Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.9%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.8%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.9%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.2%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    196
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SirRumpole said:
Extra taxes will probably land on consumers as usual.

How about putting company tax up 1 percent ?
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I was talking about the average family car, so I assumed that’s what you were talking about.

but as I said either way it would only raise rego by like $10, which was what my original point was, all I was trying to say was that a gradual decrease in fuel excise revenue could be offset with incremental increases to rego.

If you want to fixate on part of my argument while ignoring my actual point go ahead.
 
Value Collector said:
I was talking about the average family car, so I assumed that’s what you were talking about.

but as I said either way it would only raise rego by like $10, which was what my original point was, all I was trying to say was that a gradual decrease in fuel excise revenue could be offset with incremental increases to rego.

If you want to fixate on part of my argument while ignoring my actual point go ahead.
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Just fixated on your bs
 
Value Collector said:
I was talking about the average family car, so I assumed that’s what you were talking about.

but as I said either way it would only raise rego by like $10, which was what my original point was, all I was trying to say was that a gradual decrease in fuel excise revenue could be offset with incremental increases to rego.

If you want to fixate on part of my argument while ignoring my actual point go ahead.
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I don't think an increase in rego of $10 would in any way balance the decrease in excise revenue. There would more likely have to be some sort of distance tax levied on EV's which would mean monitoring of your movements and the government would know everywhere you went.

Are you happy with that ?
 
SirRumpole said:
I don't think an increase in rego of $10 would in any way balance the decrease in excise revenue. There would more likely have to be some sort of distance tax levied on EV's which would mean monitoring of your movements and the government would know everywhere you went.

Are you happy with that ?
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I think they already do, most people carry a mobile phone.
But as you say a GPS will be embedded in the ECU and probably monitor distance travelled, will be the only fair way of doing it.
But as people have mentioned, there will probably be exemptions, to stop a skewed outcome where people are required to use their car for work.
 
SirRumpole said:
I don't think an increase in rego of $10 would in any way balance the decrease in excise revenue. There would more likely have to be some sort of distance tax levied on EV's which would mean monitoring of your movements and the government would know everywhere you went.

Are you happy with that ?
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I said a $10 increase in rego for every 1% of the vehicle fleet that transitions.

I would be happy with any mileage type tax system that got applied to vehicles to compensate reductions in fuel excise.

but not until a large amount of the cars are electric, until then I think it’s better to not tax Ev’s to try and encourage faster adoption.

Also as I said keeping the burden a bit higher on the pollution generating cars is probably a good idea.
 
Well anyway the EV is a great introduction to the market and I'd like to see some industry here that takes advantage of that market, whether it be producing whole vehicles, batteries or spare parts.

There could be a battle between battery EV's and hydrogen fuel cells, but the capacity to charge EV's from personal solar panels gives them the advantage at the moment and may be a disincentive to developing a hydrogen network.

Do you have a gas guzzler as well VC ? I think this is the way a lot of households will go. I doubt if most would rely just on an EV.
 
SirRumpole said:
Do you have a gas guzzler as well VC ? I think this is the way a lot of households will go. I doubt if most would rely just on an EV.
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Nope, the Model 3 is our only car, we are a single car household, always have been.

I couldn’t imagine ever getting a petrol car again, the Tesla is just so much more convenient, you don’t realize how much of a hassle petrol stations are until you don’t have to go to them anymore, and instead just top up the car in your garage and start each day with a full “tank” (so to speak).
 
Time for some to close their eyes and put their hands over their ears.:D
Running an electric car may end up pretty dear, unless you have the ability to charge at home.:rolleyes:

https://thedriven.io/2020/01/20/nor...s-make-ev-charging-prices-higher-than-petrol/
From the article:

A hike in electric car charging rates by European electric car fast charging network Ionity has drawn a backlash from the Norwegian electric car association Norsk Elbilforenig, which says the new rates make powering an electric vehicle more expensive than fuelling a similar petrol or diesel car.

On Friday Ionity, a joint venture between BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Ford and Volkswagen including Audi and Porsche, announced a new pricing structure that will see the previously fixed rate of 8 euros ($A12.90 converted) replaced on January 31, 2020 with a new price-per-kWh rate
Ionity’s new rate of 0.79 euros/kWh will see Norwegians pay around NOK7.80 (gross price in country-specific currency), which becomes NOK 8.40/kWh ($A1.37/kWh converted) after Ionity has added an additional fee.
This fixed rate meant that owners of electric vehicles (EVs) with larger, long range batteries gained a pricing advantage over those owning EVs with smaller batteries, who paid more per kilowatt hour.

