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Elon Musk

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Wysiwyg said:
Watched the shows on the weekend. Speed isn't important. Tesla should be putting 1000km range batteries in their mass production vehicles. .
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For 99% of people, a 1000Km range battery would add significant cost for no benefit.

not many people regularly drive that distance with out stopping to stretch the legs, use the toilet and have some lunch. So having a smaller eg cheaper and lighter battery with say a 500 km range is more practical, and on the day you do that 1000km road trip you just charge up during you break.

on road trips, by the time I have gone to the toilet myself, given my dog a toilet break and some water, bought some lunch etc, I would have easily given the car 25 - 30 mins charge, and that allows about 250 kms of driving.

if I started with 480kms of range, and added 250 after my first break, I am already at 730 km's range, and by then probably ready for another break, which would push me to near the 1000km range.

So charging during your natural drive/rest cycle, means you don't need a super high capacity battery, even for road trips.
 
Gringotts Bank said:
I heard yesterday that Teslas don't need servicing. Very occasional brake pad replacement, and tire switching, that's all. Quite incredible.

The best thing about Musk is he doesn't look to big oil and try to impress, appease or suck up to them. He just smashes them out of the ball park. Complete obliteration.
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Tesla cars with tyres don't need the usual tyre changes now?

All cars need servicing. If not the oil filters, the gear boxes then it's the electronic components.

Cars with sensors and fine instrumentation... it'll pretty much be a write off if you get into any kind of accident.

It's like dropping your smart phone. The old brick phones you can just throw around, the new smart phones you need covers and protection... and if your kids get their hands on it, my 4months old Samsung got a cracked screen and it'll cost $540 to replace.

So while Tesla owners, like all owners of pricey cars, would take great care of it. Any minor dent or scratches and it'll be tears and wallet pain.

Not to mention insurance premiums will have to rise for the rest of us fossils once enough, but not enough, EVs are out there. The calculus will have to be... what if this cheap Suzuki hit a $50,000 Tesla/EV that'll cost us insurer $30,000 to fix the back bumper.
 
luutzu said:
Not to mention insurance premiums will have to rise for the rest of us fossils once enough, but not enough, EVs are out there. The calculus will have to be... what if this cheap Suzuki hit a $50,000 Tesla/EV that'll cost us insurer $30,000 to fix the back bumper.
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Warren Buffett, perhaps the worlds largest owner of insurance companies, Says driverless vehicles and advanced autonomous safety features are a threat to his vehicle insurance business and will drive down premiums over time.



Tesla is also working with insurance companies to give Tesla owners premiums that are cheaper than average, as the recognise the decreased number of accidents.

 
Value Collector said:
For 99% of people, a 1000Km range battery would add significant cost for no benefit.
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I would prefer not having to charge often. We are conditioned to around 500km per tank of guzzolene. Yes the cost for range could be a telling factor keeping the average at 500 km per charge just like the ICE's. Musk is setting the benchmarks and has shown 1000km is possible but only for those who can afford it. Battery life and thus having to replace it at a cost isn't mentioned much. From Ergon here in Australia, my bold ...

Battery life expectancy

Batteries wear out and a replacement battery will eventually be needed. Most car manufacturers guarantee their batteries for around 8 years. Nissan guarantee their batteries against defects for 8 years or 160,000km and capacity loss for 5 years or 96,500km (whichever occurs earlier). 4

Australians drive an average of 15,000km per year, so an EV owner will expect to replace the batteries about every 7 years. 4

To help with replacement costs, vehicle manufactures are coming up with affordable battery replacement plans. Check with your car dealership for details.

4. Source – Other Vehicle Cost Factors on website http://myelectriccar.com.au/calculator/
 
Value Collector said:
Warren Buffett, perhaps the worlds largest owner of insurance companies, Says driverless vehicles and advanced autonomous safety features are a threat to his vehicle insurance business and will drive down premiums over time.



Tesla is also working with insurance companies to give Tesla owners premiums that are cheaper than average, as the recognise the decreased number of accidents.

Click to expand...


And we should trust an insurance guy on that, why?

All smart insurers insure things that hardly ever need a payout. So a smart, driverless, fully automated car with cameras and GPS and all the things an insurer need to not pay you... It should honestly drive down the premium as Buffett says, BUT...

But the costs insurers would have to pay, real or imagined, from non-Smart cars crashing into expensive smart cars. That's a pretty reasonable ground to jack up premiums I'd say.

I don't think Tesla is going to win this EV race though. They seem to be following the Apple model and want all the profit all to themselves. They better learn how to share... that will get the costs down for consumers and get more support from third parties wanting a piece of the action.
 
Gringotts Bank said:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1087086_tesla-model-s-maintenance-almost-none-required-actually
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That's not true.

No carmakers, Tesla included, especially Tesla actually, could afford to not make money from repair and/or maintenance.

In just about all cases, that's the only place where they do make their money, real money.

So while a Tesla/EVs might not need oil change or mechanical gear and oily moving parts, there will be repair and maintenance on the electronics and other smart stuff, like a way too smart car key I saw in some YT videos.

So if you bump into a curb or a pole, with all them cameras and sensors... you're not going to just turn up to a wreckers and find yourself a spare one. You can't just fit it on at your local repair shop.. .and that's if Tesla permit you to do it without voiding any guarantee.
 
Wysiwyg said:
I would prefer not having to charge often. We are conditioned to around 500km per tank of guzzolene. Yes the cost for range could be a telling factor keeping the average at 500 km per charge just like the ICE's. Musk is setting the benchmarks and has shown 1000km is possible but only for those who can afford it. Battery life and thus having to replace it at a cost isn't mentioned much. From Ergon here in Australia, my bold ...

Battery life expectancy

Batteries wear out and a replacement battery will eventually be needed. Most car manufacturers guarantee their batteries for around 8 years. Nissan guarantee their batteries against defects for 8 years or 160,000km and capacity loss for 5 years or 96,500km (whichever occurs earlier). 4

Australians drive an average of 15,000km per year, so an EV owner will expect to replace the batteries about every 7 years. 4

To help with replacement costs, vehicle manufactures are coming up with affordable battery replacement plans. Check with your car dealership for details.

4. Source – Other Vehicle Cost Factors on website http://myelectriccar.com.au/calculator/
Click to expand...
You won't worry about charging often when it's just a matter of plugging it in at home.

Also I don't think replacement batteries will be a thing, the batteries will out last the car, the early tesla's have proved to be really well engineered, and they have since had chemistry improvements, and if your car is going to be built in a year from now it will Be better than the batteries being installed today.
 
luutzu said:
And we should trust an insurance guy on that, why?

All smart insurers insure things that hardly ever need a payout. So a smart, driverless, fully automated car with cameras and GPS and all the things an insurer need to not pay you... It should honestly drive down the premium as Buffett says, BUT...

But the costs insurers would have to pay, real or imagined, from non-Smart cars crashing into expensive smart cars. That's a pretty reasonable ground to jack up premiums I'd say.

I don't think Tesla is going to win this EV race though. They seem to be following the Apple model and want all the profit all to themselves. They better learn how to share... that will get the costs down for consumers and get more support from third parties wanting a piece of the action.
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Teslas auto pilot can also reduce the number of times other cars crash into you.

But if you know anything about auto insurance, you would know that as a whole the industry operates at about break even, so a reduction in claims being paid out over time would very quickly cause insurance premiums to drop due to competition.
 
Value Collector said:
Teslas auto pilot can also reduce the number of times other cars crash into you.

But if you know anything about auto insurance, you would know that as a whole the industry operates at about break even, so a reduction in claims being paid out over time would very quickly cause insurance premiums to drop due to competition.
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How? You're not going to tell me it has a force field or transform into bumble bee are you?

Seriously though, Tesla does look and sound very impressive. If I have the cash, it'd be in my carport already :D Since I don't, this is (possibly) what sour grapes look like.

I remember reading Buffett on insurance... pretty sure he said insurance is profitable beyond the investment powress from its float. And I can see that once or twice when I was at fault and have to pay $800 "excess" to claim insurance on a bumper. Not sure how a bumper costs something plus $800 on top, but there it was, no profit for the insurer at all.
 
Value Collector said:
Also I don't think replacement batteries will be a thing, the batteries will out last the car, the early tesla's have proved to be really well engineered, and they have since had chemistry improvements, and if your car is going to be built in a year from now it will Be better than the batteries being installed today.
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Of course all would prefer longer than 7 year battery life and assume battery life and recycling will improve as competition for consumer rises. At the beginning of this transition so around Tesla Model 5 should be getting closer to (my preferenced) ideal.
 
Wysiwyg said:
Of course all would prefer longer than 7 year battery life and assume battery life and recycling will improve as competition for consumer rises. At the beginning of this transition so around Tesla Model 5 should be getting closer to (my preferenced) ideal.
Click to expand...

It's not an issue you should even worry about today, battery life will be about 80% after 1 million Km's.

It's really discussing engine life in a petrol car, is not something worth talking about for an average user.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...e-80-percent-capacity-840km-1-million-km/amp/
 
luutzu said:
How? You're not going to tell me it has a force field or transform into bumble bee are you?

Seriously though, Tesla does look and sound very impressive. If I have the cash, it'd be in my carport already :D Since I don't, this is (possibly) what sour grapes look like.

I remember reading Buffett on insurance... pretty sure he said insurance is profitable beyond the investment powress from its float. And I can see that once or twice when I was at fault and have to pay $800 "excess" to claim insurance on a bumper. Not sure how a bumper costs something plus $800 on top, but there it was, no profit for the insurer at all.
Click to expand...

I will upload a video later showing tesla autopilot avoiding being hit by other cars.

In a lot of cases insurance is only profitable because of investment returns on float.

Most insurance companies use 100% or more of the premiums collected paying out claims, and if claims reduce premiums would reduce due to competition,

Companies like Berkshire want to hold float, they don't mind having an insurance operation that breaks even if it means they can hold billions in float.

So if they can reduce prices to help secure an extra $1 billion in float they will.

Berkshire also has insurance contracts that are guaranteed to be loss making, but due to the long time frames should make investment profits on the float, e.g. They collect $100 million today, but will have to pay out $150 Million over 20 years to asbestos victims and widows.

They work out exactly what the breakeven mark or loss will be on a contract and then price the contract competitively, in a world with less car crashes insurance companies will compete the price down.
 

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