Essendon - Supporter Support

Putty7 said:

So if the list is thin what do we need when cut and fill time is at hand....

A second ruckman worth his salt would be nice, Paddy Ryder does his job ok, but he was also a good position player, both forward and back, so really he could be a third ruckman on the ground without upsetting the balance of the side and when the first or second ruck is out (injured or otherwise) he could step up.

Hille is not getting any younger, while not old enough to be close to retirement for a few years, it takes time to develop a good ruck unless like Collingwood did you go shopping for a current player. So we look down the list at Bellchambers and Laycock, they have had enough time to prove themselves. Bellchambers looked lack lustre yesterday and Laycock just looks lazy whenever he actually gets to play.

Hille is the first ruck, when he is out like at the present the bombers really struggle, did he make the difference to the 5 we won, no other ruckman we have has imposed himself on the game like Hille. When our mids get first hands they actually look ok even if they do lack pace.

One or preferably two fast midfielders would be nice.

Without going over board this would be a good starting point imho.

I really can't understand why Heath Hocking was left on Lecras for so long, or why for that matter he was in the backline at all, we know he isn't fast but his value is doing the bullock work in the centre like the role smokin Joe used to fill when the Dons were in their prime.

I think Knights will end up going, unfortunately I also have a feeling we will get a wooden spoon this year which will make the event transpire.

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Essendon's predicament has been a long time in the making. About 10 years in fact. Our strength has also been our biggest weakness. We've always had a relative strong core, skilled talented group of players to build a team around. But alas, our recruiters have not been up to the task.

The Bombers have a heap of players that you might call "top up" players. They might add a missing element to a good side or turn an average side into a good one, but you cannot recruit "top up" players for a decade and expect quality results.

The last decade is littered with players that never made it. Unfortunately, not only does the turnover mean a failed recruit - it means the club never builds up a list of depth. Players such as Cupido, Reynolds, Johns, Davies, Bolton, Bannister, Richards etc were taking up valuable game time for 40-100games but always failing to ever actually "make it".

Their failures were in part patched over by the performances of players the calibre of Hird, Lucas, Johnson and Lloyd.

Now 10 years later, we have a group of players that were supposed to "add" to the group, now expected to win Premierships.

Duckman

Place Team P W D L
1 Collingwood 16 12 1 3 1699 1258 135.06 50
2 Geelong 16 12 0 4 1787 1252 142.73 48
3 St Kilda 16 12 0 4 1355 1117 121.31 48
4 Fremantle 16 11 0 5 1644 1383 118.87 44
5 Bulldogs 16 10 0 6 1575 1180 133.47 40
6 Sydney 16 9 0 7 1431 1286 111.28 36
7 Hawthorn 16 9 0 7 1436 1327 108.21 36
8 Carlton 16 8 0 8 1506 1441 104.51 32
9 North Melbourne 16 8 0 8 1330 1562 85.15 32
10 Adelaide 16 7 0 9 1341 1433 93.58 28
11 Melbourne 16 5 1 10 1274 1434 88.84 22
12 Essendon 16 5 0 11 1417 1695 83.60 20
13 Brisbane 16 5 0 11 1317 1614 81.60 20
14 Port Adelaide 16 5 0 11 1217 1564 77.81 20
15 Richmond 16 5 0 11 1216 1639 74.19 20
16 West Coast 16 4 0 12 1318 1678 78.55 16

Only 4 more rungs to go and the wooden spoon awaits. :

nulla nulla said:

Only 4 more rungs to go and the wooden spoon awaits. :

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And when you look at the difference in games won and percentage, any of the 5 or 6 bottom teams could be there for the taking!

I'm so pi$$ed off I had to work this weekend, it's not often I get to see my boys play, let alone have a win. LeCras' performance would have been worth the price of admission alone!

I wonder what the TAB odds are for Knights getting the flick before the end of the season?

A great win over the Saints, Hille, Monfries and Gumby all looked good and glad to have them back and getting run in again, Gumby might be injured but more to come on that front.

It is a pleasant change to see the young guys who haven't had much time this year getting a run and what a difference it makes, why have Colyer, Houli, Hardingham and Howlett not been getting a run more often, Stanton running out of defense is a winning move by Knights, Hurley played a solid game at centre half back and is looking like he will stay in that role for the time being. Tayte Pears is still to come back in. Fletcher as always played well.

