Equititrust?
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You're right Kostag - any action brought outside the fund must be brought by way of a class action and that action will most probably be supported by a litigation funder. It's a lossy way to do it, but if it's the only way, there is no choice.
I'm sure the lawyer (which stands to make BIG bucks) would be contacting members via the fund's registry.
Has one of you guys (or gals) put together a letter (along with that from the lawyers) to investors advising them of this forum and other issues of concern to you?
As an aside, I wonder, is the lawyer holding its' hand out for a contribution to do the ground work?
I'm sure the lawyer (which stands to make BIG bucks) would be contacting members via the fund's registry.
Has one of you guys (or gals) put together a letter (along with that from the lawyers) to investors advising them of this forum and other issues of concern to you?
As an aside, I wonder, is the lawyer holding its' hand out for a contribution to do the ground work?
Re: Equititrust: COSTS
they will all have their hands out BUT if we extract say another $20M from somewhere etc it makes a difference of atleast another 10cents back per unit for all of us....
I say - go for it!!!
they will all have their hands out BUT if we extract say another $20M from somewhere etc it makes a difference of atleast another 10cents back per unit for all of us....
I say - go for it!!!
Sounds like Plan A to me too at this stage.
No Trust
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Class Action
There is no up front payment for the class action,its best to contact Piper Alderman for all the details though. What is recovered is split between the funder and the unit holders.
Its not a perfect situation however the funder is taking the risk in starting the action in the first place.
Essentially ASIC wont spend the money to do this. At least Piper Alderman is going for the jugular in terms of recovering assets... No one else is doing anything, so investors don't really have much choice...
There is no up front payment for the class action,its best to contact Piper Alderman for all the details though. What is recovered is split between the funder and the unit holders.
Its not a perfect situation however the funder is taking the risk in starting the action in the first place.
Essentially ASIC wont spend the money to do this. At least Piper Alderman is going for the jugular in terms of recovering assets... No one else is doing anything, so investors don't really have much choice...
No Trust
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Re: 100,000 HITS !!!!! within another 7 days - we will hit 100,000!!!!!!
You will surprised how fast we hit 200,000 once the class action commences and the "new revelations" come out over the coming weeks and months...
You will surprised how fast we hit 200,000 once the class action commences and the "new revelations" come out over the coming weeks and months...
No Trust
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The split is not necessarily 50/50 in class action proceedings. Investors are advised to speak to Piper Alderman directly to get specifics on this class action and the exact amount of percentages going either way. Piper Alderman are the only ones taking any form of action to recover losses for investors.. If there are other options I am sure investors will consider them, however Piper Alderman seem to be the ones taking charge at the moment.
PIPER ALDERMANN: going anywhere
I suspect that they may have formed a view that there is NOTHING to recover..... as unbeleivable as this may sound, I think that it is a real prospect that after 3 - 5 years widnign this shipwreck down, that there will be no recovery. You have my figures on this WEBSITE.
I suspect that unless we all commit to pay PIPER ALDERMANN upfront, that they will lose interest in this one.
Not their fault - they are not a charity.
I suspect that they may have formed a view that there is NOTHING to recover..... as unbeleivable as this may sound, I think that it is a real prospect that after 3 - 5 years widnign this shipwreck down, that there will be no recovery. You have my figures on this WEBSITE.
I suspect that unless we all commit to pay PIPER ALDERMANN upfront, that they will lose interest in this one.
Not their fault - they are not a charity.
I agree, no one's in this for charity and by its' their nature, business people (including, but limited to lawyers) are encouraged to be opportunistic.
It's one thing to allege you've been dudded, but it's altogether another thing to prove it.
Even at 26%, PA stands to made a tidy sum from recovery of your ongoing losses, as does a litigaton funder.
Can't you see how limp-wristed individual negotations/talks between investors and PA would be? Which side will have weild the sword (so to speak)?
You guys led the charge, why don't you collect investors together and work as a group?
If you get together, you'll have bargaining power and influence: as individuals you won't get any more attention than frog croaking in a distant pond.
Negotiate from a position or strength, and negotiate to win: get together and educate yourselves.
As a starter you might my contact a member from the Wellington Capital forum here at ASF and find out the terms of their class action - "Seamisty" might be a good start, since she posts on this forum.
If PA is keen to do the business, then have them get the members' registry and get a letter out from both PA and yourselves.
Keep in mind you're not the first ones in this position - please seek advise from those who went before you.
It's one thing to allege you've been dudded, but it's altogether another thing to prove it.
Even at 26%, PA stands to made a tidy sum from recovery of your ongoing losses, as does a litigaton funder.
Can't you see how limp-wristed individual negotations/talks between investors and PA would be? Which side will have weild the sword (so to speak)?
You guys led the charge, why don't you collect investors together and work as a group?
If you get together, you'll have bargaining power and influence: as individuals you won't get any more attention than frog croaking in a distant pond.
Negotiate from a position or strength, and negotiate to win: get together and educate yourselves.
As a starter you might my contact a member from the Wellington Capital forum here at ASF and find out the terms of their class action - "Seamisty" might be a good start, since she posts on this forum.
If PA is keen to do the business, then have them get the members' registry and get a letter out from both PA and yourselves.
Keep in mind you're not the first ones in this position - please seek advise from those who went before you.
No Trust
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More Assets than meet the eye
There are more assets being held by McIvor than meet the eye. I think Piper Alderman have their focus on these assets.
There are more assets being held by McIvor than meet the eye. I think Piper Alderman have their focus on these assets.
No Trust
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Loans pressure boosts Equitrust woes
Anthony Marx
The Courier-Mail
November 08 2011
SINKING FEELING: The value of frozen equity fund Equititrust is falling at the same time as pressure for it to repay bank loans increases. Picture: Tim Marsden Source: The Courier-Mail
THE value of the Equititrust Income Fund has continued to plunge as the Gold Coast fund manager faces new pressure to repay bank loans.
The frozen mortgage fund - most recently worth $160 million and in the process of being wound up - has declined to a net asset value of just $117.3 million, the company has acknowledged.
Units devalued to 78 cents earlier this year are now worth just 58 cents, with the company warning that the position could further deteriorate. Equititrust also revealed that it had received notices from Westpac and the Bank of Queensland to repay loans provided to entities associated with founder and sole owner Mark McIvor.
It is understood that Westpac is owed as much as $24 million.
The Commonwealth Bank is chasing $580,000 but has granted the Income Fund an extension to December 31 to repay the money, while National Australia Bank is owed $8.9 million.
Mr McIvor declined to comment yesterday and chairman Jeff McDermid did not return calls.
The company said its $40 million "subordinated" investment in the Income Fund had been written off and was now considered to be worthless.
Equititrust is also facing scrutiny from the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, which has alleged that the company may have breached its financial services licence because of problems with net tangible assets and the failure to lodge audited reports.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/loans-pressure-boosts-equitrust-woes/story-fn6ck2gb-1226188147411
Anthony Marx
The Courier-Mail
November 08 2011
SINKING FEELING: The value of frozen equity fund Equititrust is falling at the same time as pressure for it to repay bank loans increases. Picture: Tim Marsden Source: The Courier-Mail
THE value of the Equititrust Income Fund has continued to plunge as the Gold Coast fund manager faces new pressure to repay bank loans.
The frozen mortgage fund - most recently worth $160 million and in the process of being wound up - has declined to a net asset value of just $117.3 million, the company has acknowledged.
Units devalued to 78 cents earlier this year are now worth just 58 cents, with the company warning that the position could further deteriorate. Equititrust also revealed that it had received notices from Westpac and the Bank of Queensland to repay loans provided to entities associated with founder and sole owner Mark McIvor.
It is understood that Westpac is owed as much as $24 million.
The Commonwealth Bank is chasing $580,000 but has granted the Income Fund an extension to December 31 to repay the money, while National Australia Bank is owed $8.9 million.
Mr McIvor declined to comment yesterday and chairman Jeff McDermid did not return calls.
The company said its $40 million "subordinated" investment in the Income Fund had been written off and was now considered to be worthless.
Equititrust is also facing scrutiny from the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, which has alleged that the company may have breached its financial services licence because of problems with net tangible assets and the failure to lodge audited reports.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/loans-pressure-boosts-equitrust-woes/story-fn6ck2gb-1226188147411
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No Trust
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Bunker mentality returns
McIvor it seems has reverted to his old "Bunker Mentality" and refuses to comment on matters that actually do concern him... His loans over Equititrust and how this will impact on retiree investors...
