Electrical advice

[visual]

Consumer affairs,
contacted me apparently because machine is now out of warranty I have to take this matter to Vcat
Asko still has my washing machine ,suppose their loan has now become my washing machine so I payed 1600 dollars for a second hand machine thats about 15 years old.
Asko sucks Harvey Norman are thieves and as consumers apparently we all need to have lawyers at our beck and call.

 

[Julia]

Consumer affairs,
contacted me apparently because machine is now out of warranty I have to take this matter to Vcat
Asko still has my washing machine ,suppose their loan has now become my washing machine so I payed 1600 dollars for a second hand machine thats about 15 years old.
Asko sucks Harvey Norman are thieves and as consumers apparently we all need to have lawyers at our beck and call.

Visual

Commiserations. That is just awful. What is Vcat?

Julia

 

[Mumbank]

I've had a F&P with computerised panel for 7 years now. It died in the first 24 months so was covered by extended warranty included in because bought on DJs card. Hasn't missed a beat since and have 3 sporting kids so it gets a workout.

My advice to anyone buying a w/m (or any electrical appliance really) is pay for the extended warranty - its worth it - a call out alone is now $100 easily plus $45 odd for 1st 1/2 hour!!!!

 

[visual]

vcat,is the small claims tribunal
which will mean paying a fee to see what can be done otherwise my only recourse seems to be legal advice which obviously will outstrip the cost of the machine.So much for consumer affairs seems that because the machine is out of warranty they are now not in breach of the law and I have to go through this process to perhaps get my machine back.So all this time wasting has been done with the full knowledge that eventually they would be in the clear.However I will take this as far as I can.
Otherwise as I said the loan machine has turned into a very expensive second hand item. ASKO as I said sucks and Harvey Norman will never again see one cent of my money for as long as I live.

 

[visual]

I've had a F&P with computerised panel for 7 years now. It died in the first 24 months so was covered by extended warranty included in because bought on DJs card. Hasn't missed a beat since and have 3 sporting kids so it gets a workout.

My advice to anyone buying a w/m (or any electrical appliance really) is pay for the extended warranty - its worth it - a call out alone is now $100 easily plus $45 odd for 1st 1/2 hour!!!!

Mumbank,
the Asko came with 3 years warranty,which by the way the way they failed to inform me about,apparently the three years kicked in for machines bought after april 2000.Bought mine in May.Found this out from their website.When they tried to charge me for a service call and a faulty part,that in fact wasnt faulty at all.Agree with you however about the extended warranty,however in my wildest nightmare I never imagined that this situation could ever get to this stage ,previously had a simpson that never missed a beat in 14years so the extended warranty wouldnt been part of my plan based on that experience.I think the main problem is that ASKO is just a very unreliable company and Harvey Norman a good partner for them.

 

[Mumbank]

I definitely agree with you about Hardly Normal, I banned them long ago. Sad though for you that Asko are so slack. Good luck.

 

[visual]

Hardly Normal.

Mumbank love it,I`m keeping it.Thanks :

 

[Prospector]

Oh, after reading your saga I am going to give my 8 year old F&P a big hug so it keeps on working! I have read on a few forums that Hardly Normal has appalling customer service in all of its areas.


Julia, our pool has a timer setting that lets you program the time that you have the filter on. I guess it is too late for you now but maybe next time?

In SA we can only use 'cheap power' (what an oxymoron) for our water heater! Our electriticity bill is disgusting!

 

[visual]

Late this morning did what i`ve been threathening to do for a while,went into hardly normal ,with a loud voice announced that i wanted to speak to the manager about my w/m ,
about two minutes ago asko phoned ,my machine is ready for delivery.
now will it work that is the question. :swear:

 

[Mumbank]

Well done Visual, you obviously didn't have that same wide eyed innocent look of your avatar!!!

Lets hope your w/m gives you many years of faithful service!!!

 

[visual]

Mumbank,you`re right ,I wore a red top ,ugly look and straight back.

And for the faithful service I very much doubt that i will get that,but through this discussion f/p seems to come up as being very reliable so next that will be my choice.so wish me luck.

 

[Julia]

Oh, after reading your saga I am going to give my 8 year old F&P a big hug so it keeps on working! I have read on a few forums that Hardly Normal has appalling customer service in all of its areas.