Even Mr Shuffles looked good in the first quarter playing up the ground, Hardingham may well be the key to the forward line next year, another leading target that can take a strong mark under pressure is something that has been lacking since Lloyd left, Hurley did a cameo in this role at the end of last season but his value in the backline may take precedence over any ambitions to play forward.

We have batted on about it for a while but depth is still the big problem, only one game this year won without David Hille says a lot about the ruck stock and their importance to Knights game strategy, you can't play a midfield style game without decent rucks, Paddy Ryder played another beauty last night with Hille back in, the two compliment each other very well. It's a pity we couldn't poach another ruckman from somewhere to bolster the ruck stock, the Collywobblers did it with Jolly and it has payed off in spades for them.

Anyway well done to Knights, he may well pull a rabbit out the hat again before the year is over if he can keep them fit and on the park.

Putty7 said:

A great win over the Saints, Hille, Monfries and Gumby all looked good and glad to have them back and getting run in again, Gumby might be injured but more to come on that front.

It is a pleasant change to see the young guys who haven't had much time this year getting a run and what a difference it makes, why have Colyer, Houli, Hardingham and Howlett not been getting a run more often, Stanton running out of defense is a winning move by Knights, Hurley played a solid game at centre half back and is looking like he will stay in that role for the time being. Tayte Pears is still to come back in. Fletcher as always played well.

Even Mr Shuffles looked good in the first quarter playing up the ground, Hardingham may well be the key to the forward line next year, another leading target that can take a strong mark under pressure is something that has been lacking since Lloyd left, Hurley did a cameo in this role at the end of last season but his value in the backline may take precedence over any ambitions to play forward.

We have batted on about it for a while but depth is still the big problem, only one game this year won without David Hille says a lot about the ruck stock and their importance to Knights game strategy, you can't play a midfield style game without decent rucks, Paddy Ryder played another beauty last night with Hille back in, the two compliment each other very well. It's a pity we couldn't poach another ruckman from somewhere to bolster the ruck stock, the Collywobblers did it with Jolly and it has payed off in spades for them.

Anyway well done to Knights, he may well pull a rabbit out the hat again before the year is over if he can keep them fit and on the park.

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A good wrap up Putty. Just great to get a good win under the belt. The boys seemed so much more committed this week. The game against West Coast was a low point.

Stanton out of defense was fantastic. Fletcher and Hooker both played very well, Watson was leading by example....but the injection of Howlett, Hardingham, Houli and Colyer really transformed the side. Players like Dyson, Slattery, Welsh and Winderlich should take a note.

Hille and Ryder play well together. God knows what Mr Shuffles was doing playing on the wing at one stage but hats off to him - he did some good team stuff.

Well done Knights - some nice moves last night.

The frustrating thing for Bomber supporters is how we can beat St Kilda twice, beat the Bulldogs, Hawks and beat Carlton during the season and then lose 2 games to teams like West Coast and Melbourne.

Duckman

And the pendulum swings, one week beaten by Melbourne then a couple of weeks later, knock off St Kilda.

nulla nulla said:

And the pendulum swings, one week beaten by Melbourne then a couple of weeks later, knock off St Kilda.

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Yes - they are hopelessly inconsistent Nulla.

Duckman

Oh dear.

Another few years at the bottom end by the look.

Duckman#72 said:

Yes - they are hopelessly inconsistent Nulla.

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On a positive note - they are now at least finding some consistency.

Duckman

No doubt Knights will make another 4 or 5 changes this week, probably bringing the 4 or 5 he dropped last week back in:

nomore4s said:

No doubt Knights will make another 4 or 5 changes this week, probably bringing the 4 or 5 he dropped last week back in:

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I think he should have been playing people more consistently as well Nomores BUT.....be fair - Fletcher has a back injury as does Lovatt-Murray, Gumbleton has fractured ribs, Davey has a broken arm, Houli has a knee injury, Winderlich has a broken hand, Pears has been out after surgery to his pancreas and Zaharakis did his knee against the Pies and will be missing for the rest of the season.

Add to the mix the injuries during the season to Hille, Dyson, Hooker, McVeigh, Welsh, Reimers and Hurley together with reports to Fletcher and the personnel changes have had to be made.

Nomores - I am in no way suggesting that the side couldn't have been more settled and some of the younger "kids" given a longer go, but to be fair to Knights he has had a lot of these changes forced on him to plug gaps (due to the lack of depth).

Who are our best 22 anyway? F'd if I know anymore?

