Electrical advice

[Milk Man]

Youre gonna hate me.
Bought a simpson 2 year ago for $600 and its a 6.5kg. Does get lint here and there but it goes like a dream and has a dial (not those new fangled screen doovers) so even I (22yr old male!) can work it no probs. If you can get one with a kirby motor I reckon that would be the pick. We have a fridge about 30yrs old and it still chills like brand new; frame will rust away to nothing before kirby motor wears out.
Good luck.

 

[visual]

Milk man,
Asko was just here looking at my washing machine,guess what! motor needs replacing,seals have been leaking for a while,hence the motor burning out and the timing module also gone!apparently they will be in touch to work out a compromise.The only compromise I will accept is the machine fixed under warranty,or else I will go out buy a lemon tree and stick the machine under it.Seeing that this is my fifth machine in seven years I should have a nice collection in my front garden in no time.

 

[Happy]

Visual,
Are you sure you hook it up to 240 Volts? (Only kidding )

 

[visual]

Happy,
dont make fun of me
those morons at Harvey Norman already had a field day trying to tell me that not only I could be crazy(or am crazy)but maybe my house didnt suit their washing machine!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see myself as a bit of a crusader for washing machine consumersLOL
They take my money I want something in return a washing machine I can use for at least 10 years after all I had no problems operating my simpson for 13 years with absolutely no problems.

 

[Knobby22]

Is it a digital model?
If so, you may have something in your house or street that is creating thumps (surges). Do you live near a factory or major substation?

I would install a surge divertor onto your switchboad.

 

[Smurf1976]

Ok, let's see if we can sort this out.

I'll have some more questions but for now, what were the faults with each of the washing machines (or what were the symptoms if you don't know what the actual fault was)?

Are the washing machines in question top loading or front loading?

Have they all been the same make and model or are different brands involved?

Once I know the answers to the above I'll have a couple of other questions to ask.

 

[visual]

smurf
3 brands
both types
top loaders
excessive vibrations, linting, even on highest cycle things could be squeezed by hand.
front loaders, excessive vibrations,dont rinse properly even with minimal soap
safety features broke down after short time, shredding of clothes,
current motor burned out, mould in the drum, timing module dead, seals leaked hence motor burning out, leaked from top, front of machine rusted.

 

[Julia]

Just to divert back to my original question - no disrespect to problems with washing machines which sound ghastly - I eventually got three written quotes for changing pool equipment to Tariff 33. Two were around $400 and one was $800!!!

Once again demonstrates the need to get several quotes.

Is it relevant that the two at about $400 were from older (?more experienced) chaps and the $800 one from someone much younger?

Julia

 

[Smurf1976]

Just to divert back to my original question - no disrespect to problems with washing machines which sound ghastly - I eventually got three written quotes for changing pool equipment to Tariff 33. Two were around $400 and one was $800!!!

Once again demonstrates the need to get several quotes.

Is it relevant that the two at about $400 were from older (?more experienced) chaps and the $800 one from someone much younger?

Julia

Not having seen the specific switchboard it's hard to be certain but the $400 doesn't sound unreasonable and you ought to recover that in lower power bills in a reasonable period of time. This is especially so because the Queensland Government is about to change the charging method for the continuous supply (non off-peak) tariff which will have the effect of increasing costs for larger users. So off-peak makes a lot of sense.

As for the experience bit, the older ones are probably more conscious of the fact that you'll probably need an electrician for something at some point in the future so they hope to get future business by charging reasonably and maintaining a decent reputation. A lot of work in the electrical trades comes about through word of mouth recommendations too and if they have been around a while then they would be very aware of this. The younger one probably isn't thinking as long term.

 

[Smurf1976]

smurf
3 brands
both types
top loaders
excessive vibrations, linting, even on highest cycle things could be squeezed by hand.
front loaders, excessive vibrations,dont rinse properly even with minimal soap
safety features broke down after short time, shredding of clothes,
current motor burned out, mould in the drum, timing module dead, seals leaked hence motor burning out, leaked from top, front of machine rusted.

OK. A few questions... (appologies if you have already worked through these but I need to know the answers to try and work out what's going on here.)

1. I assume that you are connected to grid electricity (as opposed to generating your own in a remote area)?

2. Is the water from a town mains supply? If not, where is the water supplied from? (Yes this IS relevant but not for the reasons salespeople will tell you.)