I guess sucking your thumb in a fetal position is a better option in terms serving investors...
The contagion seems to have spread to McDermid who does not speak to the media and when revealing further losses on the company web site does not even have the courtesy to apologise... Kennedy was an idiot but as least he said sorry...
The other scenario is that they both can't speak due to the pitch of their voice from the screws being tightened on their nuts by Westpac and Bank of QLD...
Get ready guys this is just the start, there is something interesting waiting for you at the ASIC hearing on the 21st of November...
Maybe Jeff "McKermit the Frog" may want to hop away from his association with Equititrust and find another pond to swim in before the hearing...
McIvor it seems has reverted to his old "Bunker Mentality" and refuses to comment on matters that actually do concern him... His loans over Equititrust and how this will impact on retiree investors...
I guess sucking your thumb in a fetal position is a better option in terms serving investors...
The contagion seems to have spread to McDermid who does not speak to the media and when revealing further losses on the company web site does not even have the courtesy to apologise... Kennedy was an idiot but as least he said sorry...
The other scenario is that they both can't speak due to the pitch of their voice from the screws being tightened on their nuts by Westpac and Bank of QLD...
Get ready guys this is just the start, there is something interesting waiting for you at the ASIC hearing on the 21st of November...
Maybe Jeff "McKermit the Frog" may want to hop away from his association with Equititrust and find another pond to swim in before the hearing...
Re: PIPER ALDERMANN: going anywhere
I think you are spot on.
No one would act unless there is a prospect of being paid, like you say they are not a charity.
Just to be clear it appears that PA are actually looking at Equititrust Limited rather than EIF- as their website says:
"Piper Alderman continues to investigate the merits of a unit holder class action against Equititrust Limited, the responsible entity of embattled mortgage fund Equititrust Income Fund, for breaches of the Corporations Act."
I suspect that they may have formed a view that there is NOTHING to recover..... as unbeleivable as this may sound, I think that it is a real prospect that after 3 - 5 years widnign this shipwreck down, that there will be no recovery. You have my figures on this WEBSITE.
I suspect that unless we all commit to pay PIPER ALDERMANN upfront, that they will lose interest in this one.
Not their fault - they are not a charity.
I think you are spot on.
No one would act unless there is a prospect of being paid, like you say they are not a charity.
Just to be clear it appears that PA are actually looking at Equititrust Limited rather than EIF- as their website says:
"Piper Alderman continues to investigate the merits of a unit holder class action against Equititrust Limited, the responsible entity of embattled mortgage fund Equititrust Income Fund, for breaches of the Corporations Act."
Re: PIPER ALDERMANN: going anywhere
And pray tell, what chests of treasure lay buried down at Equititrust Limited to be offered up as compensation for investors' losses (even in the event a course of action is identifed)?
I try my best to caution you because you've already probably lost a lot more than you even know at this time, so this should be a time to tread slowly and NOT make rash decisions.
There are many professions in which practicioners make handsome rewards as a result of the misery of others, and the legal profession is but one of them. If PA doesn't want to do the job, there'll be others.
However, if in the end, a liquidator is appointed by the court to wind up the fund, then the liquidator, subject to available funds, will take all necessary actions on your behalf: that will be your best course of action.
There is no need for you all to bind yourselves up with something that may, in the long haul, cause more difficulties than you could possibly imagine.
I would suggest if you really want to lurch yourselves headlong into a class action, then get some independent legal advice before you do.
Remember that the manager of the fund has access to all documents - if there is evidence of use to you, that's where it will be.
And pray tell, what chests of treasure lay buried down at Equititrust Limited to be offered up as compensation for investors' losses (even in the event a course of action is identifed)?
I try my best to caution you because you've already probably lost a lot more than you even know at this time, so this should be a time to tread slowly and NOT make rash decisions.
There are many professions in which practicioners make handsome rewards as a result of the misery of others, and the legal profession is but one of them. If PA doesn't want to do the job, there'll be others.
However, if in the end, a liquidator is appointed by the court to wind up the fund, then the liquidator, subject to available funds, will take all necessary actions on your behalf: that will be your best course of action.
There is no need for you all to bind yourselves up with something that may, in the long haul, cause more difficulties than you could possibly imagine.
I would suggest if you really want to lurch yourselves headlong into a class action, then get some independent legal advice before you do.
Remember that the manager of the fund has access to all documents - if there is evidence of use to you, that's where it will be.
No Trust
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ASICK has not spoken to Piper Alderman and I suggest investors do so and get any independent advice they think fit before making a decision. Piper Alderman is on the front foot and it will not cost the investor's anything upfront. Investors do not have the money to fund a legal claim. What Piper Alderman is doing is sensible. They are first investigating the merits of the claim via the Federal Court rather than launching into a full scale assault. This costs the investors nothing. NO ONE else is doing this and this is what should be done at this Early Stage rather than waiting for a liquidator to firstly get appointed and then to get of his ass and do something. This is a proactive approach and why a lot of investors have signed up even after getting independent legal advice...
I encourage investors to speak to Piper Alderman and get all the facts before making a decision...
I encourage investors to speak to Piper Alderman and get all the facts before making a decision...
No Trust, I most certainly have not spoken to PA since I'm not a unitholder in your fund.
You might speak to members of the PIF (as I suggested) about what happens when a class action commences and a fund manager wants to get into the act on behalf of the fund. I really don't think anyone in the PIF knows what the outcome will be.
You'll all be aware that it'll cost about 26% of recoveries (maybe increasing with time) to join a class action - the litigation funder is also entitled to recovered costs.
If a liquidator brings the action the costs will be substantially less but there's no insurance against loss - however with proper litigation management, lost costs can be mitigated. Further, the fund will be entitled to recover costs.
If a liquidator takes over the fund, the liquidator is entitled to commence proceedings for losses suffered by the fund (not the members of the fund per se).
I can undersand PA wanting to get into the act, there might be a bag of money in it for them, but remember if you sign up for the deal with a class action you may will find yourself limiting your rights elsewhere.
I think members should wait should wait until you find out what is happening within the management of your fund and further get independent advice about the pros and cons of even talking to the class action lawyer: it could be the case that members will not be able to opt out of the class action once signed up to it.
There are only my opinions tendered in good faith.
You might speak to members of the PIF (as I suggested) about what happens when a class action commences and a fund manager wants to get into the act on behalf of the fund. I really don't think anyone in the PIF knows what the outcome will be.
You'll all be aware that it'll cost about 26% of recoveries (maybe increasing with time) to join a class action - the litigation funder is also entitled to recovered costs.
If a liquidator brings the action the costs will be substantially less but there's no insurance against loss - however with proper litigation management, lost costs can be mitigated. Further, the fund will be entitled to recover costs.
If a liquidator takes over the fund, the liquidator is entitled to commence proceedings for losses suffered by the fund (not the members of the fund per se).
I can undersand PA wanting to get into the act, there might be a bag of money in it for them, but remember if you sign up for the deal with a class action you may will find yourself limiting your rights elsewhere.
I think members should wait should wait until you find out what is happening within the management of your fund and further get independent advice about the pros and cons of even talking to the class action lawyer: it could be the case that members will not be able to opt out of the class action once signed up to it.
There are only my opinions tendered in good faith.
A LAWYER'S NIRVANA !!!!
Let’s deal with some brutal facts:-
1. Taking a 3-5 year windup view, the EIF will be virtually NIL. The Premium wholesale fund which the Board themselves now write down to 14 cents per dollar Unit and which the delusional McIvor still rants about backing into some ASX shell is almost already a complete write off. The ONLY hope of any recovery is whatever the Directors have been able to squirrel away and I suspect that Piper Alderman have now formed that view.
2. Litigation: now this baby is like a festering sore - waiting to ‘explode’ as it were. Tucker - rightly or wrongly - jumped ship, but he has a handle on these matters. So what do the Board do? Ladle these matters out to new lawyers who will charge a fortune to get up to speed? More losses.
But how many matters does this ‘basket case’ Equititrust have on the go? Well, lets rely on the all research that we have done; Court lists; email gossip etc.