The sad thing is Howlett, Colyer, Melksham, Hardingham have put their hand up to be senior footballers next year in the midfield rotation. I say sad because in a handful of games in one year, they have shown in many cases more guts, ticker and skills than players of up to 5 years like Dyson, Winderlich, Prismall, Myers and Davey. Sure players like Houli and Jetta are in and out of the side, but they are not making the selectors pick them.

Duckman

Surprisingly quiet on this thread considering the events of the last 24 hours or so.

The whole affair has been pretty poorly managed by the Bombers and I think the board has some serious questions to answer.

Got to feel for Knights in a way, has been unlucky with injuries this year but I also don't think he did himself any favours.

In the end Essendon had no choice but to sack Knights not just because of pressure from supporters & sponsors but imagine what would have happened next year if the bombers had lost their first 3 games next year? It would have been an absolute circus again like it has been for the last couple of months and another year would have been wasted.

Ya not wrong nomore4s ... apparently the sacking was not only due to the non performance on the field but I have it on good authority that several of the players were going to put their hands up for the draft or be traded if Knights stayed on. Paddy Ryder was making noises about wanting to come back to the West. More pus to be squeezed out of this boil me thinks.

nomore4s said:

Surprisingly quiet on this thread considering the events of the last 24 hours or so.

The whole affair has been pretty poorly managed by the Bombers and I think the board has some serious questions to answer.

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Just came back from holidays Nomores.

I think the decision to let Knights go was a good one. And I think the way it was done was done well. I think the things that have been "poorly managed" were 1-3 years ago.

The problem stems from the fall out from sacking Sheedy midseason in 2007. To compound the problem, the 2 year contract extension was unnecessary. Ironically it was done to try and give Knights some "breathing space" to help him be embrace by the club's faithful.

Knights has never enjoyed the "full support" of the Essendon army. He is like the "rebound girlfriend". Yes, there has to be one but it usually never ends well and it doesn't make them a bad person.

Knights game plan may well have been a beauty, but with a list like the Bombers have it would be years before they had the experience, players and skills to make it work in my opinion. And it was all or nothing. In the end I wanted to see how the Bombers went just flooding back and chipping around the boundary line!!!

I do feel sorry for Knights because of the following:

* He carried the baggage of the Sheedy sacking
* He took over an aging side where hard decisions had to be made - eg Lloyd and Lucas
* He paid the price for years of crap recruiting/contract negotiations right back to the late 1990's to 2007.
* He was coaching a side that had possibly the weakest and inexperienced "spine" over the past 30 years (particularly 2010).
* The good players he did have, or players he wanted to develop, were often long term injured eg Gumby and Hille.

None of the above was his direct fault.

But the following can be seen as under his direction:

* His game style was too one dimensional. No plan B.
* The players skill level and fitness level did not seem to develop over his 3 year reign.
* Although hit by injuries, his selection policies rotations constantly raised eyebrows.
* After 3 years, Essendon supporters couldn't honestly say we were a better side than the one that Sheedy was given the sack for. No one can actually say that collectively the team has "come on" or "developed". Take players like Dempsey, Dyson and Winderlich. These are guys that have been treading water for some time now. In the side, out of the side, good game , poor game, bad game...repeat cycle.

The bottom line is that if Knights didn't go - there could well have been a large exiting of supporters and corporate sponsors. Sad but $$$$ talk.

Duckman

PS I will also add for what it is worth - rumour has it that Knights got the job over Hardwick primarily because in his plan and vision for the club he believed that the Bombers were a lot closer to playing finals than Hardwick's plan.

Duckman#72 said:

PS I will also add for what it is worth - rumour has it that Knights got the job over Hardwick primarily because in his plan and vision for the club he believed that the Bombers were a lot closer to playing finals than Hardwick's plan.

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This is an often overlooked aspect of the whole thing.

If Knights did indeed say the list was good enough to go somewhere with, then the poor recruiting of the last few years of the Sheedy era cannot be used as an excuse imo. Knights chose to work with it instead of clean it out and has probably paid the price. Also things like skill & fitness levels surely have to be the responsibility of the coach?

I would like to know why (eg were they injured?) players like Stewart Crameri, Jake Carlisle, Marcus Marigliani & even Kyle Hardingham didn't get games earlier in the season? While it is probably a bit early to call, all these guys showed something when given a chance.

Some hard decisions to be made on a few players imo and Knights didn't look willing to make them so it will be interesting to see if a new coach does.