The announcement was met with numerous negative reactions that caused one follower of the network on Facebook to comment: “This is messed up, daylight robbery!!! The price is absurd. My BMW i3 winter consumption is 20 kwh per 100km , so 16€ per 100km. I think that a BMW X5 is cheaper to drive than that.”
By comparison, electric vehicle fast chargers in Australia cost between $A0.35-0.40/kWh, although a recent add-on $A0.25/minute rate by Evie Networks was also met in early January with concerns about fairness for owners of electric vehicles that charge at slower rates.

Last time I looked at the RAC charger in Mandurah, it was 45c/kwh
 
sptrawler said:
Last time I looked at the RAC charger in Mandurah, it was 45c/kwh
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I think thats got to be a weird local situation there.

The Tesla chargers are 42c/kwh.
Charging at home is about 25c/kwh (depending on plan cheaper for off peak)
Charging using your solar is free (or what ever your buyback rate is if you want to think of it like that)

Going by my real world comparisons between my old car and my Tesla, 1 litre of petrol is equal to about 1.2 KWH of electricity, So even using the grossly overpriced charging prices in the article charging your EV would only be slightly higher price than Petrol.

Not to mention most people rarely use public chargers, so most of your driving would be based on the cheap home charging rates, and it would just be the odd road trip where you have to fork up the expensive rates.

------------

All in all though, I think that company in the article, (which is owned by ICE car makers) will price them selves out of the market.
 
And this has relevance, for battery configurations.
https://www.mining.com/teslas-china-surprise-big-blow-for-cobalt-nickel-price-bulls/
"The world’s largest electric carmaker is shifting some production of its most popular model away from batteries that contain nickel and cobalt."

In a surprise move, China’s top battery manufacturer CATL will supply Tesla with lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries for its Model 3 production at its newly built $2 billion factory outside Shanghai. The Model 3 is Tesla’s most popular, and the US-made version uses the company’s nickel-cobalt-aluminum (NCA) cathode chemistry. Most other automakers favour nickel-cobalt-manganese (NCM) cathode chemistries.
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LFP batteries are cheaper than batteries using NCA and NCM chemistries but lack the energy density, reducing driving range. LFP batteries power almost the entire electric bus fleet in China and are popular for smaller city runabout vehicles where range is not an issue.
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Dona Ferentes said:
And this has relevance, for battery configurations.
https://www.mining.com/teslas-china-surprise-big-blow-for-cobalt-nickel-price-bulls/
"The world’s largest electric carmaker is shifting some production of its most popular model away from batteries that contain nickel and cobalt."
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Except for the fact they have less energy density, which means less distance, which means range anxiety.
Which is the biggest problem, with the uptake of BE vehicles.:rolleyes:
Could be down ramping to collapse nickel, cobalt prices and pick up cheap miners?
Wow no one would do that.:rolleyes:
 
Dona Ferentes said:
The second quote did point that out. It's about range, and suitable for certain situations.

Also, more at (haven't drilled to the Reuters link yet)
https://electrek-co.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/electrek.co/2020/02/18/tesla-cheaper-chinese-lithium-iron-phosphate-batteries-report/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE=#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://electrek.co/2020/02/18/tesla-cheaper-chinese-lithium-iron-phosphate-batteries-report/
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The biggest threat to nickel, cobalt IMO is Lithium/air, the problem with lithium ion/nickel/cobalt whatever is the charge rate.

What is required is a battery/capacitor hybrid, that is fast charge slow discharge, that is the future of electric cars IMO

Lithium/air is heading in that direction, also solid state batteries, so at the moment nickel/cobalt is giving the best energy density in relation to charge rate.

China wants to keep ramping up manufacturing, while keeping the USA on side, so electric cars is the next frontier.

Will China go for cheap and cheerfull? against the USA going more expensive, but practical? who will sell more? GM has abandoned RHD so it looks like a LHD head to head. LOL
Time will tell.
In reality no one bought a second nickel metal hydride battery operated drill, because the batteries were useless, and that will be the same with electric cars, if your car can do 1,000klm on a charge, it will be the car to have no one will care about its 0-100klm time.
Distance will be the performance measure of BEV cars IMO.
As I said, it is only what I think and some will take exception to it.
 
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