3. Is the floor in the laundry stable and IS IT LEVEL?

4. What water temperature have you been using for the wash cycle?

5. What sort of hot water heater does the house have? (Or have the machines been connected to cold water only?) Does it have a tank or is it a continuous flow (instantaneous) system? What energy source(s) heat the water - gas, electricity, wood, solar etc? Yes this question is relevant!

6. The timer module which failed. Was that an electonic one or was it electromechanical (dial that turns)?

 

[visual]

smurf,
floor is level,
timing module is dial,
mainly wash in cold water except under instructions from them when i did numerous hot washes to try and flush out the mould
connected to cold water machine heats up water,
and by the way as of this morning Asko still havent contacted me for the compromise so i`m assuming that seeing that the fault cant be pinned on me they are now going to ignore me!
grid electricity

 

[money tree]

get hold of a multimeter and check for undervoltage or overvoltage. either of these can cause parts to wear out fast. 240v is normal but if you had less than 230 or more than 250 be worried.

overvoltage is something only energex can fix.

undervoltage may be something originating at your pole (ie energex), or it could be due to the voltage drop from a long run of cable. Is it a long way from the laundry to the meterbox?

I would also suggest doing an 'on-load' volt test to see if the volt drop occurs when you use a lot of current.

if you cant get hold of a multimeter then get a sparky out to test.

I once got called out to a house that had a lot of globes 'exploding'. Did a test and found 255v. energex fixed it in the end.

 

[Smurf1976]

smurf,
floor is level,
timing module is dial,
mainly wash in cold water except under instructions from them when i did numerous hot washes to try and flush out the mould
connected to cold water machine heats up water,
and by the way as of this morning Asko still havent contacted me for the compromise so i`m assuming that seeing that the fault cant be pinned on me they are now going to ignore me!
grid electricity

Regarding the mould, rust and the timer failing I am wondering if your laundry is excessively humid? Where are you located - is it a high humidity region? Also, is the area close to the sea and/or subject to significant air pollution / dust? Is there a tumble dryer in the laundry and if so, is this externally vented or does it discharge hot air into the room?

Rinsing. I assume that you are using detergent and not old-fashioned soap flakes and that the detergent is one recommended for front loaders? Also, is the water supply of good quality (OK to drink straight from the tap)?

Depending on the actual machine and its operation, rinsing problems can be caused by lack of adequate water pressure and/or flow. Have you checked that the stop tap to the house is fully open and likewise is the tap in the laundry turned on fully? Turning the tap down to avoid water hammer is generally NOT a good idea and will cause rinsing problems unless you are sure that the machine doesn't use a spray rinse as part of the cycle. Get a proper anti-hammer device instead if water hammer is a big problem.

Ragarding the motor, damaged clothes etc. we need to check the voltage. Assuming that you don't have a proper meter to check with, we can do a reasonable test using an electric kettle. First though I need to know what the element rating of your kettle is and how much water it holds. The element rating should be stamped on the bottom and will say something like "240V 2400W" or "230V 2200W". Using a measured quantity of water that has been stored in the fridge (so we know roughly what temperature it is to start with) just time how long it takes to boil (actually boiling, not just hot). Post the results including power rating (both V and W that it says on the kettle base), quantity of water boiled and how long it took and I'll work out if the voltage is reasonable. Boil as much water as the kettle holds and try to be as accurate as possible with the timing.

I assume that you are not having unusual problems with other appliances?

 

[visual]

Guys,thanks for your feed back,
no to all your questions,
soap ,that for front loaders,
problems with other appliances ,no

Have had all components measured with multimeter,all measure correctly.

water tested by citywest(who found being called out amusing,apparently they get lots of these calls for exactly the reason I called them out for)

In the end my personal opinion is that these faults occur because of poor design and cheap manufacturing.

Since these problems raised it`s ugly head again ,i have once again being trawling the internet you would be amazed at how many people experience
what i`m exsperiencing,so the only conclusion i can come up with is shoddy products.

And smurf regarding your questions surely had my problems being taken seriously by the manufacturer by now the problem would`ve being solved,instead all i`ve experienced is stonewalling and plain bad service.

 

[money tree]

mahahahaha

timing how long it takes to boil....

what you smokin smurf?

there are heaps of variables that could affect the result.

plastic kettle or metal?

how long since last boil?

is the thermostat accurate to 100 degrees? (+/- 10% expected)

is the water measurement accurate?

room temperature?

the input water temperature? (fridge could be 2 - 8 degrees)

is the element accurate to 2400w? (+/- 10% expected)

 

[Smurf1976]

In the end my personal opinion is that these faults occur because of poor design and cheap manufacturing.