Duckman#72 said:

Once again pathetic. My expectations have officially been altered today - we are bottom four without question.

2006 isn't as far behind us as we would like to think.

Of the games I've watched this weekend, I can't see a team that we are likely to beat.

Once again too many passengers, too slow, poor skills, poor decision making, lack of depth. Our backline didn't have a hope today with Hawthorn bringing it in so quickly.

I watched Collingwood play tonight - with something like 12 players who are 22 and under. At this stage you would have to say they are light years ahead of us.

We need to bring Hislop, Gumbleton and Houli very quickly.

Our team is loaded with people like Mark and Jason Johnson, Heffernan, Camporeale and Bolton. Our midfield was absolutely spanked again today. Our ruck division is almost non-existent with Hille out.

Ryder is very promising. So to is Davey and Jetta. Bradley appears to be a waste of time. Laycock seems to be worse than he was 3 years ago!!! Courtney Johns does about 3 good things a game. Lucas tries hard and Fletcher always gives his all...........but our depth is paper thin.

Take Lloyd and Hille out and we didn't look like winning. Lovatt isn't doing enough - needs much more consistency. And I'm beginning to question Mal Michaels commitment.

It's going to be a another long season. I don't even want to play Richmond because I've seen them play this year and they've been unlucky.

Duckman

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This is a post I wrote back in 2007 when the side was still under Sheeds control. If you want to know how far we've gone in 3.5 years take a read.

Some of the comments below could have been made at any number of games this year:

My expectations have officially been altered today - we are bottom four without question.

Once again too many passengers, too slow, poor skills, poor decision making, lack of depth.

I watched Collingwood play tonight - with something like 12 players who are 22 and under. At this stage you would have to say they are light years ahead of us.

Our ruck division is almost non-existent with Hille out. Laycock seems to be worse than he was 3 years ago!!!

Ryder is very promising.

Our midfield was absolutely spanked again today.

Bradley appears to be a waste of time.

It's going to be a another long season.

Some things just haven't changed - Fletcher still gives his all, Ryder is still "promising", Laycock isn't going to make it and our midfield gets consistently spanked.

Yes Collingwood is light years ahead of us and yes we are officially bottom four!!!

So sad.

Duckman

nomore4s said:

This is an often overlooked aspect of the whole thing.

If Knights did indeed say the list was good enough to go somewhere with, then the poor recruiting of the last few years of the Sheedy era cannot be used as an excuse imo. Knights chose to work with it instead of clean it out and has probably paid the price. Also things like skill & fitness levels surely have to be the responsibility of the coach?

I would like to know why (eg were they injured?) players like Stewart Crameri, Jake Carlisle, Marcus Marigliani & even Kyle Hardingham didn't get games earlier in the season? While it is probably a bit early to call, all these guys showed something when given a chance.

Some hard decisions to be made on a few players imo and Knights didn't look willing to make them so it will be interesting to see if a new coach does.

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I agree Nomores. You live by the sword then you die by it. If Knights did indeed get the job based on his accelerated path to finals football then he needs to accept that it hasn't worked. He must be wondering "what if 2009 happened in 2010?"

I think he did try to move some players on. He cleaned out Heffernan, Johnson, Solomon, Lucas, Lloyd etc but he also brought in players like Quinn, Hayden Skipworth and Williams. The wrong people.

Duckman

Any thoughts on who should be appointed the new coach from you loyal supporters?

I personally think James Hird would be a mistake, I'm not sure anyone in this day and age can walk straight into a head coaching roll in the AFL without some sort of experience in an assistants role first - have a look at Vossy and the problems the Lions are having this year, it could take them 5+ years to recover now imo.

I think Chris Scott would be a good option or even Richardson but I'm not sure he'll get a go due to being too closely tied with Knights game plan.

I'm also not sure Williams would be a good option either even though his record is pretty good, Laidley might be worth a go though as the Roos were always competitive under him even though their list wasn't very strong.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

I wonder how much the Bombers would have to throw at Paul Roos to get him to consider coaching??

I heard him on the local radio saying that everyone has their price and wouldn't rule out coaching again.

Just my

Sith1s said:

I wonder how much the Bombers would have to throw at Paul Roos to get him to consider coaching??

I heard him on the local radio saying that everyone has their price and wouldn't rule out coaching again.

Just my

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Do you think there is enough money in the world to get Roos to coach Essendon?: