer and build the things to put it all together.

 

[dat111]

Remember though the USA has a lot of these older wind farms made up of hundreds on small turbines, so don’t confuse them with the large modern ones that are being build today, a huge modern wind turbine is equal to dozens of the small ones.

Driving through California you can come across hill sides covered with hundreds of small turbines, where today they would just build 10 big ones.

View attachment 141339View attachment 141340View attachment 141341

OK let's use your futurinstic wind turbine that produces 20000kW (20 MW)... Instead of the number of turbines needed as 180,000-150,000... The number now becomes 22,500 of the largest futuristic wind turbine... if the smaller futuristic turbine is used... it will be 45,000 wind turbines needed.

 

[Value Collector]

OK let's use your futurinstic wind turbine that produces 20000kW (20 MW)... Instead of the number of turbines needed as 180,000-150,000... The number now becomes 22,500 of the largest futuristic wind turbine... if the smaller futuristic turbine is used... it will be 45,000 wind turbines needed.

Yeah, if you are ignoring the fact that they will also be using solar and hydro.

But even your number of 22,500 doesn’t seem to crazy, as you said the USA installs 3000 per year, over 10 years that’s 30,000.

 

[basilio]

There is a big difference between developing a mining operation and building more expensive new technolgy based upon the religion of global warming. My experience on this planet has shown that people are selfish... They are more worried about their lifestyle today than some possible outcome far into the future. People expecially today are not interesting in mitigating problems that could occur 100s or 1000s of years from now... People will adapt to problems that occur that has been what the human race has done for ever...

Well DAT if that is your level of understanding about how immediately dangerous global warming is to human civilization then there is little point discussing ways to get out of the situation.

World wide forest fires in the Arctic regions ? Murderous heatwaves in India/Pakistan - now. Imminent (10-20years) collapse of ice shelfs that will raise sea levels by metres. ?

"Some possible outcomes ....that could occur 100's/1000's of years from now "

 

[qldfrog]

What's happening with fmg?
Too much hot air in windmills?

 

[divs4ever]

Well DAT if that is your level of understanding about how immediately dangerous global warming is to human civilization then there is little point discussing ways to get out of the situation.

World wide forest fires in the Arctic regions ? Murderous heatwaves in India/Pakistan - now. Imminent (10-20years) collapse of ice shelfs that will raise sea levels by metres. ?

"Some possible outcomes ....that could occur 100's/1000's of years from now "

the IMMEDIATE danger is an escalation in tensions with China and Russia , trouble could easily come at hyper-sonic speed , and there will be few left to worry about pollution OR climate change

 

[eskys]

What's happening with fmg?
Too much hot air in windmills?

Air too thick with covid in China, qldfrog. I would guess their immediate needs are to contain the virus and ensure the supply of food? Won't be looking at metals for now. Humans are animals with strong survival instincts, otherwise we would perish............by the way, iron ore last night.................









CommSec

@CommSec
·
2h

Good morning, the iron ore futures price fell by US$6.45 or 4.7% to US$131.99 a tonne yesterday. #ausbiz #ausecon #commsec

 

[eskys]

Time to buy?

With markets dropping like the Titanic, there is going to be buying opportunities. I don't own FMG but have kept an eye on it for a couple of years, I like the Forrest's.

Australian Story: Series 2022 The Undercover Billionaire - Nicola Forrest

What would you do if you were a billionaire? Motivated by the loss of her daughter, Nicola Forrest, with her husband Andrew, has pledged to give away the "vast majority" of their $25 billion mining fortune.

iview.abc.net.au

Markets have been dropping for weeks now, we'll get some reprieve tonight? VIX up

 

[qldfrog]

Markets have been dropping for weeks now, we'll get some reprieve tonight? VIX up

yes BTD ROL