Julia, our pool has a timer setting that lets you program the time that you have the filter on. I guess it is too late for you now but maybe next time?

In SA we can only use 'cheap power' (what an oxymoron) for our water heater! Our electriticity bill is disgusting!

Hi Prospector

Yes, I have a pooltimer also. It is connected to the odinary tariff to work as at present. If the whole pool operation is moved onto so called ultra cheap tariff then because there is no supply connected for about 4 hours per day it renders the timer useless. Alternative appears to be buying another special pool timer at about another $400 to overcome the problem. Adding this to electrician's fees, then Ergon changing the charges on all tariffs about two months after I began my enquiries, has resulted in my forgetting the whole idea. Then when the electricity supply is thrown open to competition fairly soon who knows what tariffs will apply to what. So I've just decided to pay the extra for running the heat pump during the winter (and in reverse in exceptionally hot weather to cool the water) .

Thanks for the suggestion.

Could you comment on the privatisation of the power supply in SA?
I gather it has been less than satisfactory from consumers' point of view?

Julia

Yes

 

[Smurf1976]

Hi Prospector

Yes, I have a pooltimer also. It is connected to the odinary tariff to work as at present. If the whole pool operation is moved onto so called ultra cheap tariff then because there is no supply connected for about 4 hours per day it renders the timer useless. Alternative appears to be buying another special pool timer at about another $400 to overcome the problem. Adding this to electrician's fees, then Ergon changing the charges on all tariffs about two months after I began my enquiries, has resulted in my forgetting the whole idea. Then when the electricity supply is thrown open to competition fairly soon who knows what tariffs will apply to what. So I've just decided to pay the extra for running the heat pump during the winter (and in reverse in exceptionally hot weather to cool the water) .
Yes

If it were me, then I would just rely on the internal rechargeable battery backup in the timer to keep it running when the power is off. Should last about 10 years before the battery dies. That said, I don't have any labour costs for electrical work so am a bit biased here...

A possible solution for those in SA...

This is going to look like a bit of a ramp, but since Aurora isn't a listed company (100% owned by the State of Tasmania) I shouldn't get in too much trouble. For the record, I'm NOT employed by Aurora. Please note that this is for household power only, not commercial customers (though no problem if you just work from a home office as long as you are still classified as a residential electricity customer). For the technically minded, APAYG is for single phase power supply (which most homes have) only.

You CAN get cheaper electricity for EVERYTHING in the house, even the computer and fish tank (and everything else) if you switch to Aurora Pay As You Go (APAYG) instead of your conventional electricity retailer. Note that this is available in SA and Tas only at this stage.

Except for off-peak hot water, you will NOT have the supply interrupted to your appliances when it's more expensive (just use your own timer) so no costs for extra wiring etc and no need to get an electrician if it either plugs in (just use a plug-in timer) or already has a timer fitted.

The benefit is time of use pricing that applies to ALL your electricity consumption, not just hot water. Another benefit is that you NEVER get a power bill. The downside? At certain times the rate charged is higher than the conventional "flat" rate and you need to "pay as you go".

It works like this. Aurora arranges for the removal of your existing electricity meters and installs one APAYG meter in place of them. You are issued with a "smart" card, physically the size of a credit card. You then take the card to Aurora's outlets (various non-electricity retail stores eg newsagents) and hand over any amount (cash) you choose. This credit is transferred (in full) to the smart card. Then you put the card in the meter, the credit is transferred to the meter and you take the card back out. Simpler than it sounds as long as it's convenient for you to get to one of Aurora's APAYG outlets and it's not too hard to get to where your meters are.

You can check how much credit you have at any time (displayed in $) just by looking at the screen on the meter and can "recharge" with any amount you like up to $100 and at any time. If you do run out of credit, the meter will switch the power off BUT it's programmed not to do this at inconvenient times such as weekends, middle of the night etc. And there's emergency credit (just push the button) if you need it (no interest or charges on the credit, it's just paid back when you recharge the card).

Your electricity will be EXACTLY the same with APAYG apart from the means of paying for it. Same power, same wires down the street etc.

You can find out more, what the actual rates are, where to recharge the card etc at www.apayg.com.au

There is a one-off $55 fee to install APAYG (covers everything, you DON'T have to get an electrician - Aurora will do this and your $55 covers everything).

If you change your mind and want to go back to "conventional" electricity bills and charging then you can do so within 3 months free of charge (though you will not be refunded your $55 one-off fee). After 3 months, a $55 exit charge applies to pay for reinstalling conventional meters. That said, Aurora claims that well over 90% (about 98% from memory) stay permanently with the system.

Note that Aurora owns the meter and is responsible for keeping it working (so you don't pay if something goes wrong).

Would you actually save money? It depends on how much electricity you use, what you pay for it now, and most importantly WHEN you use it. If you have enough loads such as swimming pool pumps etc that you can shift to the cheaper times then you will save. It's cheaper at night and on weekends. Also it's cheaper in Winter than Summer.

APAYG is available in Tasmania (has been since 1995 and it's quite popular) and in SA only. Not available in the other states (so far). NOTE THAT DIFFERENT RATES APPLY TO TAS AND SA - make sure you are looking at the correct rates! And I strongly suggest you do your own calculations with reference to how much power you actually use (post questions on this thread if you don't know how... )

www.apayg.com.au if you're in SA
www.auroraenergy.com.au is the Aurora home page (relevant for those in Tas wanting APAYG (click on "for home") or those elsewhere who just want to know more about the company).

 

[Prospector]

Could you comment on the privatisation of the power supply in SA?
I gather it has been less than satisfactory from consumers' point of view?

Julia

Sometimes it just gets too hard and you get so tired of

I am not sure the privatisation is the real issue, but more that no-one wants to spend the money on the infrastructure to ensure that supplies are maintained - because that is never a short term voter issue!

And because the sell off was completed before the current Labor Government came to power, they use privatisation as the excuse for all evils! Yet they continually ignore that they need to increase the staffing of the entity that services the power lines. We had a major major blackout a few months ago, and when you rang the call centre, IF YOU GOT THRU, then the recorded message said that Batman (or similar person) "had left the building" - much like the ending of Frasier. And then the call terminated! People were totally furious!

During our recent heat wave (5 days of 40+ heat) people in the middle of Adelaide were left without power for 36 hours. Can you imagine that - no refrigeration, shops without power etc etc! And the only reason being that power installations had melted and there was not enough staff to make the repairs.

The Govt made a bid deal out of giving compensation cheques to some people who had suffered the power loss. The next day people were ringing up and saying that they were waiting for their compensation cheques from six months earlier! :swear:

So not only do we have very expensive power, it is also unreliable! And Jack blames John who blames Robert who blames Jill..........and so we never actually fix the issue!

So, not happy Jan

 

[Julia]

Late this morning did what i`ve been threathening to do for a while,went into hardly normal ,with a loud voice announced that i wanted to speak to the manager about my w/m ,
about two minutes ago asko phoned ,my machine is ready for delivery.
now will it work that is the question. :swear:

Well, what have we all learned from this? Answer: it doesn't pay to be polite, courteous, or patient. You only got results, Visual, when you became threatening and even aggressive. Sad, isn't it.

Before you all get too much in love with your F&P machines, my new F&P washing machine (less than 2 months old ) refused to complete the spin cycle a week ago. It was slightly less than a full load, but I set it for a full load. Eventually had to cart the dripping sheets out and put on the line, at which stage the remainder - towels etc - did spin normally. I'll give it another go before I start squawking but if the same happens again, I won't be too backward in expressing my feelings.

Julia

 

[Smurf1976]

SA power. (Be warned that this is a somewhat technical post. MW = Megawatt - 1 million Watts or enough to run about 7500 computers or 800 vacuum cleaners. )

The fundamental problem in SA is twofold. One with distribution (the poles and wires), the other with generation.

With distribution the underlying problem is one of insufficient investment to provide adequate capacity in the network. SA power demand is VERY peaky with huge spikes when it's hot (fairly common in Adelaide...). Much of the system simply wasn't designed to cope with this and was in fact designed around a WINTER peak rather than a Summer one.

In short, it's not economic to upgrade the system under present regulatory rules. This partly relates to the separation of generation, transmission, distribution and retail. The distributor has no real incentive to keep the power on when they're not losing much from lost load - the generators and retailers are largely copping that. So competition is partly to blame here.