Since these problems raised it`s ugly head again ,i have once again being trawling the internet you would be amazed at how many people experience
what i`m exsperiencing,so the only conclusion i can come up with is shoddy products.

And smurf regarding your questions surely had my problems being taken seriously by the manufacturer by now the problem would`ve being solved,instead all i`ve experienced is stonewalling and plain bad service.

I think you've got a dud machine by the sounds of it. The wonders of globalisation and the race to the bottom with both price and quality.

And for those who heard about the Crown Casino fire. Yep! Yet another TV fire... How totally unsurprising.

 

[Smurf1976]

mahahahaha

timing how long it takes to boil....

what you smokin smurf?

there are heaps of variables that could affect the result.

plastic kettle or metal?

how long since last boil?

is the thermostat accurate to 100 degrees? (+/- 10% expected)

is the water measurement accurate?

room temperature?

the input water temperature? (fridge could be 2 - 8 degrees)

is the element accurate to 2400w? (+/- 10% expected)

1. Plastic versus metal. Assuming the kettle is full as I stated the thermal mass of the kettle itself is relatively minor.

2. How long since last boil. As I said, you start with cold water from the fridge so that's not an issue. Of course you empty all the water from the kettle before filling it and allow it to cool to room temperature.

3. Thermostat. I assume that you know how kettle thermostats work? With most designs unless the water boils and produces steam it will not switch off so there's no real risk of switching off at less than 100 degrees and you can't heat the water above 100 anyway otherwise it is a vapour and won't stay in the kettle. Not a relevant point.

4. Water measurement. You use a measuring jug to get an accurate reading. The measuring jug might be wrong but then so could any multimeter. Most homes have a reasonably accurate measuring jug in the kitchen.

5. Room temperature. Assuming that the kettle boils fairly quickly there won't be much heat loss so it will only have a minor effect at the likely range of room temperatures. I was assuming it wouldn't be minus 10 degrees etc.

6. Input water temperature. If the fridge is above 5 degrees the milk will be going off in practice so that should be fairly obvious. The error in the voltage measurement would be about 2% on account of fridge temperature variation between just above zero and 5 degrees.

7. Element. In practice the tolerance of mass produced water heating elements isn't that large. I've measured quite a few for various reasons and generally found them to be pretty close. Space heaters are another matter...

Overall the result ought to be accurate enough for this purpose. Any recent appliance should operate quite nicely on a 230 Volt supply which if you assume maximum voltage drops in the distrbution network, consumers mains and final sub-circuit means it can go as low as 195V. On the other hand anything up to 253V is perfectly acceptable as I'm sure you are aware. In fact some electricity distributors intentionally send out 253V or even 254V from distribution transformers. If you live next to one then that's what you'll get.

Now, if the kettle is rated at 240V 2400W then at 253V it ought to raise 2 litres of water from 4 degrees to 100 degrees in 5 minutes exactly. At 240V it ought to take 5 mins 33 sec. At 230V it should take 6 mins 3 sec. At 195V it should take 8 minutes 25 sec.

Since no problems with light bulbs etc. were mentioned it strongly suggests that if there were any problem with voltage then it would be under voltage rather than over voltage. Now, if the kettle took more than 5 but less than 7 minutes to boil then allowing for the thermal mass of the kettle itself, heat loss to the room etc that would suggest that the voltage is somewhere in the order of 220-250V and at this level any recently built appliance shouldn't be experiencing problems. Much longer or any less and some investigation would be warranted.

I contend that my imporvised method is sufficiently accurate for the purpose given that I had assumed a more accurate method of measurement was not readily available. Obviously it's not perfect but it's at least as accurate as the speedo in you car and yet that is used for law enforcement.

I'll conduct the experiment myself and post the results for both the kettle and measured voltage.

 

[visual]

ok,
I`ll keep you posted on end result

 

[money tree]

we use to have a plastic kettle. when it corroded, we bought a metal kettle with element underneath. we noticed the kettle was taking a lot longer to boil so I checked the elements, both were 2400w. I put it down to the fact the metal kettle absorbed a lot more ambient heat. Plus, the fact that the element was not in direct contact with the water meant that the element had to first heat the kettle.

 

[Kauri]

i have never had any trouble with my kettle .. (see avatar)