It’s quite a list:-
1. Lazar’s wife, Viktoria
2. Shirley Hayes
3. Papdopoulos – bankruptcy
4. Resort Corp matters
5. Samtay GroupManttan - recovery matter
6. Summer Hill Estate
7. Phil Franks
8. GAMP Developments
9. Willaire Pty Ltd
10. Kristo Demain
11. R M Walsh Holdings
12. Checkling Pty Ltd
13. Quinlivan Group
14. Rural Security Holdings
15. Graham Hayes
16. Harry Katsakas - 16 Queensland Ave, Broadbeach
17. Claims by BOSIAL
18. Claims by Westpac
19. Claims by National Bank
20. Corymbia Estates - suing the Valuers
21. Capital Finance dispute
22. ASIC - Federal Court
23. Lazar - Federal Court
24. Cosmos Properties
25. Crackers Corporation - Jarrod McCracken
26. Michael Mantton
27. Meridian Marinas
28. Cavallo Trading
29. Johannah Quinlivan – insurance matter
30. Rosea Pty Ltd
31. Winsor Turf Pty Ltd
32. Cameron David
33. Filmlock Pty Ltd
34. ICA Toowoomba Foundry Pty Ltd
35. SLIM Pty Limited
36. GS and GB Nominees Pty Ltd
37. A & T Promotions Pty Ltd
38. Action against MM Holdings Pty Ltd and Mark McIvor
3. Finally in the next 7-10days expect some big announcement. I don’t think that it will be in reality good news BUT something big is going to break. Watch this web site.
4. The Insolvency industry around Sydney are all fighting their way into Piper Alderman’s door to somehow get the job of Liquidator. That is where the money is, I am afraid. No-one is talking seriously now about any recovery for anyone. That is fact.
Let’s deal with some brutal facts:-
1. Taking a 3-5 year windup view, the EIF will be virtually NIL. The Premium wholesale fund which the Board themselves now write down to 14 cents per dollar Unit and which the delusional McIvor still rants about backing into some ASX shell is almost already a complete write off. The ONLY hope of any recovery is whatever the Directors have been able to squirrel away and I suspect that Piper Alderman have now formed that view.
2. Litigation: now this baby is like a festering sore - waiting to ‘explode’ as it were. Tucker - rightly or wrongly - jumped ship, but he has a handle on these matters. So what do the Board do? Ladle these matters out to new lawyers who will charge a fortune to get up to speed? More losses.
But how many matters does this ‘basket case’ Equititrust have on the go? Well, lets rely on the all research that we have done; Court lists; email gossip etc.
It’s quite a list:-
1. Lazar’s wife, Viktoria
2. Shirley Hayes
3. Papdopoulos – bankruptcy
4. Resort Corp matters
5. Samtay GroupManttan - recovery matter
6. Summer Hill Estate
7. Phil Franks
8. GAMP Developments
9. Willaire Pty Ltd
10. Kristo Demain
11. R M Walsh Holdings
12. Checkling Pty Ltd
13. Quinlivan Group
14. Rural Security Holdings
15. Graham Hayes
16. Harry Katsakas - 16 Queensland Ave, Broadbeach
17. Claims by BOSIAL
18. Claims by Westpac
19. Claims by National Bank
20. Corymbia Estates - suing the Valuers
21. Capital Finance dispute
22. ASIC - Federal Court
23. Lazar - Federal Court
24. Cosmos Properties
25. Crackers Corporation - Jarrod McCracken
26. Michael Mantton
27. Meridian Marinas
28. Cavallo Trading
29. Johannah Quinlivan – insurance matter
30. Rosea Pty Ltd
31. Winsor Turf Pty Ltd
32. Cameron David
33. Filmlock Pty Ltd
34. ICA Toowoomba Foundry Pty Ltd
35. SLIM Pty Limited
36. GS and GB Nominees Pty Ltd
37. A & T Promotions Pty Ltd
38. Action against MM Holdings Pty Ltd and Mark McIvor
3. Finally in the next 7-10days expect some big announcement. I don’t think that it will be in reality good news BUT something big is going to break. Watch this web site.
4. The Insolvency industry around Sydney are all fighting their way into Piper Alderman’s door to somehow get the job of Liquidator. That is where the money is, I am afraid. No-one is talking seriously now about any recovery for anyone. That is fact.
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