As a consumer, the only real thing you can do to influence this (apart from lobbying politicians) is to even out your power demand. Regardless of the actual rate you pay, switching off pool pumps etc. when it's very hot and running them at off-peak times will help the system technically. Another thing is to use MORE electricity at off-peak times. I don't mean blatant waste, but if everyone in SA used their air-conditioners for heating during Winter (believe it or not, air-conditioning is popular in Tas solely for use in Winter since it's a very cheap means of heating with many never turning it on during Summer) then that would help the economics of distribution (and it's actually more efficient than gas anyway from a technical perspective) since revenue to the distributor should increase without placing any real stress on the network. Either that funds upgrades or leads to lower unit prices for electricity via the regulatory process. And certainly don't be using continuous (non off-peak) electricity for hot water if you can avoid it for both technical and (yours as well as the distributor's) economic reasons.

Generation.

Fundamentally the SA industry has inbuilt high costs due to heavy reliance on gas. Competition has encouraged the building of HIGH cost generation plant (sorry economic theorists but it's not working...) rather than low cost plant. This is continuing to build in ongoing high costs for decades to come. Another problem is that the market (as opposed to central planning under the old ETSA) encourages the unnecessary running of high cost plant when lower cost plant could meet demand (off-peak times and days - most of the time). This both wastes resources (impacting the environment) and adds unnecessary costs.

What would I have done?

The Hallet and Pelican Point and Quarantine gas-fired plants and the Lonsdale diesel power station shouldn't have been built IMO. It would have made a LOT more sense to instead redevelop 3 (of 4) units at Torrens Island A power station into a combined-cycle gas turbine plant. This would have marginal operating costs around $20/MWh instead of about $30 for the Torrens Island plant as it is and around $50 for Hallet (Pelican Point has some low cost capacity but in the true spirit of competition (take note economists) it sits idle while higher cost plant is run. A true waste of gas and higher prices are the result.

I would also have looked very hard at converting Torrens Island B power station to dual fuel coal/gas firing. Despite the location (metropolitan Adelaide), I do believe that coal could be used acceptably there with proper emission controls. The site isn't perfect but it's not bad judging from what I've seen of it. Two (of 4) units at that plant are particularly suitable for coal conversion and indeed this was contemplated at the time of construction.

Doing this would have given SA a large source of cheap baseload electricity which it presently lacks. Costs would still be higher than the Eastern states, but by only a modest amount versus literally double at present.

So, you would have about 1780 MW of low cost plant at Torrens Island (around $20 / MWh marginal cost), one remaining 120 MW unit as is (around $30) with operation at full capacity of two of the B station units (only when demand is highest) to get the last 100 MW coming in at around $25. (For techical reasons the B station units would still use some gas to reach full capacity but this wouldn't be necessary more than 90% of the time).

Total plant capacity would be 2000 MW versus 1280 MW at present. Deduct the Quarantine, Pelican Point, Lonsdale and Hallet plants that I wouldn't have built and overall it's about the same capacity.

Add in the existing coal-fired plant at Port Augusta (Northern (520 MW) and Playford B (240 MW) power stations) and you would have a total installed low cost plant of 2540 MW versus about half that now. This would meet virtually all SA power demand except during the hottest weather. Under most conditions the plant would be competitive intermediate load generation with SA exporting cheap power to Victoria during a typical business day thus lowering prices there as well (with some impact in NSW and Tas (minimal in Qld) too).

The other thing that should (still could) happen is to change the status of the Murraylink Vic-SA interconnector to a regulated interconnector. At present it operates below capacity (forcing up SA prices) as a profit making venture. The change of status would involve the owner simply being paid a flat fee for their service (as with other transmission lines) and actual power flows no longer being restricted by the profit motive. The Directlink interconnector (Qld-NSW) has just undergone such a change.

This way virtually all power in SA would be supplied by either local low cost plant at higher fuel efficiency than at present (environment benefits) or imports from Victoria. The SA wholesale power price would then be similar to that elsewhere and you would have a system with genuinely viable long-term power plants rather than the present patchwork of outdated, inefficient plant using high cost fuels.

All this could have been done and would have fitted very nicely with the technically driven focus of state-owned suppliers. Unfortunately it doesn't fit with the profit motive of competing private owners who prefer to relocate seccond hand plant from overseas rather than commit to the long term supply of electricity.

At the time of posting, wholesale electricity prices are about $29 in SA, $19 in Vic, $17 in NSW and $14 in Qld. SA power demand is 1423 MW with 536 MW being imported from Vic and the rest from local generation. Enough said really...

On a positive note, the high prices in SA have enabled Hydro Tasmania to commence operations in SA (they're also doing things in China, India and various other countries too) at a good profit. Nothing stopped the other states from doing much the same but they grabbed the quick cash of privatisation instead. Now it's pay, pay and pay again. But they haven't learnt and are going to repeat the mistakes with privatisation of the Snowy Hydro. Rather than selling it, IMO it would make more sense to increase the rainfall (there's a proven method for doing this which has been used in Tas for the past 40 years) and thus put more water in the Murray to help the environment whilst increasing clean power generation, thus leading to lower greenhouse gas emissions. That sounds too much like a good idea though...

 

[visual]

Before you all get too much in love with your F&P machines, my new F&P washing machine (less than 2 months old ) refused to complete the spin cycle a week ago. .

Julia

Oh Julia,
I wish you luck but dont let it go too long,obviously whatever these morons changed in the manufacturing process still hasnt been changed back,as I learned with Asko they know very well that once the machine goes out of waranty they are in the clear.It must be a lot cheaper for them to stick to the kind of manufacturing that they are obviously sticking to.Whatever excuse they give you just ask for a replacement as this looks like the only way to force change.
By the way it was a smaller retailer who advised me to go in and make a fuss in the actual shop as the manufacturer would then be under pressure by the people who sell their products and would have to do something about it.
Of course a bigger retailer shouldnt need a screaming costumer to do that because they sell enough product to actually be the first to know about these problems due to the quantity that they sell ,unfortunately though as I said the price of manufacturing must be a hell of a lot less ,so they stick with it.
Which makes me think that there must be lots of people who just put up with this rubbish for them to continue in their merry way.
Best of luck.

 

[bunyip]

Money Tree

Does leaving your computer on really cost 30c an hour (or 40c if you leave the monitor on as well)?
And does this apply to laptops too?
Seems like a heck of a lot to me.

Between my kids and myself we keep our two computers - a laptop and a desktop - running close to 24 hours a day. The kids rarely switch off the computer after completing homework or whatever, and its never really concerned me because I always believed that computers use very little power.

Although my power bill is fairly hefty, (pool, air cons, bore etc), its not big enough to suggest that my computers chew up 30 to 40c an hour per unit in power costs.

I'm really interested in finding out just how much it really does cost to run a computer. If its quite expensive then I could possibly save myself a heap of loot by being more dilligent in turning mine off when they're not in use.

Cheers
Bunyip

 

[Happy]

I thought that 200 W for computer would be most one can expect and that’s including 19” LCD monitor.

As to Laptop especially new ones that are designed to save on power, I would think ¼ of the first one.

So both would consume 1KW per 4 hours, making it more like 30 to 50 cents a day (24hours).


I thought that, but now not sure.

 

[Smurf1976]

A computer with 17" monitor draws about 130 W.

Left running for a year it will use 1.14 MWh which will cost $110 - $300 depending on your power supply arrangements. Typically about $170.

If you have air-conditioning then you will need to add in the cost of the extra load placed on that from the computer being switched on. That would 30 to 50% to the overall computer energy use.

HOWEVER cost is absolutely a trivial issue here...

Monitors are a known fire hazard and a common cause of building fires. It never ceases to amaze me that people worry about relatively safe things like heaters being left on but then leave the genuinely hazardous monitor running.

And leaving a computer running for a year creates as much greenhouse gas pollution as driving a medium sized car about 4000 Km. To put that another way, if every house in Australia leaves one computer running 24/7 then that will take the entire output of a reasonably large coal-fired or nuclear power station or twice the output of the entire Snowy Hydro scheme. So, at the risk of being political, anyone who finds it too time consuming to wait for the computer to boot in the morning would be outright hipocritical (sp?) to complain about rising greenhouse gas emissions or the inevitable building of nuclear power stations in Australia.

If you MUST leave the computer running then at least switch off the monitor when it's not needed. This applies equally to LCD and CRT monitors (that is, all computer monitors). The monitor is responsible for about 75% of the energy use. Laser printers on standby are big guzzlers too.

Personally, 30 seconds isn't that valuable to me anyway. Pretty unusual that I don't have something else to do while the computer boots up so I switch it off at night.